Gun control

[pete]

I agree...if you want a concealed carry weapon you must have training....



Just think of all of the hours of training that criminals go though to carry their guns. Its mind blowing.

Dummies with guns get caught every day. You don't hear about the screw ups because they really don't make the news unless they are really stupid. the difference is when a criminal screws up and shoots an innocent victim or fucks up things for the police with their bumbling we attribute that to their actions. Again. look at zimmerman. had he done the right thing with his gun we would have never known about him even if a fight occurred. Because he went in there and shot an unarmed person we heard about it. In all honesty i do not think his motives were evil at all. He just wanted to protect his neighborhood, and he was not there to shoot a black kid. If he was a criminal our opinion of him would not change, but because he started off as a person doing good we see where things go wrong.

If zimmerman was getting his head pummeled by some huge kid who jumped him...and shot back in self defense... he did the right thing.


The point IS.... criminals don't have training or a license..and they carry guns. Anyone who wants to carry a gun should have the ability to do so with mandatory training to carry a gun. In TX if you want to conceal carry... you have to go to training, pass and be licensed to carry.

Correct and most all duck and shoot sideways.

 

[pete]

Dont want to hear any bullshit either! As y'all didnt mind arming the muslim bruthahood in egypt and probably want to arem the rebels in syria - but take ours away here in the US

 

[PratchettFan]

before I get into this i should say that i am pro-gun ownership, and i know many responsible gun owners and recognize the reasons for having firearms in society and agree with them.

However, there are certain areas and restrictions that do make sense, and the idea that everyone having guns would make things safer is a load of crap.

Since people are unaware i have spent a number of years at the high end opf the paintball industry. This has caused me to be involved with military and police training, and a lot of different combat training scenarios. I have a vast amount of experience with regular people simulating combat situations. Though it is true that these simulations are not actual life or death combat situations, the people in them react with fear of being hit and the pain involved the same way, and we even noticed that the higher the threat of pain the more the people reacted poorly.

Your normal; person who has not experienced or been trained to deal with combat situations has a few pretty standard reactions with a gun. One of these reactions is the tendency to blind fire. This is such a problem that a number of paintball fields i know discourage blind fire because even under simulated conditions it causes a dangerous situation. Another point is that rattles people cannot aim worth a fuck. I often joke that if you have someone scared the safest place to be is with the attacker. I have seen enough scared people turn and shoot their best friends that were coming up from a secure area to join them. Putting guns in the hands of these untrained fearful scared people is a terrible idea. This is why I think the ownership of combat guns, not hunting guns, should have extensive training required. Especially if you are going to carry those guns regularly. I have just seen so much dumbass bullshit by regular people with paintball guns to think handing a firearm to a person with no training is not a great idea.

Armed does not mean you are the police. It seems that way to many people feel that armed means you are the peacekeeper. No one hired gun owners, or trains them to deal with situations. Just for instance look at george zimmerman. Whether you believe he had a right to shoot or not, it is clear he approached the situation all wrong and someone died because of his stupidity. That gun is not a badge, and you are a hinderance to the real authorities because you have one. This is why responsible gun owners are not of the idea they would shoot the attacker dead, but would just want to get away and the gun is a last resort.

People have to understand most gun owners are very responsible. they are not cowboys or think they are cops when that are not. 99 percent of the people I know who have guns, and I run into a lot more people with guns because of my occupation, are stable good people who you would never know they even have a gun because they don't flaunt it. I agree that some of the wackjobs in the NRA really do gun owners a real disservive with their crazy rhetoric and reckless attitude.

I do think the purchase of a handgun or assault rifle should involve a lot more training.

I do agree with a lot of what you have to say. I'm just not sure it would have that great an impact.

Just reading a lot of the posts here you can tell that quite a few people have this movie playing in their head and they get the role of John Wayne. They hear about some situation or other and think to themselves, "If I had been there I would have stood up and taken the guy out." In reality, they would probably either hit the ground with everyone else or gotten themselves and others killed. I don't think a few rounds of paintball is going to take that away. It may be better than nothing, but the only people who understand what it is like to be shot at are people who have been shot at. And none of them think they are John Wayne.

For me, it really comes down to a balance between safety and freedom. I understand that is not a clear line and there is much room to determine how much of either is healthy for our society. If someone wants to carry a piece, then I think they should be able to so long as they have a permit and undergo whatever training the state requires. I know whatever that will be won't be enough to really qualify them. Personally, I don't carry because I just don't want to live my life ready for combat. Been there, done that, and I am not John Wayne. If something happens, that's why I carry insurance. It's a hazard of living in a free society.

 

[SniperFire]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

 

[Seawytch]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Funny how y'all always leave out the "well regulated" part...

 

[PratchettFan]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Why not quote the whole thing?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd amendment is about the security of the state.

