CDZ Gun Lovers, complete this sentence

[2aguy]

You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....

He was right, though. Just about every gun nut on the thread deflected to pissing around about definitions rather than addressing the question.

Wrong.......it isn't a deflection...he lied. He tried to pin us to a weapon that doesn't exist for almost all Americans.....lying is not a way to have a debate.

 

[cnm]

You guys keep using gun murder as your fact...when that isn't the measure......

Tell that to the Florida students.

 

[Nosmo King]

You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....

He was right, though. Just about every gun nut on the thread deflected to pissing around about definitions rather than addressing the question.

Wrong.......it isn't a deflection...he lied. He tried to pin us to a weapon that doesn't exist for almost all Americans.....lying is not a way to have a debate.

I have addressed this clearly, concisely and without equivocation.

I want to know the necessity for such weapons in our society.

 

[cnm]

Wrong.......it isn't a deflection...he lied. He tried to pin us to a weapon that doesn't exist for almost all Americans.....lying is not a way to have a debate.

Deflecting is a way to avoid the debate. Well done.

 

[sartre play]

Thought it was a simple question, requiring a simple answer.
own guns, don't own the type of gun you are referencing.

 

[2aguy]

You guys keep using gun murder as your fact...when that isn't the measure......

Tell that to the Florida students.

More kids are killed by cars than guns.....tell that to the car makers....

 

[2aguy]

You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....

He was right, though. Just about every gun nut on the thread deflected to pissing around about definitions rather than addressing the question.

Wrong.......it isn't a deflection...he lied. He tried to pin us to a weapon that doesn't exist for almost all Americans.....lying is not a way to have a debate.

I have addressed this clearly, concisely and without equivocation.

I want to know the necessity for such weapons in our society.

I answered it...you may have missed it..

Now, if the question statement is, I need an AR-15____.

Then, I need an AR-15 to protect my family from criminals and the government.....



and as history shows the greatest murderer in history is government.....the German people and the people of Europe gave up their guns after World War 1 following the exact same arguments you guys make all the time...

They don't need weapons of war.

The police are there and will protect them.

The government wants guns registered just so they know who has them.

Turning in guns will make you safer.

All of these arguments were made before.....you don't know this because you don't understand history.

this happened in the 1920s......at the end of the 1930s.........the German socialists began murdering 12 million people throughout Europe and into Russia.....all of them were unarmed and defenseless in the face of watching their families murdered.....women, and children.....even babies, murdered by gun and gas......

That is why we need AR- civilian rifles and all semi auto weapons.....had the Europeans not given up their guns the Germans could never have controlled the territory they captured.

One country had weapons of war for civilians.....they had guns you want banned and confiscated...Switzerland...they had 435,000 people armed with rifles and ready to resist any German invasion.....and hitler's military told him it would cost too much to attack the Swiss.....and there was no Holocaust in Switzerland.....

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS



That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"



The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.



The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.



Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.



While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

 

[2aguy]

You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....

He was right, though. Just about every gun nut on the thread deflected to pissing around about definitions rather than addressing the question.

Wrong.......it isn't a deflection...he lied. He tried to pin us to a weapon that doesn't exist for almost all Americans.....lying is not a way to have a debate.

I have addressed this clearly, concisely and without equivocation.

I want to know the necessity for such weapons in our society.

And more.....

I need an AR-15 and all other semi auto weapons to protect my family and my country from ever having to experience this......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-in-gun-free-nations/?utm_term=.55b248a88569



Consider, for example, some of the deadliest mass shootings of the 20th century. As soon as the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union began on June 22, 1941, special SS units called Einsatzgruppen were deployed for mass killings. All the Jews or Gypsies (also known as Roma) in a village would be assembled and marched out of town. Then they would all be shot at once. (Yehuda Bauer, “Jewish Resistance in the Ukraine and Belarus during the Holocaust,” in Jewish Resistance Against the Nazis, Patrick Henry ed. [D. C.: Catholic University of America Press, 2014], pp. 485-93.)

