Gun Violence out of Control?... Tax Law-Abiding Citizens as the Answer!

[Katzndogz]

Criminals won't stop buying bullets because there is a tax. Criminals don't buy bullets from the store anyway. Criminals get their guns and their ammunition from their own criminal enterprises and don't pay tax at all.

 

[Cheddarmelon]

You are the one making a staement of "ALL" countries with "SOME" level of gun control have a "FRACTION" of our gun homicide/suicide/accident rate, not me.

Do they often have less? Yes. Do they also have other problems, like Japan for example, where thier sucide rate even without guns is double ours?

See the link,

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the focus of the argument is guns, not suicides. If people are unhappier in Japan, that's one thing. But strictly speaking for homicides by Gun, and suicides by gun, America takes the cake. Arguing that "other" problems have any relevance to the discussion of gun violence, is like rebutting someone who says your car doesn't work, by saying "yeah, our car doesn't run, but yours smells like cheese."

You brought suicide into the discussion by referencing deaths both intentional and accidental, which includes suicide. The point is guns are just a part of the equation when it comes to violence in society.

agreed. They are only a part. But it's a huge part in America. that SHOULD concern people. And since deaths by gun are demonstratively lower in countries that favour gun control, that SHOULD say something.

It's only the NRA hacks and the gun humpers that say that it has NO effect on gun violence. This isn't a suggestion to disarm the American people, as silly as the 2nd amendment is (in the context that it has been interpreted, that is) they have their rights. But it's utter lunacy to think that means they should walk around with whatever weapon they want, without any regulation or restriction.

 

[martybegan]

the focus of the argument is guns, not suicides. If people are unhappier in Japan, that's one thing. But strictly speaking for homicides by Gun, and suicides by gun, America takes the cake. Arguing that "other" problems have any relevance to the discussion of gun violence, is like rebutting someone who says your car doesn't work, by saying "yeah, our car doesn't run, but yours smells like cheese."

You brought suicide into the discussion by referencing deaths both intentional and accidental, which includes suicide. The point is guns are just a part of the equation when it comes to violence in society.

agreed. They are only a part. But it's a huge part in America. that SHOULD concern people. And since deaths by gun are demonstratively lower in countries that favour gun control, that SHOULD say something.

It's only the NRA hacks and the gun humpers that say that it has NO effect on gun violence. This isn't a suggestion to disarm the American people, as silly as the 2nd amendment is (in the context that it has been interpreted, that is) they have their rights. But it's utter lunacy to think that means they should walk around with whatever weapon they want, without any regulation or restriction.

Again, there are PLENTY of restrictions and regulations, and 99.99% of the people who follow them go about thier business and nothing bad happens.

The vast majority of gun crime is done by criminals, who commited crimes other than the possesion of a gun. Whenever someone proposes a new gun control law, all it does is impact people following the rules, and does ZERO to impact people who are already breaking the law.

Let me also state I do not currently own a firearm, however I still want the right to get one if I so choose. And until the consitution is changed I have that right, no matter what a legislature or whatever court is currently hearing cases related to guns says.

The NRA supports laws against felons owning guns. It is a huge provider of the very safety courses often required fo concealed carry. It is perfectly fine with a national background check system provided it is quick and a minor impediment to law abiding gun owners. What it is against is cosmetic laws that do nothing to answer the crime problem, and impacts only law abiding citizens.

 

[Cheddarmelon]

You brought suicide into the discussion by referencing deaths both intentional and accidental, which includes suicide. The point is guns are just a part of the equation when it comes to violence in society.

agreed. They are only a part. But it's a huge part in America. that SHOULD concern people. And since deaths by gun are demonstratively lower in countries that favour gun control, that SHOULD say something.

It's only the NRA hacks and the gun humpers that say that it has NO effect on gun violence. This isn't a suggestion to disarm the American people, as silly as the 2nd amendment is (in the context that it has been interpreted, that is) they have their rights. But it's utter lunacy to think that means they should walk around with whatever weapon they want, without any regulation or restriction.

Again, there are PLENTY of restrictions and regulations, and 99.99% of the people who follow them go about thier business and nothing bad happens.