 

[Listening]

I have always been a supporter of the 2nd Admendment and have owned many guns. These days I do not own a gun. Yet, I still support the ownership. I do, however, believe that if you need a license and a test to drive, the same should be true for owning a gun. Evenmore, I do not believe any longer in the need for individuals to have military style assault rifles. We live in a different world, one where there are many individuals amongst of the like of this Holmes character. It does not take an assault rifle to defend against them, but in their hands they are horrendous.

I am sorry, but the reality is that there are a ton of assault weapons out there that you never even know because their owners are not insane. I support a persons right to own them. I also recognize that one bad apple does not spoil the bunch. Whether or not it was legal I would imagine this person would have gotten the guns anyway. He was not going to act responsibly with it, and I don't really consider open gun laws to be the door that allowed this guy to do what he did.

As I have said in other places this could have had a much different outcome if people had not overlooked what must have been an obvious problem. This guy had an assault rifle, 2 handguns, a shotgun, a bulletproof vest, 2 chemical smoke bombs, and a gas mask. He also had orange hair. Sorry, but this was not a ninja attack.

Just like there are a "ton of polls" showing that Obama is not losing independents.

You've been outed as a liar.

So your statements here are meaningless.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Funny how y'all always leave out the "well regulated" part...

Why's that? The militia consist of private citizens Independent of the Federal government.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Why not quote the whole thing?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd amendment is about the security of the state.

The second Amendment is all about protecting the rights of American citizens from a tyrannical over reaching government
The government does not need a second amendment right to keep and bear arms.
the government has no rights.

 

[HomeInspect]

When are all these 2nd amendment advocates finally going to start defending the people from that intrustive police state government?

The answer is pretty obvious...never.

Anybody who imagines that guns in civilian hands is somehow preventing the government from turning into an authoritarian nightmare is clearly NOT paying attention.

"Never" maybe be the answer. But for the same reason a crook doesn't break into a house where a loaded gun may be pointed in his face. Those that are not paying attention are those that haven't noticed the government hasn't pushed the issue.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

before I get into this i should say that i am pro-gun ownership, and i know many responsible gun owners and recognize the reasons for having firearms in society and agree with them.

Why does everyone suddenly have a need to define themselves as pro gun while attempting to argue against them? Does this make sense to anyone?

However, there are certain areas and restrictions that do make sense, and the idea that everyone having guns would make things safer is a load of crap.

How, exactly, is it a load of crap? Do murders and armed robberies go up in areas that have looser gun control laws? Back up your position with something other than rhetoric and an appeal to your version of common sense.

Since people are unaware i have spent a number of years at the high end opf the paintball industry. This has caused me to be involved with military and police training, and a lot of different combat training scenarios. I have a vast amount of experience with regular people simulating combat situations. Though it is true that these simulations are not actual life or death combat situations, the people in them react with fear of being hit and the pain involved the same way, and we even noticed that the higher the threat of pain the more the people reacted poorly.

Most people prefer to avoid pain in none life threatening situations. Personally, I don't have years experience in paint ball, but I knew that without you blathering about paintball.

Your normal; person who has not experienced or been trained to deal with combat situations has a few pretty standard reactions with a gun. One of these reactions is the tendency to blind fire. This is such a problem that a number of paintball fields i know discourage blind fire because even under simulated conditions it causes a dangerous situation. Another point is that rattles people cannot aim worth a fuck. I often joke that if you have someone scared the safest place to be is with the attacker. I have seen enough scared people turn and shoot their best friends that were coming up from a secure area to join them. Putting guns in the hands of these untrained fearful scared people is a terrible idea. This is why I think the ownership of combat guns, not hunting guns, should have extensive training required. Especially if you are going to carry those guns regularly. I have just seen so much dumbass bullshit by regular people with paintball guns to think handing a firearm to a person with no training is not a great idea.

Good thing police never, ever react like that. If they did we would be able to find examples of police firing entire magazines at a suspect, reloading, and firing again, but only hitting the person with a small percentage of their shots.

If you had experience with real combat instead of paintball you would know that even trained people tend to react like that. The rare exceptions to that norm are the people that end up on SOF, not police. It would take years of hard work and expensive training to train this out of people, so much so that no one actually invests in it.

Armed does not mean you are the police. It seems that way to many people feel that armed means you are the peacekeeper. No one hired gun owners, or trains them to deal with situations. Just for instance look at george zimmerman. Whether you believe he had a right to shoot or not, it is clear he approached the situation all wrong and someone died because of his stupidity. That gun is not a badge, and you are a hinderance to the real authorities because you have one. This is why responsible gun owners are not of the idea they would shoot the attacker dead, but would just want to get away and the gun is a last resort.

What makes you think they train the police? Why would a LEO knocking on a door at 1:30 in the morning not identify himself? Wouldn't common sense training equip them to know that knocking on a door in a neighborhood that has a bad reputation and gun laws that permit people to own a gun would have people answering the door with a gun in their hand? Your error is you are assuming that training is enough to overcome stupidity.

