Haaretz: How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State

Darkman00

VIP Member
Aug 3, 2018
559
70
70
How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State

A look at the map suggests the two-state solution could be achieved with a minimal evacuation of Jews from the West Bank


By Ori Mark Aug 18, 2018

6 comments


Next month will see the 25th anniversary of the first Oslo accord, while soon Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will mark a decade in power – round dates that give us a chance to examine in-the-box thinking. The conventional view is that this land is full of settlers, that the right is taking advantage of its long stretch in power to deepen its hold, and that the two-state solution is dying. But is all of that really so?

To address this issue, Haaretz analyzed the settlers’ population dispersal in the West Bank and compared the number of settlers in strategic centers on the eve of Netanyahu’s ascent to power and their number now. The examination revolved around two questions: 1) How many settlers were added to the isolated settlements over the past decade? 2) What is the minimum number of settlers who must evacuated in order to divide the land and draw a border between Israel and Palestine?

The conventional wisdom on the right is that half a million settlers have created an irreversible situation and that the partition of historical Palestine and the establishment of a Palestinian state are no longer achievable. So often has that mantra been sounded that many groups on the left have started to adopt it.

Just four months ago, the novelist A.B. Yehoshua wrote in Haaretz, “But above all, the two-state solution is fading because of the constantly expanding settlements in Judea and Samaria. Indeed, according to many experts who are familiar with the demographic and geographic reality, it is no longer possible to divide the Land of Israel into two separate sovereign states.”

Yehoshua isn’t the only one to adopt this notion. Haaretz columnist Gideon Levy is awed by the number of settlers, regardless of where they’re concentrated. In an October 2015 op-ed, he said the two-state solution “has been missed. Those who wanted a Jewish state should have implemented it while it was still possible. Those who set it on fire, deliberately or by doing nothing, must now look directly and honestly at the new reality.”

Long arms

But Yehoshua and Levy are both wrong. Let’s look at the map. Most of the Israeli suggestions for resolving the conflict have included the territorial arms that extend deep into the Palestinian parts of the West Bank, which would necessitate the annexation to Israel of the settlement blocs. Two such arms exist in the center of the country, one to Ariel and the other to Kedumim, via Karnei Shomron. From Jerusalem an arm was extended eastward to Ma’aleh Adumim, southward to Gush Etzion and northward to Beit El.

1337230936.png

The settlements that would need to be evacuated to make way for a Palestinian state.
At the Camp David summit in 2000, Israel suggested extending a long arm from Beit She’an to Jerusalem so that the Jordan Valley would remain inside Israel. Another idea was to lease for a long period a stretch of land that would include several of the Hebron Hills settlements and Kiryat Arba.

If these arms are lopped off, what would remain is a Palestinian area that enjoys territorial contiguity and includes 33 isolated settlements. The population of these settlements, which are completely detached from the settlement blocs, is listed at 46,000, meaning 9,800 families at most – a number comparable to a large neighborhood in Israel. More families live in Jerusalem’s Pisgat Ze’ev neighborhood alone.

The evacuation of 33 isolated settlements would not be enough to attain the Palestinians’ consent to end the conflict; a final-status accord would call for complex solutions. But it would be enough to demarcate a border between Israel and Palestine, unilaterally or in an agreement for a limited period.

In the past decade, the right has enfeebled the law-enforcement system, fought the media and incited against the left and the Arabs, but when it comes to settlement deep within Palestinian territory, it hasn’t achieved a strategic change. The Netanyahu governments have indeed diverted budgets to paving roads that will hamper partition, and the planning institutions are working away. But the growth rate in the isolated settlements under Netanyahu has been 400 families a year – not a number that shifts tectonic plates.

How is it that the right boasts about hundreds of thousands of settlers, while actually it would be possible to divide the land with the evacuation of 9,800 families? There are two explanations. One is that the vast majority of the settlements were built near the Green Line in order to expand the waists of Israel’s two metropolitan centers, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. The large settlement concentrations lie east of Tel Aviv (near the separation barrier) and around Jerusalem – in Gush Etzion, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Route 443 area.

