CDZ Gun Lovers, complete this sentence

Darkwind, post: 19379969
No. I will not lay aside My actual Constitutional Right to own firearms to satisfy an agenda driven discussion point.


Why can't you own all, without restriction and regulation, any type of modern combat firearms available today if you have a Constitutional Right to own them?

Your argument has a really big M16 size hole in it.
 
What about you and your buddies joining a well regulated militia?

I'm a one-man militia and I'm really regular. Lots of fiber in my diet.

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What is an assault rifle?

95% of all shootings, and all gun deaths, are NOT by AR-15's and AK-47's. They are by handguns.

So what is an assault rifle? Please give specific definitions so I can play.
What is an assault rifle?
Rules are to restrictive... Until we can agree just exactly what an assault rifle is, I can't play...
Try defining "assault weapon" in your own terms and then telling us, given whatever be your definition of an assault rifle, why you absolutely need one (or more).

To help you with crafting your definition, you may find the following resources of use:


Now you done it. From your link:

DOD and US Army: "Assault rifles are short, compact, select-fire (i.e. both semi- automatic and full-automatic) weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."

But hey, what does the US ARMY know compared to our typical assault rifle cult member who post here trying to impress us with their knowledgeable about their favorite idealized human killing toy.

Key phrase

select-fire
 
Well, if a feller is assaulting yew with an assault rifle ewe wouldn’t want to throw spitballs at him would ya? Ever heard the term fight fire with fire? Did I win a cookie?
 
I guess whatever the OP decides constitutes an "assault rifle" it's the same answer:

Because the 2nd amendment says I can.


Are you in a well regulated militia? Who is regulating you?

Actually the 2nd Amendnent does not say you can. Over the decades Congresses and judges have rendered interpretations that say you can.

They have also defined the point where you can't own wespons designed for use in combat.

So your precious idealized favorite war toy is on a fine line and in a precariously unsafe position if society, morally and politically decides, as a whole, to adjust the ban on the sale and possession of war toys to include the ones that were banned before and could easily be banned again.

You are not in a well regulated militia are you.

The 2nd Amendment says nothing about you then.

Better start organizing but remember .... regulated by whom?

You might end up more regulated than you are right now by citing the
Assault rifles are short, compact, select-fire (i.e. both semi- automatic and full-automatic) weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges.

Why are you banned from owning and stockpiling RPG's for example?

You must believe the 2nd Amendment says you can. Why don't you have that right? Why have you stopped at a right to possess certain types of assault rifles?

Are you in a well regulated militia?


no need to be in one.

The 2nd Amendment says nothing about you then.

perhaps you should read the ENTIRE Amendment.
 
I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.
Assault rifles are heavily regulated by the government and no one can just go buy one. They aren't for sale at the vast vast majority of gun stores. So perhaps, like most of the gun hating media fed here, you should get you some facts.
 
What is an assault rifle?

95% of all shootings, and all gun deaths, are NOT by AR-15's and AK-47's. They are by handguns.

So what is an assault rifle? Please give specific definitions so I can play.
What is an assault rifle?
Rules are to restrictive... Until we can agree just exactly what an assault rifle is, I can't play...
Try defining "assault weapon" in your own terms and then telling us, given whatever be your definition of an assault rifle, why you absolutely need one (or more).

To help you with crafting your definition, you may find the following resources of use:


Now you done it. From your link:

DOD and US Army: "Assault rifles are short, compact, select-fire (i.e. both semi- automatic and full-automatic) weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."

But hey, what does the US ARMY know compared to our typical assault rifle cult member who post here trying to impress us with their knowledgeable about their favorite idealized human killing toy.

Key phrase

select-fire
??? I'm sorry. I don't quite get your meaning. The Army's definition has in it multiple key terms whereby the definition would be materially different were they not included. Thankfully, the definition the Army uses includes clarification of what "select-fire" to the Army and in its definition means. Less clear, at least to my layman's eyes/mind is what it means for a rifle to be "short" and "compact." I've never seen a rifle of any sort that to me looked short or compact, but then my frame of reference consists of shotguns, handguns, toy water guns and air-guns that shoot pellets. From reading the Army's definition, I inferred that there must be some sort of rifle that is neither short nor compact, but can't attest to having seen one and known it to be, as rifles go, "long" and "not compact."
 
select fire

shoots:

one round

3 round burst

shoots til magazine is empty, or finger removed from trigger.

over the counter ARs are not set up that way

Assault weapons are.
 
I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

assault rifle
noun
noun: assault rifle; plural noun: assault rifles
  1. a lightweight rifle developed from the sub-machine gun, which may be set to fire automatically or semi-automatically.

I don't own an assault rifle because the Federal taxes on it are outrageous.

If you don't know the difference between an 'assault rifle' and an over the counter semi-automatic rifle then you have no business giving any opinions on the subject.


That is one way of stifling debate, I suppose. But it is like saying if you don't know the length of tacks used by the upholsterer, you cannot comment on the quality of the armchair. Or if you don't know the correct timing sequence for a 305 small block V-8, you should not comment on car safety.