People have to understand most gun owners are very responsible. they are not cowboys or think they are cops when that are not. 99 percent of the people I know who have guns, and I run into a lot more people with guns because of my occupation, are stable good people who you would never know they even have a gun because they don't flaunt it. I agree that some of the wackjobs in the NRA really do gun owners a real disservive with their crazy rhetoric and reckless attitude.

Most gun owners are good, but they are bad if they insist they should not be punished for the bad gun owners.

I do think the purchase of a handgun or assault rifle should involve a lot more training.

I think posting on the internet should require more training, doesn't mean I am actually enough of an arrogant twit to insist in it before people be allowed to post on the internet.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have always been a supporter of the 2nd Admendment and have owned many guns. These days I do not own a gun. Yet, I still support the ownership. I do, however, believe that if you need a license and a test to drive, the same should be true for owning a gun. Evenmore, I do not believe any longer in the need for individuals to have military style assault rifles. We live in a different world, one where there are many individuals amongst of the like of this Holmes character. It does not take an assault rifle to defend against them, but in their hands they are horrendous.

You do not need a license and test to drive. if you did no one would be able to drive because you need to get in a car and actually drive before you can pass a test, which is why they issue learner's permits to anyone who is actually old enough to apply for one. They do that without a test.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Dummies with guns get caught every day. You don't hear about the screw ups because they really don't make the news unless they are really stupid. the difference is when a criminal screws up and shoots an innocent victim or fucks up things for the police with their bumbling we attribute that to their actions. Again. look at zimmerman. had he done the right thing with his gun we would have never known about him even if a fight occurred. Because he went in there and shot an unarmed person we heard about it. In all honesty i do not think his motives were evil at all. He just wanted to protect his neighborhood, and he was not there to shoot a black kid. If he was a criminal our opinion of him would not change, but because he started off as a person doing good we see where things go wrong.

If zimmerman was getting his head pummeled by some huge kid who jumped him...and shot back in self defense... he did the right thing.


The point IS.... criminals don't have training or a license..and they carry guns. Anyone who wants to carry a gun should have the ability to do so with mandatory training to carry a gun. In TX if you want to conceal carry... you have to go to training, pass and be licensed to carry.

I am thinking the training for full carry should involve more than just knowing how to shoot and some rules, it should have some simulated scenarios. Not only would it help, but it would be an experience for the person to use gun combat skills.

I will tell you flat out, you can count on an inexperienced person to do certain mistakes and I often take advantage of idiots with a gun when i am out playing.

Until you can prove that experienced people never make mistakes, which you cannot do, your point is not going to stand. Don't get me wrong, training helps, but the only way it really makes a difference is if you train constantly so that you can react without thinking. That level of training is cost prohibitive, and you will still make mistakes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Funny how y'all always leave out the "well regulated" part...

Funny how the well regulated part does not go into the part he quoted.

 

[PratchettFan]

'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'

Why not quote the whole thing?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd amendment is about the security of the state.

The second Amendment is all about protecting the rights of American citizens from a tyrannical over reaching government
The government does not need a second amendment right to keep and bear arms.
the government has no rights.

No. It isn't. What you think it means is described elsewhere in the Constituion as "levying war aganist the United States..." which is the definition of treason. The 2nd amendment is not a license for treason, no matter how much you think it might be.

 

[OODA_Loop]

[Just reading a lot of the posts here you can tell that quite a few people have this movie playing in their head and they get the role of John Wayne. They hear about some situation or other and think to themselves, "If I had been there I would have stood up and taken the guy out." In reality, they would probably either hit the ground with everyone else or gotten themselves and others killed.

Several men rose to the occasion and because Aurora, CO prevents concealed weapons to be carried in the city limits, they shielded love ones with their own bodies, literally taking the bullets for them and dying.

Don't think you know how squared away, capable or to what lengths a man will go to based on your personal sensibilities.

 

[emptystep]

(Please ignore the post. I was teaching the kid how to smack you righties around. I taught him gun safety years ago. He's voting in 6 years.)

 

[OODA_Loop]

(Please ignore the post. I was teaching the kid how to smack you righties around. I taught him gun safety years ago. He's voting in 6 years.)

Did you teach him no matter how lawful he is in the pursuit and enjoyment of firearms ownership, Dear Old Dad is for taking The Death of 1000 Cuts to his Constitutional protections ?

 

[Politico]

II do not believe any longer in the need for individuals to have military style assault rifles. We live in a different world, one where there are many individuals amongst of the like of this Holmes character.

Yeah if he'd been using an assault rifle they would have been in real trouble.

 

[emptystep]

I will make sure he reads about Constitution from the people who wrote it. Does that count? I will also make sure he understands the intent of document. If he can recite a dead piece of paper I will be pleased. If he comprehend the dead piece of paper I will be proud.