Guns do kill people!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wry Catcher, Aug 6, 2012.

?

Should the right to bear arms be abridged?

Poll closed Aug 11, 2012.
  1. Never

    33.3%
  2. Yes, those convicted of Drug/Alcohol related crimes

    44.4%
  3. Yes, those convicted of Ccrimes of violence

    66.7%
  4. Yes, those detained for 72 hours or more for psychiatric teatment

    44.4%
  5. Anyone on Probation or Parole

    55.6%
  6. Anyone not trained and licensed by their state of residence

    33.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    Notwithstanding the cliché ("guns don't kill people, people kill people") guns do kill people. Of course so do cars, yet, we license drivers, require drivers to have insurance, and take away cars and licenses when from those who abuse the driving privilege.

    The issue of gun control ignites the emotions of many on this message board who believe gun control in any form is unconstitutional. The issue in this thread is not on the right to own a firearm, rahter, what are the moral, ethical and social consequences of such a policy (not its legality)?

    Of course we cannot dismiss the Constitutional right to own a firearem simply based on the misuse of such weapons by the few and not the many. We can however look at the wording in the Second Amendment and at the contemporary definition of the word "Infringed":

    "to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule"; from dictionary.com.






    First though, a poll.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  2. peach174
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    peach174 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    There is no word abridged in the 2nd amendment.
    The word is infringed.
    Nobody has ever said that there should never be any type of gun control what so ever.
    We do say reasonable gun control.
     
  3. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    Wow. Mea Culpa. I will modify the thread.
     
  4. Staidhup
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    Staidhup Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Guns don't kill people, guns are inanimate objects incapable of firing on their own, period end of sentence. All the restrictions and laws in the land will never deter those seeking a gun to commit a crime. Only a fool would believe the act of passing a law and or enacting restrictions would accomplish the objective. Society, lack of moral consciousness, responsibility, accountability, and common sense are the very deficiencies exhibited by those that kill people. You can not legislate a moral and just society only set an example by eradicating those that take a life in the commission of a crime in the hope of driving home what is and is not acceptable social behavior. We as a collective society no longer retain a moral compass nor the resolve to exact the maximum punishment which is exhibited by the nature of the crimes those in the society commit.

    How many people speed, run a red light, drive without seat belts, drink and drive, operate a motor vehicle with a suspended or no license at all..... the list goes on and on, all violations of laws enacted with intent that has little or no consequence other than to extract fines.
     
  5. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    Guns do kill people; guns are made to kill, cars are not.

    I'm not suggesting a sober, law abiding and sane citizen should have his second amendment rights infringed; I'm suggesting the policy in effect which is so loose and allows intemperate, mentally ill and violent individuals to buy guns is insane. Society needs to restrict some citizens from owning, possessing or having under their custody or control firearms.

    The only sure way is to license all those who seek to own, etc. a firearm and to register all weapons sold and complete sales to only licensed customers..

    I recognize the registration of all weapons now in the possession of citizens is impractical; but all dealers of new or used weapons should register the sale with local law enforcement.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  6. Mr.Nick
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    Mr.Nick VIP Member

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    Inanimate objects cannot kill people...

    Do people chop the tomatoes or does the knife?

    mmmm

    Lets ban hammers next because I could potentially bash a fuckers brains out with one...... Then again I could use the tool in the proper fashion and build something useful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  7. IGetItAlready
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    IGetItAlready BANNED

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    Why not licensing the criminal and insane instead, thereby leaving the rational, mentally competent and law abiding alone?

    You've got to show ID to buy a gun so simply add an additional box to IDs and if you're a criminal or looney you get an "X" in the box.

    Why do the masses need to be affected each time we attempt to address the minorities on the fringe?
     
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  8. Wry Catcher
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    The masses need not be affected, only those who want to own, possess, or have in their custody and control a firearm. It seems to me only criminals and paranoids would object to licensing.
     
  9. IGetItAlready
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    If we're going to get into the business of classifying people by criminal or mental health status should it really be the responsibility of gun dealers?
    The government is responsible for issuing ID and licenses so let them be the ones to mark the box with an "X". When a dealer asks for ID and sees the "X", said dealer hands the citizen his/her ID and a phone number and tells the individual he/she needs to call the number to find why their purchase has been denied.
    Anyone but the REALLY crazy should already know why their ID has been "X"ed.

    It's really not my problem nor the problem of the average American that we've not kept tabs on high risk individuals up to now and it's certainly not the responsibility of responsible individuals to pick up the slack.

    The masses are affected in that our constitutional rights apply to the masses. People buy guns everyday who until whatever event that led them to desire to arm themselves NEVER owned a gun. Just because you don't exercise your right doesn't mean it goes away.
     
  10. C_Clayton_Jones
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    C_Clayton_Jones Diamond Member

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    Both registration and licensing requirements constitute an undue burden to exercising one’s Second Amendment rights, although the former has withstood intermediate scrutiny in lower courts (See e.g. Heller II), together such requirements would be needlessly excessive. And there still lacks documented evidence that registration or licensing would decrease violent crimes with guns, and such requirements would only have an unwarranted chilling effect on ownership by law-biding citizens.

    In addition be being a potential Second Amendment violation, this would also be a 4th Amendment privacy rights violation and a 5th and 6th Amendment due process violation. One can not be reported to the state (police) because some perceive guns to be dangerous, or believe their owners are at a greater risk to commit violent crimes, or manifest a greater likelihood firearms would fall into the hands of criminals. One is innocent of a crime until proven guilty, wishing to own a firearm is not ‘probable cause’ a ‘crime’ is being committed.
     

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