The difference is people are not trying to ban armchairs and V-8 engines in cars. When you want to deny something to a person, you probably should know exactly what you are talking about.
 
I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.


What assault rifle? The AR-15 is a civilian rifle.....as are all semi automatic weapons including pistols....

Now, if the question statement is, I need an AR-15____.

Then, I need an AR-15 to protect my family from criminals and the government.....



and as history shows the greatest murderer in history is government.....the German people and the people of Europe gave up their guns after World War 1 following the exact same arguments you guys make all the time...

They don't need weapons of war.

The police are there and will protect them.

The government wants guns registered just so they know who has them.

Turning in guns will make you safer.

All of these arguments were made before.....you don't know this because you don't understand history.

this happened in the 1920s......at the end of the 1930s.........the German socialists began murdering 12 million people throughout Europe and into Russia.....all of them were unarmed and defenseless in the face of watching their families murdered.....women, and children.....even babies, murdered by gun and gas......

That is why we need AR- civilian rifles and all semi auto weapons.....had the Europeans not given up their guns the Germans could never have controlled the territory they captured.

One country had weapons of war for civilians.....they had guns you want banned and confiscated...Switzerland...they had 435,000 people armed with rifles and ready to resist any German invasion.....and hitler's military told him it would cost too much to attack the Swiss.....and there was no Holocaust in Switzerland.....

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS



That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"



The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.



The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.



Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.



While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.
 
I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.

No other nation suffers this level of gun violence.

Wrong...this is not true......Europe routinely faces gun violence even though the have banned and confiscated guns...their criminals get guns easily as do their terrorists.......Britain, an island, gun crime is up every single year...it is a more violent country than the United States...and gun crime keeps going up.....

Australia, gun crime going up.

Canada, gun crime going up.

Mexico, across our border, the drug cartels with their government allies, the police and military are using guns to slaughter unarmed civilians in the 10s of thousands...upwards of 100,000 by one count....

We need semi-auto rifles to protect our families from criminals and government.
 
As I wrote in the OP, I don't want to get bogged down in semantics. There are already threads on this board trying to arrive at a definition.

And, believe me when I say, 'assault rifle' and 'assault weapon' are phrases desperately in need of definitions.

But, in service of this particular thread, let us call an assault rifle an AR-15, an AK-47 and any other rifles commonly used by mass shooters. Rifles with the firing rate, the particular lethality of the rounds fired and the intended design purpose.

In the last assault weapons ban legislation, the debate was muddled by cosmetics. Grips, stocks and flash suppresses have no bearing on the factors that make assault rifles so very lethal.


If you are talking killling....then you need to include actual Assault Trucks.....since not one of our mass public shooting ever ended with more murder than the attack by a muslim terrorist in Nice, France that murdered 86 people.....

If you want to be honest...rental trucks are deadlier than all rifles....in all of the mass shootings in this country....
 
As I wrote in the OP, I don't want to get bogged down in semantics. There are already threads on this board trying to arrive at a definition.

And, believe me when I say, 'assault rifle' and 'assault weapon' are phrases desperately in need of definitions.

But, in service of this particular thread, let us call an assault rifle an AR-15, an AK-47 and any other rifles commonly used by mass shooters. Rifles with the firing rate, the particular lethality of the rounds fired and the intended design purpose.

In the last assault weapons ban legislation, the debate was muddled by cosmetics. Grips, stocks and flash suppresses have no bearing on the factors that make assault rifles so very lethal.


As I wrote in the OP, I don't want to get bogged down in semantics.

You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....
 
I absolutely need an assault rifle because_________.

Lay aside what you perceive as a constitutional right. Lay aside any obfuscation over the verbal semantics (don't try to define 'assault rifle').

Simply justify your need of an assault rifle.

Perhaps if we fully understand your need for one or two or thirty of them, we could understand why assault weapons are, indeed, a necessity. Show us the virtue of the assault rifle. Why are they good?

Some folks have good experiences with guns. Some folks are the sinue and bone of America's gun culture. Some folks are true sportsmen and women and enjoy the outdoors and their love of the hunt. Some folks are dedicated target shooters keen on hitting their mark be it paper or a clay pigeon. I fully support these wholesome and healthy activities.

But some folks have had tragic experiences with guns. Some are the survivors of gun violence. Some are the victims of gun violence. Some folks have sadly lost loved ones to gun violence. And some live in neighborhoods which tragically experience gun violence on an all too regular basis. Please have empathy for them. They have suffered too long under the threat of the havoc guns bring into their lives.

We have had far too many mass shootings in this nation. No other nation suffers this level of gun violence. We are not beset with a greater number cases of mental illness than other nations. There is something foul about the numbers of shooting victims here compared with other natione in the developed world.

What do you suppose is our unique American problem?

So please, as sincerely as possible, answer this simple question: 'I absolutely need an assault rifle because_____'.

Let us all understand.


