Gunny's Thread on Religion

[Gunny]

RGS: Look up red shift, the expanding universe, background radiation...

The expanding universe is illogical. If one cannot pinpoint the center of the universe, and the boundaries, then it cannot be proven.

You simply fail to understand the concept. it is spacetime itself that is expanding. this is not the same as matter moving away from other matter within spacetime Tale the classical example to many dots on a balloon as it is inflated

I fail to understand nothing. First you create something from nothing, then you expand it. You cannot create something from noting, nor can you expand the infinite.

If you are saying the universe is infinite, please define its boundaries. If it is infinite, it cannot expand.

What MAN (again) can perceive is that ther is expansion within the limit of Man's observation.

 

[Gunny]

RGS: Look up red shift, the expanding universe, background radiation...

The expanding universe is illogical. If one cannot pinpoint the center of the universe, and the boundaries, then it cannot be proven.

You simply fail to understand the concept. it is spacetime itself that is expanding. this is not the same as matter moving away from other matter within spacetime Tale the classical example to many dots on a balloon as it is inflated

You mean I fail to understand something that is illogical? Guilty as charged.

 

[KittenKoder]

No such thing. There is nothing that proves any scientific theory beyond the limit of man's intellect and capability. The Big Bang is nonsense dreamed up by someone out to disprove a Creator.

it should be pointed out that Lemaitre, one of the originators of the BBT (the central equations of the BBT are often called the "Friedman-Lemaitre equations"), was actually a Jesuit priest!

so yeah, that's a lie, gunny

Sorry, I don't lie. The Big Bang theory is EXACTLY what it's called -- a theory. Nothing more.

It is also not very plausible, and becoming less so each new discovery. JB is reaching at this point, utilizing bargain basement science. Quantum physics does not state something can come from nothing, but that something can come from somewhere into nothing, think wormhole logic or Star Trek teleportation fantasy.

In reality science cannot answer all questions, as you have already pointed out, but then neither has religion.

 

[del]

Gunny you obviously missed where a certain poster has stated now that science has an experiment that validates and proves the Big Bang, the start of life on earth and that man evolved from an ape like creature.

No such thing. There is nothing that proves any scientific theory beyond the limit of man's intellect and capability. The Big Bang is nonsense dreamed up by someone out to disprove a Creator.

it should be pointed out that Lemaitre, one of the originators of the BBT (the central equations of the BBT are often called the "Friedman-Lemaitre equations"), was actually a Jesuit priest!

so yeah, that's a lie, gunny

we'll add jesuits to the things about which you are severely underinformed.

 

[JBeukema]

So, you deny the exapnding universe? Explain Red Shift, first off

Sorry, I don't lie. The Big Bang theory is EXACTLY what it's called -- a theory. Nothing more.

and your religion is a mere hypothesis, inferior to either a rightful theory or a model.

It is also not very plausible, and becoming less so each new discovery

Demonstrate.
All respected schools of science disagree with your assertion

. JB is reaching at this point, utilizing bargain basement science. Quantum physics does not state something can come from nothing, but that something can come from somewhere into nothing, think wormhole logic or Star Trek teleportation fantasy.

Look into the relevant fields.

and BTW, teleportation isn't just scifi fantasy. You really should spend some time looking into the matter

 

[KittenKoder]

So, you deny the exapnding universe? Explain Red Shift, first off

Sorry, I don't lie. The Big Bang theory is EXACTLY what it's called -- a theory. Nothing more.

and your religion is a mere hypothesis, inferior to either a rightful theory or a model.

It is also not very plausible, and becoming less so each new discovery

Demonstrate.
All respected schools of science disagree with your assertion

. JB is reaching at this point, utilizing bargain basement science. Quantum physics does not state something can come from nothing, but that something can come from somewhere into nothing, think wormhole logic or Star Trek teleportation fantasy.

