GW's Rubicon

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Annie, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Have at it:

    http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson102805PF.html

     
  2. nosarcasm
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    nosarcasm Active Member

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    Europe is not any more or less corrupt then the US.
     
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  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Yeah, at least some of them are.
     
  4. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    I'll agree--we got some real pieces of work here too
     
  5. nosarcasm
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    nosarcasm Active Member

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    it really depends on the country, city, state in both regions.

    I dont like the moral superiority complex by either the European
    or the American press.

    Not helpfull.
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Can't disagree with the helpfulness part, but some have earned it while others presume it.
     
  7. nosarcasm
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    nosarcasm Active Member

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    who has earned moral superiority ?
     
  8. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    From my perspective, while the US has certainly left some 'moral cesspools' thrive-see Sudan; there are too many other instances where we have answered the call, even when we shouldn't as it was others' job to do-see Balkans.

    Then there is the response to the tsunamis, the earthquakes, etc. Even in Iran. Now compare the European capabilities, the US capabilities, who did what? Perhaps the EU doesn't have the Navy ships, but France does. Perhaps any one country doesn't have the 'man power' the EU does. They certainly have the money.

    During the Cold War, when nations needed the 'super power' they had no trouble taking it-see Germany 1960's. Today they act like we've always been grabbing at Empire-yeah, whatever.

    I'd like to know what a majority of European states have done to make the 'world' a bit better, on the scale we are speaking of.
     
  9. nosarcasm
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    nosarcasm Active Member

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    Germany was an occupied country in the early 60's. With the background
    of the holocaust looming hardly the nation to play the better then you card.
    Still I saw proof of the American comittment for freedom when
    during the German reunification unlike France the US supported
    chancellor Kohl.

    As you said small countries can't use military interventions as options.

    Consistency of your politics and ideology would be maybe the best
    indicator.

    France and the US both have a rather spotty record. Realist politics
    do not follow ideology, so I dont see it as a bad thing. But
    it is ludacris(sp) when either side claims it stands for all the good
    in the world more then the next true democracy. (or Republic)

    The Scandinavians might have been more consistent in their approach
    to foreign policy but its much easier when you are small and dont
    have interest around the world.

    Still I resent the attitude that one
    is better then the other based on morals. That would be my pretext
    to kill others because I think I know better. So I try to avoid thinking in those categories.
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    You'll notice that right out of the box I qualified our 'morals' with instances where we act without morals. The idea of a country using 'morals' though, is not a bad one with the given that there are 'self interests' always at work. The way issues are addressed though, that is one of the best measures of a country. For example, during the Berlin airlift, you did not hear most of our citizens questioning why we should do so. Nor did you find calls for us to 'take over' Germany once the Soviets backed off, (besides the fact that we were still there from the war-would be ever so much easier if these things didn't overlap! :teeth: )

    Take the Marshall Plan, our self-interest at work, we had no desire to see another European War in 20 years or so. Yet, the people of the US ponied up the tax money to make it real. When did any other state do that or anything on that level, then not demand the repayments, that were never made? Actually for the most part, acting as though we were and are on 'equal footing?' I mean, does anyone wonder if the US could 'conquer' the European continent-a folly to think of, but doubt? Unless France decided to try and nuke us, nukes wouldn't even come into play.

    Now you are hearing me wrong if you think I'm saying the US is superior to other nations by might and right. I am saying that we have an extensive history of mostly doing the right things, but being trashed in a way that would be unacceptable to other countries.
     

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