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Bigreb, this story is being followed closely here, and the Plain Dealer is being VERY circumspect about what it publishes. Rev. Henry is credited with being the leading force behind one of the city's largest homeless shelters, and has a wide and dedicated following.
But bigreb, the man was storing guns inside an unlocked car on the shelter's premises. When the police were done, they had collected over 200 weapons and almost 2,000 cases of ammunition. (Most of the guns and ammo were found at a farm, located away from the homeless shelter -- but some were found in and round the shelter.)
The police did a "pick up and hold for observation" on Rev. Henry, at the request of someone. A neighbor? A parishioner? A friend? A gun dealer? We don't know -- but whoever it was had concerns the cops felt were serious.
Even if the man is found sane, and I hope he is, storing weapons and ammo where the homeless can easily access them seems like an act that is not in keeping with his Lutheran faith or the neighborhood's well-being.
What would you have preferred the cops to do?
But bigreb, the man was storing guns inside an unlocked car on the shelter's premises. When the police were done, they had collected over 200 weapons and almost 2,000 cases of ammunition. (Most of the guns and ammo were found at a farm, located away from the homeless shelter -- but some were found in and round the shelter.)
Even if the man is found sane, and I hope he is, storing weapons and ammo where the homeless can easily access them seems like an act that is not in keeping with his Lutheran faith or the neighborhood's well-being.
If the psych eval goes well will he have his guns returned?????
I am to say the least a a little bit more than just PO'ed. I am still trying to find out why a man had his guns seized. The only thing I see is that the government thinks he had too many. If that's the case then the government has stepped over the line. If that's the case are you going to remain silent about it? This must be stop and it must be stop now. This should not be tolerated.
Rev. John Henry takes leave from post at St. Herman's after 230 guns seized | cleveland.com
Also Tuesday, police for the first time disclosed why they began investigating Henry.
Several weeks ago, officials said, an anonymous informant told a narcotics detective that a man claiming to be a priest had purchased multiple guns. After police identified the man as Henry, the detective's surveillance uncovered "strange and erratic" behavior, Harper said.
Henry tried at least once to use St. Herman's tax exemption when purchasing guns, but it is unknown if he succeeded, said Cleveland Safety Director Martin Flask. St. Herman's is operated by the Little Brothers of the Divine Compassion Inc., a registered nonprofit, records show.
On Jan. 28, police spotted weapons -- "in plain view" -- stored in an unlocked car parked near St. Herman's, which is located at Franklin Boulevard and West 44th Street. With Henry's consent, police later searched for and confiscated 80 guns and 874 boxes of ammunition.
An incident report describes the visit as a crisis intervention, which according to police policy must end with a psychiatric evaluation, hospital commitment or both. Henry, city officials confirmed Tuesday, voluntarily admitted himself to Lutheran Hospital for an evaluation.
On Friday, again with Henry's permission, police searched a farm that St. Herman's uses in Bloomfield Township, located about 15 miles north of Warren in Trumbull County. There, they found and confiscated 150 more guns and 1,314 additional boxes of ammunition, according to a second report.
Police allowed reporters to view the recovered firearms Tuesday afternoon. Handguns filled four milk crates. Rifles and shotguns filled three large white carts on wheels.
The guns included rifles with scopes and at least three assault weapons. Police described two of them as M4 assault rifles. Some of the guns appeared new, while others were old, battered with scratches in their wooden stocks. A few of the weapons appeared to be antiques.
Flask said that Cleveland officials know and respect that people have the right to purchase as many guns as they can afford. But Henry's behavior, he added, cried for more attention.
For example, Flask said, Henry went to a Walmart between 9 and 10 p.m. and hung around the store until between 1 and 2 a.m. before buying the guns and ammunition.
