H.R. 5741 - "Universal National Service Act"

[JakeStarkey]

Your opinion does not mean anything at all, except to yourself, unless you can support it, which you haven't.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Your opinion does not mean anything at all, except to yourself, unless you can support it, which you haven't.

Nor have you. You just like to pretend you're smart.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have never supported anything, Taz, except run your mouth. You remind me of Divecon that way. Not mean particularly, just bumbling along getting in the way.

 

[JWBooth]

I didn't hear the conservatives bitching when I was getting drafted, folks.

Per usual, your inability to understand your world stems from your inability to remember even recent history.

I was 13 when the draft ended. The only thing on my mind was those growths suddenly appearing under the neighbor girl's shirt.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Unlike Booth who simply is lost all the time.

 

[Bfgrn]

The purpose of the Hitler youth was to totally indoctrinate Germany's young people to accept Hitler's goals and principles and to adore him. To accomplish the goal, all other youth programs were abolished, the education system was completely controlled by the central government as was the media which would be heavily used for additional indoctrination. There was much quite poignant poetry and songs created to adore the Fuehrer that emerged from that era. It all seemed quite harmless, noble, and patriotic at the time.

. . . .Schirach asked Adolf Hitler to allow him to create an independent youth movement. Hitler agreed and Schirach now made several important changes to the way it was organized. In 1936 membership of the HJ was made compulsory for all boys aged 15 and 18. At the same time all other youth organizations were banned.

In 1938 there were 8,000 full-time leaders of the HJ. There were also 720,000 part-time HJ leaders, often schoolteachers, who had been trained in National Socialist principles.

For boys aged between 10 and 14 years Baldur von Schirach set up the Jungvolk. The boys had to learn semaphore, arms drill, and take part in two-day cross-country hikes. They also had to learn Nazi dogma and once they passed the necessary tests they were given a special dagger marked "Blood and Honour". The main objective of the organization was to provide Adolf Hitler with loyal supporters

Once girls reached the age of they could join the Jungmädel. At 14 they entered the Bund Deutscher Mädel. (German Girls' League). This included a year of farm or domestic service. They were trained by female guardians and their overall leader was Gertrud Scholtz-Klink. . . .
Hitler Youth

YouTube-School Children sing mmm mmm mm Barack Hussein Obama

YouTube - BARACK OBAMA KIDS AND HITLER YOUTH SING FOR THEIR LEADER

The Pledge of Allegiance...written by a SOCIALIST...

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850-1898). Bellamy's original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8th issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's discovery of America, conceived by James B. Upham.


Bellamy's original Pledge read:

"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."


Under God Added in 1954
Louis A. Bowman (1872-1959) was the first to initiate the addition of "under God" to the Pledge in 1948. In 1951, the Knights of Columbus, the world's largest Catholic fraternal service organization, in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity. The final successful push came from George MacPherson Docherty, a Scottish-born American Presbyterian minister. Eisenhower signed the bill into law on Flag Day, June 14, 1954


The Bellamy Salute

An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It ended with the arm outstretched and the palm upwards. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, President Franklin D. Roosevelt instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute. This was done when Congress officially adopted the Flag Code on June 22, 1942.
wiki

 

[Intense]

Why NOT a draft? I am generally against conscription, BUT, we are witnessing constant wars with no one paying for them monetarily or personally.

If these neonons and right wing warmongers want war, then WHY shouldn't THEIR kids go fight them...

Robert Kennedy in his last campaign chastised rich kids getting deferments and shirking their responsibilities as citizens.

If there were a draft, maybe we would have a REAL debate and dialogue about war?

What difference did that make During Viet Nam?

ZERO.

We didn't get out of that country because millions of American were protesting.

We got out because we got our asses kicked.

The best book I have read on Viet Nam was "We Were Soldiers" by Joe Galloway/Col. Moore. The book blew the movie away. It is Non-Fiction.

LZ X-Ray

We lost the media war, that is why we left. Lies, misinformation, and fraud.

 

[Foxfyre]

Why NOT a draft? I am generally against conscription, BUT, we are witnessing constant wars with no one paying for them monetarily or personally.

If these neonons and right wing warmongers want war, then WHY shouldn't THEIR kids go fight them...

Robert Kennedy in his last campaign chastised rich kids getting deferments and shirking their responsibilities as citizens.

If there were a draft, maybe we would have a REAL debate and dialogue about war?

What difference did that make During Viet Nam?

ZERO.

We didn't get out of that country because millions of American were protesting.

We got out because we got our asses kicked.

The best book I have read on Viet Nam was "We Were Soldiers" by Joe Galloway/Col. Moore. The book blew the movie away. It is Non-Fiction.

LZ X-Ray

We lost the media war, that is why we left. Lies, misinformation, and fraud.