The vast majority of gun crime is done by criminals, who commited crimes other than the possesion of a gun. Whenever someone proposes a new gun control law, all it does is impact people following the rules, and does ZERO to impact people who are already breaking the law.

Let me also state I do not currently own a firearm, however I still want the right to get one if I so choose. And until the consitution is changed I have that right, no matter what a legislature or whatever court is currently hearing cases related to guns says.

The NRA supports laws against felons owning guns. It is a huge provider of the very safety courses often required fo concealed carry. It is perfectly fine with a national background check system provided it is quick and a minor impediment to law abiding gun owners. What it is against is cosmetic laws that do nothing to answer the crime problem, and impacts only law abiding citizens.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that relatively unrestricted Gun access, has created a nation where deaths by gun are exponentially higher than countries that are stricter in application of laws regarding guns.

It's an outright fact.

and yes, you can say gun crime is commited by criminals... because shooting someone is a fucking crime!

 

[LordBrownTrout]

the focus of the argument is guns, not suicides. If people are unhappier in Japan, that's one thing. But strictly speaking for homicides by Gun, and suicides by gun, America takes the cake. Arguing that "other" problems have any relevance to the discussion of gun violence, is like rebutting someone who says your car doesn't work, by saying "yeah, our car doesn't run, but yours smells like cheese."

You brought suicide into the discussion by referencing deaths both intentional and accidental, which includes suicide. The point is guns are just a part of the equation when it comes to violence in society.

agreed. They are only a part. But it's a huge part in America. that SHOULD concern people. And since deaths by gun are demonstratively lower in countries that favour gun control, that SHOULD say something.

It's only the NRA hacks and the gun humpers that say that it has NO effect on gun violence. This isn't a suggestion to disarm the American people, as silly as the 2nd amendment is (in the context that it has been interpreted, that is) they have their rights. But it's utter lunacy to think that means they should walk around with whatever weapon they want, without any regulation or restriction.

We have way too much gun control right now.

 

[martybegan]

agreed. They are only a part. But it's a huge part in America. that SHOULD concern people. And since deaths by gun are demonstratively lower in countries that favour gun control, that SHOULD say something.

It's only the NRA hacks and the gun humpers that say that it has NO effect on gun violence. This isn't a suggestion to disarm the American people, as silly as the 2nd amendment is (in the context that it has been interpreted, that is) they have their rights. But it's utter lunacy to think that means they should walk around with whatever weapon they want, without any regulation or restriction.

Again, there are PLENTY of restrictions and regulations, and 99.99% of the people who follow them go about thier business and nothing bad happens.

The vast majority of gun crime is done by criminals, who commited crimes other than the possesion of a gun. Whenever someone proposes a new gun control law, all it does is impact people following the rules, and does ZERO to impact people who are already breaking the law.

Let me also state I do not currently own a firearm, however I still want the right to get one if I so choose. And until the consitution is changed I have that right, no matter what a legislature or whatever court is currently hearing cases related to guns says.

The NRA supports laws against felons owning guns. It is a huge provider of the very safety courses often required fo concealed carry. It is perfectly fine with a national background check system provided it is quick and a minor impediment to law abiding gun owners. What it is against is cosmetic laws that do nothing to answer the crime problem, and impacts only law abiding citizens.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that relatively unrestricted Gun access, has created a nation where deaths by gun are exponentially higher than countries that are stricter in application of laws regarding guns.

It's an outright fact.

and yes, you can say gun crime is commited by criminals... because shooting someone is a fucking crime!

and yet the overall homicide rates are only increased by a 2x-5x ratio, not 10x with just guns considered. So where did those extra deaths come from? From killing people without using a gun.

And you miss the point on criminals. My friend is a DA, and what I mean is that in 95% of the cases the victim of a violent crime often has a rap sheet just as long as the perpetrator. Most crime is criminal on criminal. So you have people who break the law without guns involved at all, how do you expect them to follow gun laws?

 

[Cheddarmelon]

You brought suicide into the discussion by referencing deaths both intentional and accidental, which includes suicide. The point is guns are just a part of the equation when it comes to violence in society.

agreed. They are only a part. But it's a huge part in America. that SHOULD concern people. And since deaths by gun are demonstratively lower in countries that favour gun control, that SHOULD say something.