"This raised some fears that the purchases may have been for something other than a legitimate reason," Flask said. Rev. John Henry takes leave from post at St. Herman's after 230 guns seized | cleveland.com
I dun own a gun, so I dun buy ammo. I doubt all Walmarts have the very same policies about ammo sales, and anyway, the article said that he TRIED to buy ammo after midnight. It is less clear if they sold him any.
This homeless shelter, you won't be surprised to learn, is inside a congested urban neighborhood, bigreb. I dun know if that describes your home but even if it does, apparently, your conduct has not created anxiety among your friends and neighbors.
If it did and they asked the cops to do a pick up and hold on you, yes, you would likely lose your guns at least temporarily, if they saw them.
Again, what would you ruther the cops do? Are you forgetting already that had someone alerted the cops in Scottsdale, Lougher would not have been free to shoot his victims? There has to be a way to address the threat of potentially violent mentally unstable people with guns, don't you agree?
If your concern is, a malicious neighbor could falsely report you to the cops and thereby prompt an unnecessary pick and hold for observation order, yes, that could happen. However, the law has various due process protections for you and it's likely you'd be released in 24 to 48 hours, and your guns would be returned.
If your concern is, a malicious neighbor could falsely report you to the cops and thereby prompt an unnecessary pick and hold for observation order, yes, that could happen. However, the law has various due process protections for you and it's likely you'd be released in 24 to 48 hours, and your guns would be returned
I am to say the least a a little bit more than just PO'ed. I am still trying to find out why a man had his guns seized. The only thing I see is that the government thinks he had too many. If that's the case then the government has stepped over the line. If that's the case are you going to remain silent about it? This must be stop and it must be stop now. This should not be tolerated.
Rev. John Henry takes leave from post at St. Herman's after 230 guns seized | cleveland.com
Also Tuesday, police for the first time disclosed why they began investigating Henry.
Several weeks ago, officials said, an anonymous informant told a narcotics detective that a man claiming to be a priest had purchased multiple guns. After police identified the man as Henry, the detective's surveillance uncovered "strange and erratic" behavior, Harper said.
Henry tried at least once to use St. Herman's tax exemption when purchasing guns, but it is unknown if he succeeded, said Cleveland Safety Director Martin Flask. St. Herman's is operated by the Little Brothers of the Divine Compassion Inc., a registered nonprofit, records show.
On Jan. 28, police spotted weapons -- "in plain view" -- stored in an unlocked car parked near St. Herman's, which is located at Franklin Boulevard and West 44th Street. With Henry's consent, police later searched for and confiscated 80 guns and 874 boxes of ammunition.
An incident report describes the visit as a crisis intervention, which according to police policy must end with a psychiatric evaluation, hospital commitment or both. Henry, city officials confirmed Tuesday, voluntarily admitted himself to Lutheran Hospital for an evaluation.
On Friday, again with Henry's permission, police searched a farm that St. Herman's uses in Bloomfield Township, located about 15 miles north of Warren in Trumbull County. There, they found and confiscated 150 more guns and 1,314 additional boxes of ammunition, according to a second report.
Police allowed reporters to view the recovered firearms Tuesday afternoon. Handguns filled four milk crates. Rifles and shotguns filled three large white carts on wheels.
The guns included rifles with scopes and at least three assault weapons. Police described two of them as M4 assault rifles. Some of the guns appeared new, while others were old, battered with scratches in their wooden stocks. A few of the weapons appeared to be antiques.
Flask said that Cleveland officials know and respect that people have the right to purchase as many guns as they can afford. But Henry's behavior, he added, cried for more attention.
For example, Flask said, Henry went to a Walmart between 9 and 10 p.m. and hung around the store until between 1 and 2 a.m. before buying the guns and ammunition.
"This raised some fears that the purchases may have been for something other than a legitimate reason," Flask said. Rev. John Henry takes leave from post at St. Herman's after 230 guns seized | cleveland.com
Seems to me that They acted reasonably.
bigrebnc wrote:
Being reasonable is ok until it's you who it effects.
bigrebnc wrote:
Being reasonable is ok until it's you who it effects.