I think the protests did have something to do with it though. Thomas Sowell once quoted a North Vietnamese general who said that we had them beaten with the Tet offensive. But it was the constant images of anti-war protesters on the television that kept them fighting instead of surrendering. And sure enough we blinked first.

One of the most shameful eras of the U.S. military was the evacuation of Saigon. One spokesperson recalled being on the last helicopter out of the U.S. embassy grounds . He looked down at their South Vietnamese allies in their yellow raincoats waiting for the next chopper to airlift them out too as the Viet Cong were close and would certainly slaughter them in most unpleasant ways.

We didn't send any more choppers for them.

 

[Intense]

The far righties are merely politicizing an issue that they defended for decades. They are easily dismissed.

Justice?
Righteousness?
Inalienable Rights?
Life?
Liberty?
The Pursuit Of Happiness?
The Right To Own Property?
Personal Responsibility?
Personal Accountability?
One Person, One Vote?
2+2+4?
Yes means Yes?
No means No?

..... I couldn't agree more Jake!!!

Strawman argument on the extra points there, Intense. We are talking the draft, but if we were discussing those extra points, the righties fail on most of the issues that you listed. But make a defense for them is you wish, but give us some facts, evidence, analysis, etc., because your opinion is not evidence.

You are the Strawman Jake. Jump through your own hoops, girlyman. You and your power hungry Totalitarian play pals can play fetch with yourselves, I'm not here on your terms, not to satisfy your expectations, Mr. Statist Freak.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why NOT a draft? I am generally against conscription, BUT, we are witnessing constant wars with no one paying for them monetarily or personally.

If these neonons and right wing warmongers want war, then WHY shouldn't THEIR kids go fight them...

Robert Kennedy in his last campaign chastised rich kids getting deferments and shirking their responsibilities as citizens.

If there were a draft, maybe we would have a REAL debate and dialogue about war?

What difference did that make During Viet Nam?

ZERO.

We didn't get out of that country because millions of American were protesting.

We got out because we got our asses kicked.

The best book I have read on Viet Nam was "We Were Soldiers" by Joe Galloway/Col. Moore. The book blew the movie away. It is Non-Fiction.

LZ X-Ray

We lost the media war, that is why we left. Lies, misinformation, and fraud.

You are partially correct but not about deliberate deceit for the most part. The USA mismanaged the war and could not force our "allies" to stop the corruption. The average Viet had no reason to want the USA to stay, period.

 

[Intense]

Great read. Validated claims on false news reporting too.


Stolen Valor

 

[Intense]

General Walt, who wrote three books after retiring from the Marine Corps, described the contradictions of the Vietnam War in an article for The New York Times in 1971. ''On the one hand it was an extremely sophisticated war, with complex weapons unlike even World War II or Korea,'' he wrote. ''On the other hand it was a return to medieval war, pitting man against man on a battleground where only the courageous could win.'' News Media Role Cited

Like many American military officers, General Walt was frustrated by what he regarded as a lack of public support for the nation's troops in Vietnam, calling it the ''most misundertood war in our country's history.'' And, like many officers, he criticized press and television coverage of the war.

But he rejected censorship and anticipated a point of view that is slowly spreading among officers of the post-Vietnam generation who are now students in the nation's war colleges. ''We are going to have to realize the supreme importance of the news media in fighting political wars in the future,'' he said in 1969, ''or we will be faced otherwise with unpopular wars wherever they are.''

Lewis W. Walt, Marine Corps General, Dies at 76 - Obituary - NYTimes.com

 

[JakeStarkey]

Popularity is only part of the problems. Co-opting the support of the native population and realizing that hard power only supports the efforts of soft power; in other words, hard power is not an end in itself, and the military in Vietnam never really understood that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The draft was ruled constitutional about 90 years ago.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Remember that Kevin and others only recognize SCOTUS when it agrees with them.

 

[Woyzeck]

Excuse me? Where did I say anything about that? I just commented that it would be harder to justify mandatory national service than it is a draft.

Oh hello Quantum, have you ever met Quantum?

I think it would be a lot harder to justify a national service conscription than it would the military draft. At least the power to raise armies actually exists in the Constitution, and no one was forced to join the Army and stay until they were 42.

Yes, I said that, but that is still not anything like Obama's youth, which, as you said, was separate issue. Or are you going to try and claim that Rangell's bill doesn't apply to people over 40?

My post didn't just quote you. Note in my original post the quote above yours from Baruch specifically saying Obama Youth. That would be why I brought it up.

 

[frazzledgear]

Having grown up in a era and social class in which narcissism and money worship hadn't yet provided the primary moral value of Americans, I find arguments against serving the nation that serves you rather thoughtless and empty. If one enjoys the fruits of a society does one have no responsibility to that society? Let's face it no state of nature exists, and if it did the weenies would quickly die off as their primary work is whining about the government that provides the structure and stability in which they live and mostly pout. Have a DI scream at them and they'd run back to mommy anyway, but hey, it would be fun watching.