Look into the relevant fields.

and BTW, teleportation isn't just scifi fantasy. You really should spend some time looking into the matter

I have, and to go into further discussion would also be completely off topic as it would require way more than a single post. However, since you do not care for generalizations of off topic discussion perhaps you could start your own thread, since the formulas are not what is important here, but what is, the big bang theory was replaced by a more plausible theory recently, gas cloud I think was the term used for it. As for most scientists agreeing with the big bang theory, no, they haven't, which is why they have been working so hard to find alternative theories. It simply does not explain enough, and science is all about explanations that are provable. This is why neither religion nor science can exist well without the other, we cannot learn why an atom exists just by figuring out how it got there through any mathematical model, it's not something science can do, because the "why" is not measurable, it's religious.

 

[AVG-JOE]

In the 13 & 14th centuries, the king of France owned out-right his fellow Frenchmen. They were his to do with as he pleased. Even to the point of murder. It was the law.

Some laws should be changed.

(Insert your favorite Deity here) bless change.

-Joe

But thats exactly the point. Laws do change. Basing decisions on whats legal and whats not is merely a matter of time in some instances. Thats the problem with law. And thats why law should be based on principles rather than principles being based on law.

Unfortunately brother, that good point of yours brings us back to square one, because basing our principles on something other than our popular, community based laws, complete with their human flaws and the protests that those flaws demand requires that there be a higher authority than our collective self and many of us don't believe that one exists. In addition, there is much disagreement among the proponents of a higher authority regarding the interpretations of the instructions He supposedly left us.

I know that you do believe a higher authority exists and I respect that, but if more of our neighbors believe that We, The People should dynamically decide the parameters of our principles as we go along than believe that our principles should be based on your favorite piece of ancient literature, the principles of law will continue to evolve and flow with the times.

Doesn't mean you can't live your life by principles in addition to our laws, it just means you can't fault the rest of us for not doing likewise. It also doesn't mean that the really good principles, like 'thou shall not kill' won't stand the test of time and maintain their place of honor in the paper of our law books as well as being carved into the stone of the ancient literature that some consider holy.

Our only other choice as a nation is to go all Sunni -vs- Shiite on each other, and that would be a fucking mess.

-Joe

Can there not be a spiritual realm we know nothing about which we call 'spiritual' for lack of a better term?

-Joe

if you don't know about it, you can't call it anything

Sure I can. I don't know anything about giving blow-jobs but I can call them fantastic...

Incomplete knowledge doesn't mean I don't have a right to be wrong in my beliefs!

-Joe

The religious views of your average Joe

 

[Sky Dancer]

No such thing. There is nothing that proves any scientific theory beyond the limit of man's intellect and capability. The Big Bang is nonsense dreamed up by someone out to disprove a Creator.

it should be pointed out that Lemaitre, one of the originators of the BBT (the central equations of the BBT are often called the "Friedman-Lemaitre equations"), was actually a Jesuit priest!

so yeah, that's a lie, gunny

we'll add jesuits to the things about which you are severely underinformed.

What makes you an expert on Jesuits?

 

[Gunny]

So, you deny the exapnding universe? Explain Red Shift, first off

Sorry, I don't lie. The Big Bang theory is EXACTLY what it's called -- a theory. Nothing more.

and your religion is a mere hypothesis, inferior to either a rightful theory or a model.

It is also not very plausible, and becoming less so each new discovery

Demonstrate.
All respected schools of science disagree with your assertion

. JB is reaching at this point, utilizing bargain basement science. Quantum physics does not state something can come from nothing, but that something can come from somewhere into nothing, think wormhole logic or Star Trek teleportation fantasy.

Look into the relevant fields.

and BTW, teleportation isn't just scifi fantasy. You really should spend some time looking into the matter

The differnce is ... I don't claim my religion is anymore than what it is. You require faith to believe.

You on the other hand, are stretching. WAY out there. my entire point from the beginning is that it ALL requires faith. Your belief and mine. Yet you attempt to present theory as fact. The Big Bang and the "expanding universe are no more guesswork than intelligent design.