I need an AR-15 and all other semi auto weapons to protect my family and my country from ever having to experience this......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-in-gun-free-nations/?utm_term=.55b248a88569



Consider, for example, some of the deadliest mass shootings of the 20th century. As soon as the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union began on June 22, 1941, special SS units called Einsatzgruppen were deployed for mass killings. All the Jews or Gypsies (also known as Roma) in a village would be assembled and marched out of town. Then they would all be shot at once. (Yehuda Bauer, “Jewish Resistance in the Ukraine and Belarus during the Holocaust,” in Jewish Resistance Against the Nazis, Patrick Henry ed. [D. C.: Catholic University of America Press, 2014], pp. 485-93.)

--

Within a year, the 3,000 Einsatzgruppen, aided by several thousand helpers from the German police and military, had murdered about 1 million people, concentrating on small towns in formerly Soviet territory. (Hillary Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial, 1945–1958 [Cambridge, U. K.: Cambridge Univ. Pr., 2009], pp. 4–8; Reuben Ainsztein, Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe [London: Elek Books, 1974], pp. 222–25.) Einsatzgruppen mass shootings took place not only in today’s Russia but also in nations that the Soviet Communists had taken over, and which were then over-run by the Nazis: eastern Poland (taken by Stalin pursuant to the 1939 Nazi-Soviet Pact), Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

Because of psychological damage to the Einsatzgruppen, the Nazis attempted to replace mass shootings with mobile gas vans. But these did not work out well, partly because herding people into the gas vans required even closer contact with the victims than did mass shooting. (Earl, p. 7). Therefore, the Nazis invented extermination camps with huge gas chambers, which were more efficient at mass killing, and which created a larger physical (and, consequently, psychological) distance between the murderers and their victims.

In pre-WWII Poland and in the Soviet Union, “no firearm, not even a shotgun,” could be lawfully possessed without a government permit. For most people, “such permits were impossible to obtain.” (Ainsztein, p. 304; see also Chaika Grossman, The Underground Army: Fighters of Bialystok Ghetto, trans. Schmuel Beeri [N.Y.: Holocaust Library, 1987; first pub. in Israel 1965], p. 3.) “Not to allow the peasants to have arms” had been the policy “from time immemorial.” (Ainsztein, p. 304.) In this regard, Lenin and Stalin carried on the Russian czarist tradition, as they did in many other ways. (See generally Eugene Lyons, Stalin: Czar of All the Russias [Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott, 1940]; Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar [N.Y.: Alfred A. Knopf, 2004].)

---

During the chaotic early weeks on the Eastern Front, the Nazis successfully deterred most Jews from attempting to scavenge arms. As in every nation conquered by the Third Reich, being caught with a firearm meant instant death for oneself and one’s family, and perhaps even for others, in reprisal. This was especially so for Jews. Disarmed, the Jews and Roma were soon destroyed.

Victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by organized government are just as dead as victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by a lone nut. Adopt the broadest definition of “mass shooting” that you want (e.g., three victims wounded, one killed). Add up all the mass shooting deaths from lunatics, organized crime, jihadist cells and ordinary criminals. The global, historical total of mass shooting deaths will be gruesome, and it will also be small compared to the total of mass shooting deaths perpetrated by criminal governments — including Fascists, Communists and non-ideological tyrants.

University of Hawaii political science professor R.J. Rummel compiled demographic data regarding genocide. He estimated the total number of victims of mass murders by governments from 1901 to 1990 to be 169,198,000. (Rudolph J. Rummel, Death by Government [Piscataway, N.J.: Transaction Pub., 2d ed. 2000].) This figure does not include deaths from wars; it includes only deliberate mass murder of civilian populations.

Because Rummel was only studying situations in which governments were engaged in major efforts to exterminate a large number of people, his 169 million victims figure does not include smaller-scale mass murders, including mass shootings. For example, if government agents shoot up a political rally, or attack an opposition newspaper, killing dozens of people, those deaths would not be included in Rummel’s figures.
 
You don't want to get bogged down in "Semantics" because if you define things accurately, your entire thread goes down the toilet....
He was right, though. Just about every gun nut on the thread deflected to pissing around about definitions rather than addressing the question.
 
Australia, gun crime going up.

Canada, gun crime going up.
And whose firearm homicide rates are fractions of that of the US, stupidly cherry pick data as you may.


You guys keep using gun murder as your fact...when that isn't the measure......

We have more Americans owning and carrying guns than ever before since 1996...

Our gun murder rate went down 49%....showing that murder and gun ownership are not related.

Britain Banned and confiscated guns....their gun murder rate went up, then returned to the exact same level as before they took guns from law abiding gun owners....and their gun crime rate went up and continues to go up, 23 % across the entire country in 2016, and up 42% in London alone.....

By any measure......our owning and carrying guns didn't increase the gun crime or gun murder rate.....Britain banning guns did not lower the gun murder rate...

Please...try to think before you post.....murder is not the measure.....since our knife, club and empty hand murder rates are higher than their total murder rates...
 

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