Bigreb, what would have wanted to see the cops do? This is actually quite a healthy debate, IMO. We have individual liberties in this country, and being mentally ill by itself is not a crime. Yet we can all see, some mentally ill people become violent.
When friends and family think that might could happen, how would you want the cops to respond?
Bigreb, what would have wanted to see the cops do? This is actually quite a healthy debate, IMO.
I am to say the least a a little bit more than just PO'ed. I am still trying to find out why a man had his guns seized. The only thing I see is that the government thinks he had too many. If that's the case then the government has stepped over the line. If that's the case are you going to remain silent about it? This must be stop and it must be stop now. This should not be tolerated.
Rev. John Henry takes leave from post at St. Herman's after 230 guns seized | cleveland.com
Also Tuesday, police for the first time disclosed why they began investigating Henry.
Several weeks ago, officials said, an anonymous informant told a narcotics detective that a man claiming to be a priest had purchased multiple guns. After police identified the man as Henry, the detective's surveillance uncovered "strange and erratic" behavior, Harper said.
Henry tried at least once to use St. Herman's tax exemption when purchasing guns, but it is unknown if he succeeded, said Cleveland Safety Director Martin Flask. St. Herman's is operated by the Little Brothers of the Divine Compassion Inc., a registered nonprofit, records show.
On Jan. 28, police spotted weapons -- "in plain view" -- stored in an unlocked car parked near St. Herman's, which is located at Franklin Boulevard and West 44th Street. With Henry's consent, police later searched for and confiscated 80 guns and 874 boxes of ammunition.
An incident report describes the visit as a crisis intervention, which according to police policy must end with a psychiatric evaluation, hospital commitment or both. Henry, city officials confirmed Tuesday, voluntarily admitted himself to Lutheran Hospital for an evaluation.
On Friday, again with Henry's permission, police searched a farm that St. Herman's uses in Bloomfield Township, located about 15 miles north of Warren in Trumbull County. There, they found and confiscated 150 more guns and 1,314 additional boxes of ammunition, according to a second report.
Police allowed reporters to view the recovered firearms Tuesday afternoon. Handguns filled four milk crates. Rifles and shotguns filled three large white carts on wheels.
The guns included rifles with scopes and at least three assault weapons. Police described two of them as M4 assault rifles. Some of the guns appeared new, while others were old, battered with scratches in their wooden stocks. A few of the weapons appeared to be antiques.
Flask said that Cleveland officials know and respect that people have the right to purchase as many guns as they can afford. But Henry's behavior, he added, cried for more attention.
For example, Flask said, Henry went to a Walmart between 9 and 10 p.m. and hung around the store until between 1 and 2 a.m. before buying the guns and ammunition.
"This raised some fears that the purchases may have been for something other than a legitimate reason," Flask said. Rev. John Henry takes leave from post at St. Herman's after 230 guns seized | cleveland.com
Seems to me that They acted reasonably.
Being reasonable is ok until it's you who it effects.
Do you have access to the results of the psych eval?Discretionary confiscation is given to most law enforcement officers, behavior is normally the reason used,,, again at the discretion of the observing officer,, no legal enforcement offense was committed unless perjury was committed by the police, but the psych examination seems to have substantiated the complaint and confiscation.
Act loony and self righteous in front ot the wrong folks and you can be put away as a danger to the public and all your dangerous implements confiscated, including your neck tie, belt, nail clippers and shoe laces,, that's a law as I understand it.
Being politically incorrect is thought loony in many cases and what you say or transmit by any means can used against you.
Nearly all cops are fearful of guns,,, in other peoples hands,,, it's called a healthy paranoia in the cop biz..
Do you have access to the results of the psych eval?Discretionary confiscation is given to most law enforcement officers, behavior is normally the reason used,,, again at the discretion of the observing officer,, no legal enforcement offense was committed unless perjury was committed by the police, but the psych examination seems to have substantiated the complaint and confiscation.