This is the typical liberal socialist argument that simply by existing man OWES his government -as if his own creation is his master. I find the arguments in favor of a mandatory national service from the left, that man should have no problem with having to serve as if he OWES it -to be inhumane and stomach churning but something the far left believes is a vital part of laying the groundwork for furthering their agenda and highly desirable for an eventual dictatorship. Once the population has been indoctrinated (as they are taught in our public schools now) to believe the proper role of government is to "take care" of them and end up believing they OWE their existence, their livelihood, their sustenance all to government and forget that government is nothing but a creation of man's that is intended to serve us and not the other way around, then it is easier to lead people to believe they exist as servants of our government -and the proper way to show their gratitude to government is with a term of national service. Which means anyone who resists the idea of a mandatory term of national service is just a selfish and self-centered narcissist. (That "selfish narcissist" of today is tomorrow's "enemy of the state" under leftist regimes). The liberal agenda is easier to advance if the population has largely accepted becoming servants of government with the norm being we OWE it our service. Same old stupid argument from the left that is actually a plea to the public to agree to become the happy slaves of the state and make it easier on the left. So they will never stop insisting we owe our government with a variety of the same old tired bs lines that are mostly centered on pointing out how much of your life government has taken over to run as it sees fit -oops "how much government is taking care of you". Even if you object to the role government has claimed for itself of playing the nanny for full grown mentally and physically capable human beings more than able to run their own lives and the increasingly larger role it has taken in running your life FOR you, the left will give this whiny touchy-feeling goop about hey, if you had any FEELINGS and aren't just a narcissist, then don't we really all OWE it to our government? Because just look how much it does for us taking care of us and all, right? ROFLMAO

Get this one straight and get it FAST. I do not OWE my government my service. Not now, not ever. Government has no claim on my service, my knowledge, my skills, my expertise. I OWN THAT and I owe it to nobody and sure as hell not to a man-made INSTITUTION that was created to serve WE THE PEOPLE. Not take care of me -SERVE me. When elected officials are sworn into office, when people are sworn into military service -not a single person takes an oath to defend, serve or protect our government. NOT ONE -and NOT EVER. I don't OWE my government and the only thing I have ever sworn to uphold and protect is the Constitution. Our Constitution is NOT our government. These are not interchangeable words. Our Constitution is a contract WE THE PEOPLE made WITH our government and if government breaks that contract, then according to the Declaration of Independence then I owe our government NOTHING, not even my allegiance which is why no American ever takes an oath to protect and defend their government.


The oath of office makes this distinction between our CONSTITUTION and our government because they aren't the same thing -and the founders were fully aware that the day could come when when government had morphed into something that no longer upheld their end of the contract -the Constitution. Taking an oath promising to defend and protect ONLY our Constitution and never one to protect our government - is an oath that is supposed to be a stark reminder which one really matters here if ever torn between our Constitution and our government. And guess what -my Constitution not only does not require my "national service", it has no use for it because it intended to create a government system that served us, and NOT the other way around. A government they intended would stay out of our way as much as possible so that WE THE PEOPLE, as individuals fully responsible for our own lives, could make what we will of our lives for better or ill as free people living out their lives as WE see fit. NOT as government sees fit. Government will get along just fine without the mandatory national service of its citizens just like it got along fine without it for the first 234 years.

I do not OWE anyone my service, my skills, my knowledge. I OWE it ONLY to myself because I take full responsibility for myself in the first place and need them to provide for myself. I REJECT the liberal garbage that government exists to "take care of me". It does NOT and that is NOT the proper role of government. Since I take responsibility for myself, I NEED my service, my skills, my knowledge and my expertise to provide for myself and my family. I do not exist FOR government, therefore neither does my service. Government is supposed to get out of my way and stay out of my way as much as possible so I can best take care of MYSELF.

This communist notion that I OWE a MAN-MADE institution, something created for the sole purpose of serving MAN -my service as if it is my master and I its servant -is putrid, revolting GARBAGE. But this is the typical spew from the left that likes to pretend government is such a magical, all knowing entity, more fit to run your life than you are and therefore the sooner we are pushed into believing we OWE it for our very existence, the better for the left. Government owes it existence to man -and if it fails to do the job it was created to do which is to serve us and not the other way around, then according to our Declaration of Independence ANY people faced with such a government have the right to take down their failure of a government and start over with another one they think will serve them better.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, We the People as represented in our Government, have every right to claim your justified contribution based on the social compact that has allowed you to succeed in this country, frazzled gear.

Make no mistake about this. If you are stupid enough to resist or to strike out against the lawful and legal actions of We the People through our government assembled, you will pay a terrible price.