The second explanation is that the largest increase in the number of settlers has been in the neighborhoods of East Jerusalem and in the ultra-Orthodox cities of Modi’in Ilit and Betar Ilit, adjacent to the Green Line, which will remain part of Israel in every scenario, and which are thus irrelevant to the partition issue. A decade ago, the number of settlers in these two towns stood at 73,000; today this number tops 130,000. This neither improves nor reduces the prospects of a border being drawn between Israel and Palestine.

718213810.jpg

The West Bank settlement of Karnei Shomron. Moti Milrod

Minuscule growth


To scuttle partition, the right must increase the number of settlers who live in the areas between the Palestinian cities, thereby precluding territorial contiguity. But the map shows that the right-wing governments have left whole regions, in both the north and south of the West Bank, almost free of settlers.

After the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and northern West Bank in 2005, only four settlements remain in the triangle between Jenin, Nablus and Tul Karm – Shavei Shomron, Hermesh, Einav and Mevo Dotan. One might have expected Netanyahu and Naftali Bennett’s Habayit Hayehudi party to want to beef up Israel’s hold in this area. But during the past decade these settlements have grown by a minuscule number, just 140 families.

A similar situation exists in the southern West Bank. Between the southern approaches of Bethlehem, running east of the settlement of Efrat, and the northern approaches of Hebron, there is only one settlement, Karmei Tzur. In the past 10 years this strategic settlement has grown by only about 80 families.

Another tactic for scuttling partition has been to seize the hills around metropolitan Palestine and surround them with Jewish settlements. That tactic was partially applied around all the West Bank’s big cities. Thus Elon Moreh, Itamar and Bracha are settlements that were established around Nablus. Together with the tactical reason for intensifying construction in them, the government had another reason to develop them: Itamar and Elon Moreh were the targets of two of the critical terrorist attacks in the past decade (the massacre of the Fogel family, in 2011, and the murder of the Henkin couple, four years later). Netanyahu and the right-wing ministers routinely declare that terror will be answered with construction. But declarations are one thing and actions another. In the past 10 years, only 350 new families have joined those three settlements.

The maps and numbers leave no room for doubt: When it comes to construction in the settlements, Netanyahu is like an old refrigerator – freezing almost everything and making a lot of noise.


Source: How many settlers need to be evacuated to make way for a Palestinian state
 
Why do they have to be moved? They can be given the choice of staying and becoming citizens of the new Palestinian state.
 
The two state solution has become the "Zombie solution" or the "Walking Dead solution".

Every couple of months it is declared dead just to be resurrected a few days later in one form or another under a slightly different territorial configuration.

You have at least 2 generations of westerners raised with the obsession that Palestine must be divided and we all know how hard it is to get rid of old habits, mindsets and ways of thinking.

It's comical but perfectly comprehensible.
 
Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
 
RE: How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State
※→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

In theory, no relocation is required. (But I believe that is over optimistic and unrealistic given the present climate.)

Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Your arguments over time have convinced me :)
(COMMENT)

Depending on Palestinian Law (the Palestinian View) at the time the question actually rises, it should be the case that the status quo should be maintained with only the nationality issue being important.

The Jewish Settlers need to determine what they want out of the arrangement. If the settlers want to maintain the protection of Israel, then they need to relocate Israeli sovereign territory.

IF the current Arab Palestinian decree (no Israelis in Palestine) is maintained, THEN the Jews must switch to another religious following - or - they must relocate.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
RE: How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State
※→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

In theory, no relocation is required. (But I believe that is over optimistic and unrealistic given the present climate.)

Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Your arguments over time have convinced me :)
(COMMENT)

Depending on Palestinian Law (the Palestinian View) at the time the question actually rises, it should be the case that the status quo should be maintained with only the nationality issue being important.

The Jewish Settlers need to determine what they want out of the arrangement. If the settlers want to maintain the protection of Israel, then they need to relocate Israeli sovereign territory.

IF the current Arab Palestinian decree (no Israelis in Palestine) is maintained, THEN the Jews must switch to another religious following - or - they must relocate.

Most Respectfully,
R
Why would they have to switch religions? Only citizenship.
 
Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.


"Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something..."




I guess I live in some world…. there are people that need to be "forcibly removed:"



[Palestinian] Terrorists



The Palestinian part is irrelevant to me. The terrorist part is relevant. Terrorists can't have their own state.

…and they [both sides, palestinian terrorists A & terrorists B] ….not interested in a 5-cease fire !



Gruuummmble, Grrrr
kites!condondoms!kites!condoms!​







No state for you!
 
Is there anyone who disagrees that Palestinian are their own worst enemies by their own bad thoughts, words & deeds?
 
E: How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State
※→ Coyote, et al,

IF the settler is no longer resident in sovereign Israeli territory, THEN they are not protected by Israel.
IF the settler adopts Islam as the principle belief, THEN they are no longer Jewish.

Why would they have to switch religions? Only citizenship.
(COMMENT)

IF the resident is no longer Israeli protected and a follower of Islam, THEN the resident no longer falls under the restrictive (Arab Palestinian) edicts.

Muslims would be unfavorably looked upon IF they massacre fellow believers and followers of Islam.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
In theory, no relocation is required. (But I believe that is over optimistic and unrealistic given the present climate.)


Exactly. It IS unrealistic at the moment. But that should be what we are aiming for.

If the Arab Palestinians are incapable of having a State where Jews and former Israeli citizens can live with full equality and mutual respect, then they are not ready to have a State. If they believe that Arabs and Jews must be separated in order to live in peace, then they are not ready to have a State. If they believe that their State is so fragile that a single Jew or former Israeli is a threat, then they are not ready to have a State.

If the Arabs are trying to sell us on continued "resistance" (terrorism), then they are not ready to have a State. If the Arabs are trying to insist on a right of return for themselves to Israel but not for the Jewish people to Palestine, then they are not ready to have a State.
 
How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State

A look at the map suggests the two-state solution could be achieved with a minimal evacuation of Jews from the West Bank


By Ori Mark Aug 18, 2018

6 comments


Next month will see the 25th anniversary of the first Oslo accord, while soon Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will mark a decade in power – round dates that give us a chance to examine in-the-box thinking. The conventional view is that this land is full of settlers, that the right is taking advantage of its long stretch in power to deepen its hold, and that the two-state solution is dying. But is all of that really so?

To address this issue, Haaretz analyzed the settlers’ population dispersal in the West Bank and compared the number of settlers in strategic centers on the eve of Netanyahu’s ascent to power and their number now. The examination revolved around two questions: 1) How many settlers were added to the isolated settlements over the past decade? 2) What is the minimum number of settlers who must evacuated in order to divide the land and draw a border between Israel and Palestine?

The conventional wisdom on the right is that half a million settlers have created an irreversible situation and that the partition of historical Palestine and the establishment of a Palestinian state are no longer achievable. So often has that mantra been sounded that many groups on the left have started to adopt it.

Just four months ago, the novelist A.B. Yehoshua wrote in Haaretz, “But above all, the two-state solution is fading because of the constantly expanding settlements in Judea and Samaria. Indeed, according to many experts who are familiar with the demographic and geographic reality, it is no longer possible to divide the Land of Israel into two separate sovereign states.”

Yehoshua isn’t the only one to adopt this notion. Haaretz columnist Gideon Levy is awed by the number of settlers, regardless of where they’re concentrated. In an October 2015 op-ed, he said the two-state solution “has been missed. Those who wanted a Jewish state should have implemented it while it was still possible. Those who set it on fire, deliberately or by doing nothing, must now look directly and honestly at the new reality.”

Long arms

But Yehoshua and Levy are both wrong. Let’s look at the map. Most of the Israeli suggestions for resolving the conflict have included the territorial arms that extend deep into the Palestinian parts of the West Bank, which would necessitate the annexation to Israel of the settlement blocs. Two such arms exist in the center of the country, one to Ariel and the other to Kedumim, via Karnei Shomron. From Jerusalem an arm was extended eastward to Ma’aleh Adumim, southward to Gush Etzion and northward to Beit El.