It's only the NRA hacks and the gun humpers that say that it has NO effect on gun violence. This isn't a suggestion to disarm the American people, as silly as the 2nd amendment is (in the context that it has been interpreted, that is) they have their rights. But it's utter lunacy to think that means they should walk around with whatever weapon they want, without any regulation or restriction.

We have way too much gun control right now.

Sure thing, Cletus.

 

[catzmeow]

I should probably snip our facebook conversation and post it here, but I'm too lazy.

Guns are scary! ZOMG! Guns!!!!!

Politicians are stupid about 106% of the time.

 

[catzmeow]

I guess I'm not that lazy...

If the money were going to fund more cops on the beat, more prosecutors for violent cases, or more adults to work with the kids who engage in acts of violence, that would be something I could at least partially support, but damn.

As far as the criminals involved...The Cure Violence program in Chicago has obtained measurable results at reducing the violence: Effectiveness | Proven to Reduce Violence | Cure Violence. There are multiple effective anti-violence strategies out there that produce measurable reductions in violence and crime. The problem is that approaches like Cure Violence take hard work and partnerships, over the long haul, and we tend to lack the discipline in America to keep doing the hard stuff. We always seem to want the easy fixes...like taxing bullets.

 

[GuyPinestra]

How about we take away privacy and anonymity and document all gun, ammo, and accessory purchases and document all people who have a gun. Have an unregistered weapon? Thats a crime, and should be punishable.


Instead of infringing on constitutional rights, they should deal with it like this.

How about you back the fuck off my 2nd Amendment rights?

 

[nitroz]

How about we take away privacy and anonymity and document all gun, ammo, and accessory purchases and document all people who have a gun. Have an unregistered weapon? Thats a crime, and should be punishable.


Instead of infringing on constitutional rights, they should deal with it like this.

How about we lift ALL laws that infringe on the second amendment and make it legal for anyone to carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

If I was a criminal, I'd feel pretty apprehensive knowing that any person I might try to jack could be packing.

You anti America, constitution hating leftists simply think backwards. It's already proven your way doesn't work.

There is a right to "Bare arms", but NOTHING in the constitution says that we can't set regulations to assure the well being of people WHILE letting people have guns.

 

[martybegan]

How about we take away privacy and anonymity and document all gun, ammo, and accessory purchases and document all people who have a gun. Have an unregistered weapon? Thats a crime, and should be punishable.


Instead of infringing on constitutional rights, they should deal with it like this.

How about we lift ALL laws that infringe on the second amendment and make it legal for anyone to carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

If I was a criminal, I'd feel pretty apprehensive knowing that any person I might try to jack could be packing.

You anti America, constitution hating leftists simply think backwards. It's already proven your way doesn't work.

There is a right to "Bare arms", but NOTHING in the constitution says that we can't set regulations to assure the well being of people WHILE letting people have guns.

and there are plenty of regulations in place to do that. The ones most progressives want to add do nothing to improve your safety, and only place onerous INFRINGMENTS on law abiding citizens.

 

[hjmick]

How about we take away privacy and anonymity and document all gun, ammo, and accessory purchases and document all people who have a gun. Have an unregistered weapon? Thats a crime, and should be punishable.


Instead of infringing on constitutional rights, they should deal with it like this.

How about no fucking way?

 

[mal]

How about we take away privacy and anonymity and document all gun, ammo, and accessory purchases and document all people who have a gun. Have an unregistered weapon? Thats a crime, and should be punishable.


Instead of infringing on constitutional rights, they should deal with it like this.

How about we lift ALL laws that infringe on the second amendment and make it legal for anyone to carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

If I was a criminal, I'd feel pretty apprehensive knowing that any person I might try to jack could be packing.

You anti America, constitution hating leftists simply think backwards. It's already proven your way doesn't work.

There is a right to "Bare arms", but NOTHING in the constitution says that we can't set regulations to assure the well being of people WHILE letting people have guns.

It doesn't say a lot of things in the Constitution...

Careful with that Axe Eugene.



peace...