If I can get through to ONE MFer on this board, my point is that your shit stinks like everyone else's. There's no superiority. I can hang with you on any topic you so desire to bring up. This one included. I only ask that you THINK next time before you blindly attack anyone who believes in a God.

We don't differ much in that I can't stand people who try to shove their religion on others. We differ in the fact that don't conder attacking you whenever and wherever you can be found fr your religious beliefs.

It isn't necessary and only makes YOU look like an extremist for attacking others blindly.

Believe what you want. I'll answer to God, you can answer to whoever you so desire.

If I don't win, I'll know i. If you win you win or lose, you WILL know it.

 

[JBeukema]

I have, and to go into further discussion would also be completely off topic as it would require way more than a single post. However, since you do not care for generalizations of off topic discussion perhaps you could start your own thread, since the formulas are not what is important here, but what is, the big bang theory was replaced by a more plausible theory recently, gas cloud I think was the term used for it.

Are you referring to nebular cloud theory, which deals with the formation of plants and stars within the universe?

As for most scientists agreeing with the big bang theory, no, they haven't,

TBT remains the dominant and most widely acceted theory, in no small part because no other theory has yet been put forth that explains so much so well

we cannot learn why an atom exists just by figuring out how it got there through any mathematical model, it's not something science can do, because the "why" is not measurable, it's religious.

'why' is not a valid question. There is no 'reason' that the universe is the way it is, other than the interplay of the laws of the universe acting on energy/matter

 

[Sky Dancer]

The Jesuit, Illuminati, Knights of Columbus and Masonic Oaths
What is characteristic of the Jesuits from the beginning, we already see, is a certain ruthlessness in the choice of means to attain their ends.
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/religious_controversy/chapter_29.html

 

[JBeukema]

'why' is not a valid question. There is no 'reason' that the universe is the way it is, other than the interplay of the laws of the universe acting on energy/matter

It's like asking for a 'meaning of life'. Things only have subjective 'meanings' within one's own life and experience, making the 'meaning of life' an invalid question- like asking what blue tastes like or that the small of past is.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So, you deny the exapnding universe? Explain Red Shift, first off

Sorry, I don't lie. The Big Bang theory is EXACTLY what it's called -- a theory. Nothing more.

and your religion is a mere hypothesis, inferior to either a rightful theory or a model.



Demonstrate.
All respected schools of science disagree with your assertion

. JB is reaching at this point, utilizing bargain basement science. Quantum physics does not state something can come from nothing, but that something can come from somewhere into nothing, think wormhole logic or Star Trek teleportation fantasy.

Look into the relevant fields.

and BTW, teleportation isn't just scifi fantasy. You really should spend some time looking into the matter

The differnce is ... I don't claim my religion is anymore than what it is. You require faith to believe.

You on the other hand, are stretching. WAY out there. my entire point from the beginning is that it ALL requires faith. Your belief and mine. Yet you attempt to present theory as fact. The Big Bang and the "expanding universe are no more guesswork than intelligent design.

If I can get through to ONE MFer on this board, my point is that your shit stinks like everyone else's. There's no superiority. I can hang with you on any topic you so desire to bring up. This one included. I only ask that you THINK next time before you blindly attack anyone who believes in a God.

We don't differ much in that I can't stand people who try to shove their religion on others. We differ in the fact that don't conder attacking you whenever and wherever you can be found fr your religious beliefs.

It isn't necessary and only makes YOU look like an extremist for attacking others blindly.

Believe what you want. I'll answer to God, you can answer to whoever you so desire.

If I don't win, I'll know i. If you win you win or lose, you WILL know it.

I said that I disagree, but I was wrong. I actually agree exactly with what you said, it is your conclusion we will have to agree to disagree on.

-Joe

 

[JBeukema]

If I don't win, I'll know

Actually, we established long ago that you refuse to admit when you're wrong- even when you're caught in a lie. Instead, you got angry, went on a tirade, and then used you powers as a mod to try to silence me and keep anyone elswe from seeing you exposed.