--
Within a year, the 3,000 Einsatzgruppen, aided by several thousand helpers from the German police and military, had murdered about 1 million people, concentrating on small towns in formerly Soviet territory. (Hillary Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial, 1945–1958 [Cambridge, U. K.: Cambridge Univ. Pr., 2009], pp. 4–8; Reuben Ainsztein, Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe [London: Elek Books, 1974], pp. 222–25.) Einsatzgruppen mass shootings took place not only in today’s Russia but also in nations that the Soviet Communists had taken over, and which were then over-run by the Nazis: eastern Poland (taken by Stalin pursuant to the 1939 Nazi-Soviet Pact), Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

Because of psychological damage to the Einsatzgruppen, the Nazis attempted to replace mass shootings with mobile gas vans. But these did not work out well, partly because herding people into the gas vans required even closer contact with the victims than did mass shooting. (Earl, p. 7). Therefore, the Nazis invented extermination camps with huge gas chambers, which were more efficient at mass killing, and which created a larger physical (and, consequently, psychological) distance between the murderers and their victims.

In pre-WWII Poland and in the Soviet Union, “no firearm, not even a shotgun,” could be lawfully possessed without a government permit. For most people, “such permits were impossible to obtain.” (Ainsztein, p. 304; see also Chaika Grossman, The Underground Army: Fighters of Bialystok Ghetto, trans. Schmuel Beeri [N.Y.: Holocaust Library, 1987; first pub. in Israel 1965], p. 3.) “Not to allow the peasants to have arms” had been the policy “from time immemorial.” (Ainsztein, p. 304.) In this regard, Lenin and Stalin carried on the Russian czarist tradition, as they did in many other ways. (See generally Eugene Lyons, Stalin: Czar of All the Russias [Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott, 1940]; Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar [N.Y.: Alfred A. Knopf, 2004].)

---

During the chaotic early weeks on the Eastern Front, the Nazis successfully deterred most Jews from attempting to scavenge arms. As in every nation conquered by the Third Reich, being caught with a firearm meant instant death for oneself and one’s family, and perhaps even for others, in reprisal. This was especially so for Jews. Disarmed, the Jews and Roma were soon destroyed.

Victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by organized government are just as dead as victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by a lone nut. Adopt the broadest definition of “mass shooting” that you want (e.g., three victims wounded, one killed). Add up all the mass shooting deaths from lunatics, organized crime, jihadist cells and ordinary criminals. The global, historical total of mass shooting deaths will be gruesome, and it will also be small compared to the total of mass shooting deaths perpetrated by criminal governments — including Fascists, Communists and non-ideological tyrants.

University of Hawaii political science professor R.J. Rummel compiled demographic data regarding genocide. He estimated the total number of victims of mass murders by governments from 1901 to 1990 to be 169,198,000. (Rudolph J. Rummel, Death by Government [Piscataway, N.J.: Transaction Pub., 2d ed. 2000].) This figure does not include deaths from wars; it includes only deliberate mass murder of civilian populations.

Because Rummel was only studying situations in which governments were engaged in major efforts to exterminate a large number of people, his 169 million victims figure does not include smaller-scale mass murders, including mass shootings. For example, if government agents shoot up a political rally, or attack an opposition newspaper, killing dozens of people, those deaths would not be included in Rummel’s figures.

 

[2aguy]

You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....

He was right, though. Just about every gun nut on the thread deflected to pissing around about definitions rather than addressing the question.

Wrong.......it isn't a deflection...he lied. He tried to pin us to a weapon that doesn't exist for almost all Americans.....lying is not a way to have a debate.

I have addressed this clearly, concisely and without equivocation.

I want to know the necessity for such weapons in our society.

I need an AR-15 and all other Semi auto weapons, which include revolvers, so that we never have to face a time where criminals with the help of police and the military murder our citizens....


This Is What Happens to a Disarmed Populace: Mexico Home to 29,168 Murders in 2017 - The Truth About Guns

But Mexico security analyst Alejandro Hope said Mexico’s murder rate is probably higher than the Interior Department statistics show, because the department does the per 100,000 count based on the number of murder investigations, not the number of victims, and a killing may result in more than one victim.