1337230936.png

The settlements that would need to be evacuated to make way for a Palestinian state.
At the Camp David summit in 2000, Israel suggested extending a long arm from Beit She’an to Jerusalem so that the Jordan Valley would remain inside Israel. Another idea was to lease for a long period a stretch of land that would include several of the Hebron Hills settlements and Kiryat Arba.

If these arms are lopped off, what would remain is a Palestinian area that enjoys territorial contiguity and includes 33 isolated settlements. The population of these settlements, which are completely detached from the settlement blocs, is listed at 46,000, meaning 9,800 families at most – a number comparable to a large neighborhood in Israel. More families live in Jerusalem’s Pisgat Ze’ev neighborhood alone.

The evacuation of 33 isolated settlements would not be enough to attain the Palestinians’ consent to end the conflict; a final-status accord would call for complex solutions. But it would be enough to demarcate a border between Israel and Palestine, unilaterally or in an agreement for a limited period.

In the past decade, the right has enfeebled the law-enforcement system, fought the media and incited against the left and the Arabs, but when it comes to settlement deep within Palestinian territory, it hasn’t achieved a strategic change. The Netanyahu governments have indeed diverted budgets to paving roads that will hamper partition, and the planning institutions are working away. But the growth rate in the isolated settlements under Netanyahu has been 400 families a year – not a number that shifts tectonic plates.

How is it that the right boasts about hundreds of thousands of settlers, while actually it would be possible to divide the land with the evacuation of 9,800 families? There are two explanations. One is that the vast majority of the settlements were built near the Green Line in order to expand the waists of Israel’s two metropolitan centers, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. The large settlement concentrations lie east of Tel Aviv (near the separation barrier) and around Jerusalem – in Gush Etzion, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Route 443 area.

The second explanation is that the largest increase in the number of settlers has been in the neighborhoods of East Jerusalem and in the ultra-Orthodox cities of Modi’in Ilit and Betar Ilit, adjacent to the Green Line, which will remain part of Israel in every scenario, and which are thus irrelevant to the partition issue. A decade ago, the number of settlers in these two towns stood at 73,000; today this number tops 130,000. This neither improves nor reduces the prospects of a border being drawn between Israel and Palestine.

718213810.jpg

The West Bank settlement of Karnei Shomron. Moti Milrod

Minuscule growth


To scuttle partition, the right must increase the number of settlers who live in the areas between the Palestinian cities, thereby precluding territorial contiguity. But the map shows that the right-wing governments have left whole regions, in both the north and south of the West Bank, almost free of settlers.

After the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and northern West Bank in 2005, only four settlements remain in the triangle between Jenin, Nablus and Tul Karm – Shavei Shomron, Hermesh, Einav and Mevo Dotan. One might have expected Netanyahu and Naftali Bennett’s Habayit Hayehudi party to want to beef up Israel’s hold in this area. But during the past decade these settlements have grown by a minuscule number, just 140 families.

A similar situation exists in the southern West Bank. Between the southern approaches of Bethlehem, running east of the settlement of Efrat, and the northern approaches of Hebron, there is only one settlement, Karmei Tzur. In the past 10 years this strategic settlement has grown by only about 80 families.

Another tactic for scuttling partition has been to seize the hills around metropolitan Palestine and surround them with Jewish settlements. That tactic was partially applied around all the West Bank’s big cities. Thus Elon Moreh, Itamar and Bracha are settlements that were established around Nablus. Together with the tactical reason for intensifying construction in them, the government had another reason to develop them: Itamar and Elon Moreh were the targets of two of the critical terrorist attacks in the past decade (the massacre of the Fogel family, in 2011, and the murder of the Henkin couple, four years later). Netanyahu and the right-wing ministers routinely declare that terror will be answered with construction. But declarations are one thing and actions another. In the past 10 years, only 350 new families have joined those three settlements.

The maps and numbers leave no room for doubt: When it comes to construction in the settlements, Netanyahu is like an old refrigerator – freezing almost everything and making a lot of noise.


Source: How many settlers need to be evacuated to make way for a Palestinian state

The only time Haaretz will allow facts - when it has an anti-Jewish twist.
There won't be a word about the Arab demand for a totally Jew-free Palestine, because that makes the whole article groundless:



So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew?

"Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state."

Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?

"Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after."

MAEN RASHID AREIKAT
The Palestinian ambassador to Washington


maxresdefault.jpg
 
Why do they have to be moved? They can be given the choice of staying and becoming citizens of the new Palestinian state.



"They can be given the choice of staying an...becoming citizens of the new Palestinian state..."

Salute !



...to the new Palestinian state and citizenship for them !

what about the terrorists ? if terrorists don't see that they're the worst humanity has to offer....they don't belong here:



















 
RE: How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State
※→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

In theory, no relocation is required. (But I believe that is over optimistic and unrealistic given the present climate.)

Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Your arguments over time have convinced me :)
(COMMENT)

Depending on Palestinian Law (the Palestinian View) at the time the question actually rises, it should be the case that the status quo should be maintained with only the nationality issue being important.

The Jewish Settlers need to determine what they want out of the arrangement. If the settlers want to maintain the protection of Israel, then they need to relocate Israeli sovereign territory.

IF the current Arab Palestinian decree (no Israelis in Palestine) is maintained, THEN the Jews must switch to another religious following - or - they must relocate.

Most Respectfully,
R


I'm quiet shocked at how easily these alternatives are presented before 'the Jewish Settlers', forced conversion or exclusion from the heart of the Jewish historic homeland.

This is even more confusing because there's a connotation that this is some centralized movement that has any real part in the govt policy making.
What we've got on the ground is a small group of ideological 'hilltop' activists, with a vast majority of regular citizens, who bought apartments like any other regular citizen in an economically convenient area (Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv).
These people have a wide variety of views, both left and right. Each neighborhood has developed a different level of understanding/cooperation between the Jewish and Arab communities on the ground.

Q.How can a decision by these people have any influence on either of the governments?
Q.Why should they be the ones to decide on any further "land - swaps"... some are ex-Gazans who were evicted a decade ago, now have to sign where further Jews would be banned?

And the most important one - why all the fuss when time is on their side?

This is exactly why 'the Jewish Settlers' are in their own a solution - if there's a Palestinian Arab state in Judea it must have a Jewish minority. If not, and G-d forbid the Israeli govt agrees to that, settlers will be the only sane group on the market,

If they're evicted 'for peace', then it only supports the idea that Jews can learn to swim 'for peace'. For any further constructive discourse there must be settlers who'll ensure a Jewish minority.
 
Last edited:
I am shocked by the ease with which the global community accepts forced transfer of people. Well, if they are Jews anyway.
 
RE: How Many Settlers Need to Be Evacuated to Make Way for a Palestinian State
※→ Coyote, Shusha, et al,

In theory, no relocation is required. (But I believe that is over optimistic and unrealistic given the present climate.)

Not a single person need be forcibly removed from any territory for either state to exist. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Your arguments over time have convinced me :)
(COMMENT)

Depending on Palestinian Law (the Palestinian View) at the time the question actually rises, it should be the case that the status quo should be maintained with only the nationality issue being important.

The Jewish Settlers need to determine what they want out of the arrangement. If the settlers want to maintain the protection of Israel, then they need to relocate Israeli sovereign territory.

IF the current Arab Palestinian decree (no Israelis in Palestine) is maintained, THEN the Jews must switch to another religious following - or - they must relocate.

Most Respectfully,
R
Why would they have to switch religions? Only citizenship.

It’s a lot more complicated then that. Abbas has stated many times no Israelis in Palestine. The majority of Israel’s religious sites are in E. Jerusalem ; the PLO just came out and stated the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall
plus the “ Right of Return” which would eventually make the Jewish people a minority in their own Country
 
A better idea is to evacuate any so-called Palestinians that don't want to be Israeli and recognize that that is part of Israel.
 

One look at this map should immediately dispel the notion that Jewish "settlements" are the obstacle to peace, which is the current myth (read: deliberate falsehood) circulating in the global community. There is clearly a contiguous State available there, with only a tiny minority of Jews/Israelis in what would become Palestine.[/QUOTE]
 

Forum List

Back
Top