Act loony and self righteous in front ot the wrong folks and you can be put away as a danger to the public and all your dangerous implements confiscated, including your neck tie, belt, nail clippers and shoe laces,, that's a law as I understand it.
Being politically incorrect is thought loony in many cases and what you say or transmit by any means can used against you.
Nearly all cops are fearful of guns,,, in other peoples hands,,, it's called a healthy paranoia in the cop biz..
How can you claim that anything has been substantiated?
bigrebnc wrote:
The cops should have done noting, but observed him. But as I said taking rights away from people is ok until it happens to you.
bigrebnc wrote:
The cops should have done noting, but observed him. But as I said taking rights away from people is ok until it happens to you.
You know this is not realistic. The cops do not have that kind of manpower, and even if they did, do they observe him inside his house? Using some spy technique they have no warrant for?
I dun understand why you cannot balance the needs of his neighbors for safety against his rights to own guns and be left alone, and see that a 24 or 48 hr stay in a mental ward is not the most unreasonable of compromises, bigreb.
You are taking this 2nd Amendment thingie too far, I think.
You are taking this 2nd Amendment thingie too far
I dun understand why you cannot balance the needs of his neighbors for safety against his rights to own guns and be left alone, and see that a 24 or 48 hr stay in a mental ward is not the most unreasonable of compromises,
do they observe him inside his house?
Using some spy technique they have no warrant for?
How many times have most of us thought why didn't someone care enough to do something,,, someone did something.
Waiting for a mishap or crime to happen when all the indications except the overt act present should have some preventive action,,, the right to bear arms is not a right to act or be reckless,,,, in my opinion.
I Know people that I don't want to have guns, they almost certainly would hurt themselves or someone.
Discretionary confiscation is given to most law enforcement officers, behavior is normally the reason used,,, again at the discretion of the observing officer,, no legal enforcement offense was committed unless perjury was committed by the police, but the psych examination seems to have substantiated the complaint and confiscation.
Act loony and self righteous in front ot the wrong folks and you can be put away as a danger to the public and all your dangerous implements confiscated, including your neck tie, belt, nail clippers and shoe laces,, that's a law as I understand it.
Being politically incorrect is thought loony in many cases and what you say or transmit by any means can used against you.
Nearly all cops are fearful of guns,,, in other peoples hands,,, it's called a healthy paranoia in the cop biz..
Act loony and self righteous
How many times have most of us thought why didn't someone care enough to do something,,, someone did something.
Waiting for a mishap or crime to happen when all the indications except the overt act present should have some preventive action,,, the right to bear arms is not a right to act or be reckless,,,, in my opinion.
I Know people that I don't want to have guns, they almost certainly would hurt themselves or someone.
Sure but who to sayone of your neighbors sees you do something they feel is strange and reports you, would it bother you?
How many times have most of us thought why didn't someone care enough to do something,,, someone did something.
Waiting for a mishap or crime to happen when all the indications except the overt act present should have some preventive action,,, the right to bear arms is not a right to act or be reckless,,,, in my opinion.
I Know people that I don't want to have guns, they almost certainly would hurt themselves or someone.
Sure but who to sayone of your neighbors sees you do something they feel is strange and reports you, would it bother you?
If I am made to feel unsafe or fearful for myself, my property or others well being and/or property I can in good conscientious act in defense of said same, as I am allowed in accordance to law,,, . If I make a false accusation there is a law to address that illegal infringement as a crime,,,, good intentions are not a strong defense.
The 2nd amendment was in my opinion meant to address a defense against foreign invasion, protection of self, property and prevent oppressive regimes, not for indiscriminate brandishing,,, observed brandishing in Texas can lead to confiscation of weapons and forfeiture of the legal right to carry license.
60 years ago the USMC taught me anyone with a weapon was a potential hazard to my well being,,, I can attest to the validity of the concept..