Hope says the real homicide rate is probably around 24 per 100,000.




----

Borderland Homicides Show Mexico's Gun Control Has Failed

On the other hand, Chihuahua and Texas are very big places. Perhaps if we take a more detailed look at the counties right on the border, we'll get a better feel for how things look at the border.
Thanks to Omar Garcia Ponce and Hannah Postel at the Center for Global Development, the work's already been done for me. Here is a map of the border at the county/municipality level:


Source: Center for Global Development
The general scenario remains the same. In fact, the borderland on the US side of the border have fewer homicides than the US overall. The authors note:
The map [above] illustrates the striking disparity between homicide rates on each side of the border. In 2012 (the most recent year available for all locations), Mexican border municipalities experienced 34.5 murders for every 100,000 people. By contrast, the homicide rate in US border counties was only 1.4, far below the US national average (4.7), and a tiny fraction of that experienced by their Southern neighbors. While almost half of the Mexican municipalities along the border experienced more than 40 murders per 100,000 people in 2012 (176 in Tamaulipas’ Ciudad Mier), the highest homicide rate in the US border counties was 12.9 (Yuma, AZ). The next most violent county experienced only 5.4 murders per 100,000 people. Notably, some of the safest locations in the United States are contiguous to many of the most dangerous places in Mexico. Most striking is the contrast between Ciudad Juárez and El Paso, two large cities that constitute a binational metropolitan area. Once called “the murder capital of the world,” Mexico’s Ciudad Juárez is only 300 feet from El Paso, “America’s safest city.” In 2012, Ciudad Juárez had 58 homicides per 100,000 people, while El Paso experienced fewer than one (0.6).
So why is there such an immense difference here?

Restrictive Gun Laws in Mexico

The pre-packaged retort to this phenomena often repeated in the media is that the US causes the high homicide rates in Mexico by exporting guns to Mexico. We're told that criminals go into the US, buy guns legally in Texas (for example) and then sell the guns illegally to cartels in Mexico.
Dave Kopel has shown that this claim isn't true. But, even if it were true, it wouldn't explain much by itself since we're left asking ourselves why criminals don' just do the same thing to the same homicidal effect in the United States. If it's so fruitful for violent criminals to buy guns in the US and sell them to organized crime rings, why aren't those criminals doing the same thing in the US?
Well, the answer is the criminals probably are are well armed in the US, and have a lot of guns just like criminals in Mexico do. The difference in actual crimes carried out, however, likely lies in the fact that law abiding Mexicans have been disarmed, while law abiding Americans have not.
Gun laws are very

 

[Indeependent]

To admire the art and engineering close up that went into it's design and creation.

 

[Vandalshandle]

National Rifle Assoc.
Washington, DC.

Gentlemen,

Please send me a replacement membership card. Your records will show that I have supported your organization for years. Your organization sponsors a gun program at my school, and my marksmanship has consistently been among the highest in the program.

Unfortunately, this county has robbed me of, not only my 2nd amendment rights, but also of my membership card in your organization. To add insult to injury, Best Western no longer gives me a discount at their hotels based on my membership in the NRA. This country has come to a sorry state when a well regulated militia is prohibited from carrying a weapon.

Sincerely,
Nickolas Cruz

PS. Please send me a decal for my cell wall.

 

[Indeependent]

National Rifle Assoc.
Washington, DC.

Gentlemen,

Please send me a replacement membership card. Your records will show that I have supported your organization for years. Your organization sponsors a gun program at my school, and my marksmanship has consistently been among the highest in the program.

Unfortunately, this county has robbed me of, not only my 2nd amendment rights, but also of my membership card in your organization. To add insult to injury, Best Western no longer gives me a discount at their hotels based on my membership in the NRA. This country has come to a sorry state when a well regulated militia is prohibited from carrying a weapon.

Sincerely,
Nickolas Cruz

PS. Please send me a decal for my cell wall.

Any bids on eBay yet?

 

[cnm]

More kids are killed by cars than guns.....tell that to the car makers....

If you want to pretend gun murder isn't the topic, go to it.

 

[cnm]

Please...try to think before you post.....murder is not the measure.....