-or perhaps you've forgotten about that

 

[AVG-JOE]

So, you deny the exapnding universe? Explain Red Shift, first off

Sorry, I don't lie. The Big Bang theory is EXACTLY what it's called -- a theory. Nothing more.

and your religion is a mere hypothesis, inferior to either a rightful theory or a model.



Demonstrate.
All respected schools of science disagree with your assertion

. JB is reaching at this point, utilizing bargain basement science. Quantum physics does not state something can come from nothing, but that something can come from somewhere into nothing, think wormhole logic or Star Trek teleportation fantasy.

Look into the relevant fields.

and BTW, teleportation isn't just scifi fantasy. You really should spend some time looking into the matter

I have, and to go into further discussion would also be completely off topic as it would require way more than a single post. However, since you do not care for generalizations of off topic discussion perhaps you could start your own thread, since the formulas are not what is important here, but what is, the big bang theory was replaced by a more plausible theory recently, gas cloud I think was the term used for it. As for most scientists agreeing with the big bang theory, no, they haven't, which is why they have been working so hard to find alternative theories. It simply does not explain enough, and science is all about explanations that are provable. This is why neither religion nor science can exist well without the other, we cannot learn why an atom exists just by figuring out how it got there through any mathematical model, it's not something science can do, because the "why" is not measurable, it's religious.

 

[Valerie]

If I don't win, I'll know

Actually, we established long ago that you refuse to admit when you're wrong- even when you're caught in a lie. Instead, you got angry, went on a tirade, and then used you powers as a mod to try to silence me and keep anyone elswe from seeing you exposed.

-or perhaps you've forgotten about that

Who are you quoting there?

 

[JBeukema]

Again, the 'why' doesn't exist; it is not a valid question. KK and joe are simply buying into a theist 'out' they use to try to validate a perceived 'need' for their delusions and systems, despite their lack of reason, zero grounding in reality, and religion's hsitory of being detrimental to the wellbeing and peace of Mankind

 

[Harry Dresden]

What "Big Bang"? You mean that scientific theory that actually defies scientific law? The Big bang is based on a theory of something being created from nothing. A scientific impossibility. Simple scientific equation: you cannot create something from nothing.

but if someone such as "GOD" actually does exist,and whom we are like Amoebas on the evolutionary scale,one such as he, just may be able too pull it off....just sayin...

 

[JBeukema]

Christianity is based on something being made from noting- which they insist is totally impossible

How do they justify that? With a deity that, by definition can never be demonstrated to exist.

'That's impossible, but it happened one because in undetectable thing that revealed itself to me said so in a book that I know is true because it's the word of the thing that the book says is real- or at least that's what the book says'

it''s circular reasoning at itrs worst, with reason and logic decalred anathema

 

[KittenKoder]

Again, the 'why' doesn't exist; it is not a valid question. KK and joe are simply buying into a theist 'out' they use to try to validate a perceived 'need' for their delusions and systems, despite their lack of reason, zero grounding in reality, and religion's hsitory of being detrimental to the wellbeing and peace of Mankind

"Why" is a valid question, and thanks to science it is now the most important question we have left, all the others are getting answered almost as fast as we can ask them, except that one simple, single word, question. For the millions (perhaps billions) of years our species has existed, it is the one question, the ultimate question, to which empires have sacrificed millions of lives in pursuit of answering, to which millions of sonnets have been writ, which is the only driving force that has kept us civil to each other at all in this world ... "Why."

This is the one sole and only reason we need religion as a species, for it is this one simple, untestable, unprovable question that has allowed us to remain here. Without it, we would have gone extinct a long time ago because our bodies are not even close to the toughest, most durable bodies, our species has nothing to offer nature, and according to the laws of evolution, humanity was like the platypus, natures joke. So there has to be a reason our species has reigned supreme, some logical explanation beyond "we're just smarter" ... because as you can see from the state of the world, we aren't smarter. We aren't faster, stronger, more powerful than anything else on this planet. Viruses can wipe out entire countries. But we somehow have been able to remain. Somehow, as a species, we beat the odds. There has to be a reason for this, and science cannot give us that reason.