Firearm homicides is the measure of Florida school killings.

 

[2aguy]

Please...try to think before you post.....murder is not the measure.....

Firearm homicides is the measure of Florida school killings.

No....because Florida has the most concealed carry permits....and their crime rate is going down, not up.....

Since that Florida school was a true, gun free zone...since the sheriffs from the democrat controlled sheriffs office refused to engage the shooter.....the gun free zone status is the actual factor you want to look at.

 

[2aguy]

More kids are killed by cars than guns.....tell that to the car makers....

If you want to pretend gun murder isn't the topic, go to it.

Is it dead kids by murder, or dead kids by number....

If you car about kids dying, you need to focus on cars far more than guns...since cars are the leading....the leading, cause of death of kids.....way more than guns....

You don't care about dead kids.....you just hate guns....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016: Kids ( <1 to age 14)

Total guns: ......74

Total Cars: 1,261








Suffocation: 1,215

<1.....1,023
1-4..... 118
5-9..... 35
10-14.... 39
Drowning: 713

<1.....38
1-4....425
5-9.....147
10-14..103

Poisoning: 84

<1.....9
1-4....34
5-9....13
10-14....28

Traffic: 1,261

<1........88
1-4.......334
5-9........384
10-14.....455

Guns: 74

<1......1
1-4.....34
5-9.....16
10-14....23

Under age drinking:

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

Each year, approximately 5,000 young people under the age of 21 die as a result of underage drinking; this includes about 1,900 deaths from motor vehicle crashes, 1,600 as a result of homicides, 300 from suicide, as well as hundreds from other injuries such as falls, burns, and drownings (1–5).

 

[WillowTree]

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.

I’ll respond with my own personal experience, however anecdotal and subjective.

I own three AR platform rifles, two AK platform rifles, one AK platform shotgun, and one HK91/CETME platform rifle.

I also own a number of revolvers, pistols, bolt action rifles, and pump action shotguns.

I’m a collector, I enjoy the shooting sports – target shooting in particular, pursuing that elusive sub-MOA group. Indeed, AR 15s are designed to be accurate and are excellent target rifles, they are likely among the most accurate semi-automatic rifles available.

Do I have a ‘need’ for these firearms? No, save that of an advocation I enjoy.

However, I do live in a rural part of my state located in Hurricane Alley, where an AK 47 would be an appropriate means of self-defense should looters attempt to enter my property and do what looters do.

But otherwise, no – no ‘need.’

I’m also a responsible gun owner – all my firearms are properly secured in a safe with a cable lock or padlock placed in the ejection port and magazine well of each rifle, pistol, and the AK platform shotgun.

And that’s the proverbial rub: as a responsible, law-abiding gun owner I shouldn’t be compelled to surrender firearms that I ensure to be safely secured, and that I use in a safe and appropriate manner.

Moreover, that some gun owners might be reckless and irresponsible with their firearms is not ‘justification’ to deny me access to AR platform rifles, to argue that it does justify ‘outlawing’ AR platform rifles fails as a guilt by association fallacy.

Last, I fully acknowledge certain facts with regard to gun ownership: that my guns are more likely to kill me or a family member rather than an intruder; that guns do not act as a ‘deterrent’ to crime and gun violence; that owning guns has nothing to do with ‘liberty’ or ‘freedom’; that the Second Amendment right is not ‘absolute’; that firearm regulations and restrictions are necessary, proper, and Constitutional; that additional measures are needed to increase gun safety.

Also a fact is that less than 2 percent of gun crimes are committed with long guns, even fewer with AR/AK platform rifles, rendering their ban pointless and ineffective, however Constitutional.

Needless to say we’ll not agree on this issue if your goal is to ban the sale and possession of AR/AK platform rifles; but perhaps my post helps illustrate that not all gun enthusiasts are rabid, ignorant, and ridiculous rightwing ideologues and extremists.

 

[Correll]

I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.

I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________. because I have a right to one, and if I give an inch, you libs will take them all.


All the rights, not all the guns.

But yes, the guns too. Of course.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.

define assault rifle