Gun Control or Lunatic Control?

[ABikerSailor]

on the pole to vote if they just ban large clips they might as well ban all.

Ammo control isn't gun control.

 

[TossObama]

Have any of you made a study of Nazi Germany?

The Nazis pulled a stunt very similar to this Arizona shooting, and they did it to reinforce their Nazi agenda.

What they did was grab a retarded guy out of an institution, dressed him like a Resistance Fighter, the Nazis then set fire to their own headquarters, and sat the guy down right in front of the fire.

Then there was a big public "gotcha" and Nazis began rounding up the Jews, Jehova Witnesses, homosexuals and Gypsies.

I personally think it's interesting that in the Arizona incident: A nut carried out the deed, the target was one of their own, and now there are yelps for control and psycho shrinks -- both of which are leftist agendas (the psycho shrink agenda is now in jeopardy in the Health Care bill).

Looks like the works of the left, specifically the national socialists AGAIN.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Have any of you made a study of Nazi Germany?

The Nazis pulled a stunt very similar to this Arizona shooting, and they did it to reinforce their Nazi agenda.

What they did was grab a retarded guy out of an institution, dressed him like a Resistance Fighter, the Nazis then set fire to their own headquarters, and sat the guy down right in front of the fire.

Then there was a big public "gotcha" and Nazis began rounding up the Jews, Jehova Witnesses, homosexuals and Gypsies.

I personally think it's interesting that in the Arizona incident: A nut carried out the deed, the target was one of their own, and now there are yelps for control and psycho shrinks -- both of which are leftist agendas (the psycho shrink agenda is now in jeopardy in the Health Care bill).

Looks like the works of the left, specifically the national socialists AGAIN.

Is this historically accurate information? If so, provide a REAL historical link.

I'm guessing it's more extrapolation from Beck-tard.

 

[BrianH]

Loehner's Glock did have a sinister purpose.

My husband has guns for hunting. He also has a family and a home. I see no legitimate purpose for a young person who is unemployed and living at home to own one unless they are out shooting Sunday dinner. Esp. one who is mentally unstable and abusing drugs.

My personal fear of firearms stems from the fact that we had a good friend who blew his brains out several years ago. I also teach high school.

I respect the fact that owning a gun is a Constitutional right. But with that right comes an awesome responsibility. The Loehners failed in that responsibility. And Dupnik's office may have too.

You're exactly right. Owning a gun is an awesome responsibility. This is specifically why our children need to be edcuated properly about them. When they are old enough to purchase their own (and they will be one day), they will know how to hand not only the gun, but themselves.

As far as a your son without a job, I agree.

 

[BrianH]

We have enough laws. Laws will never prevent another shooting. Laws will not prevent a lunatic from blowing himself and other up. We were never promised life would be all good or all bad, just life.

In what situations, other than a combat zone, or a massacre, do you need more than 15 rounds per clip?

I mean, if you can't hit your target in 3 shots, you need to spend more time at the shooting range.

Nope, outside of law enforcement or the military, you DON'T need 30 round clips for a pistol.

Did you know that the AK-47 carries 35 rounds? Jared Laughtner was carrying almost as many rounds PER CLIP that the preferred assault rifle of terrorists carry.

What is the use of 30 round clips again?

While I myself view 30 rounds for a pistol to be a bit excessive. I still believe that it's beside the point. There are probablyl thousands if not millions of people with 30 round pistol clips that have not committed and act of violence. And I ask you my previous post....

Have you ever shot at a moving target??? Pistols are not designed to be long range weapons. The MAXIMUM effective range for a pistol is 50 yards....and that's to a trained individual. The average perosn, maybe 25 yards. On top of that, when someone is shooting at you, you're hands are not the steadiest. If you can hit a moving target shooting back at you in 3 shots, you're a bad ass. Have you ever watched the news when cops have shot a suspect? They'll usually end up saying that the cops fired 30+ rounds and the suspect may have only bit hit 2 or 3 times....

 

[BrianH]

on the pole to vote if they just ban large clips they might as well ban all.

Ammo control isn't gun control.

No, but it is an "infringement" Without ammo, the gun would not be considered an arm...but a piece of metal that clicks when you pull the trigger. You could keep and bear a gun, but not an arm because there's no ammo.

 

[FA_Q2]

I think most of us can agree that the public schools are terrible at handling kids on either side of the grade spectrum and it's often the kids that "don't fit the mold" fall thru the cracks.

What you need to understand is many families try to get their loved ones help but are denied. It is not because mental health resources are too busy taking care of frivolous problems, it's because there is a shortage of beds. To get into a mental hospital, you have to at least present a danger to yourself or others. Even then you may not get a bed. My child slept on the floor during his last stay. His room mates were ill, very ill. They were not there because they were simply mis-diagnosed.

I would not believe that the problem at that level is misdiagnosis. I was off on a tangent about something that upsets me but I was speaking more to the problem as a whole, overall resources that are not going where they need to (a greater number of actual institutions for one) as well as the overall view that the public has on mental illness. There is a problem but I feel that it has been approached all wrong and is causing larger issues.

So even though I believe that you know 4 kids that were mis-diagnosed via the school system, it does not dismiss the seriousness of the illness nor practising methods for catching it early.

Really, I encourage you to attend a local NAMI meeting. It is heart breaking to find out what little control you have over your kid when they are 17 and suffering. Mental illness is real and it does happen to our kids.

Never meant to discourage the early diagnosis and treatment. on the contrary, I would encourage it. Only one of the people I talked about was from the school system by the way. Doctors and councilors are in this problem as well.

 

[FA_Q2]

We have enough laws. Laws will never prevent another shooting. Laws will not prevent a lunatic from blowing himself and other up. We were never promised life would be all good or all bad, just life.

In what situations, other than a combat zone, or a massacre, do you need more than 15 rounds per clip?

I mean, if you can't hit your target in 3 shots, you need to spend more time at the shooting range.

Nope, outside of law enforcement or the military, you DON'T need 30 round clips for a pistol.

Did you know that the AK-47 carries 35 rounds? Jared Laughtner was carrying almost as many rounds PER CLIP that the preferred assault rifle of terrorists carry.

What is the use of 30 round clips again?

Already pointed out where you are wrong here. A post that you steadfastly ignored by the way.

 

[SnagNasty]

Audio Player | The Diane Rehm Show from WAMU and NPR

Good discussion of the mental health system and why things may have gone wrong in Tucson.

 

[ABikerSailor]

We have enough laws. Laws will never prevent another shooting. Laws will not prevent a lunatic from blowing himself and other up. We were never promised life would be all good or all bad, just life.

In what situations, other than a combat zone, or a massacre, do you need more than 15 rounds per clip?

I mean, if you can't hit your target in 3 shots, you need to spend more time at the shooting range.

Nope, outside of law enforcement or the military, you DON'T need 30 round clips for a pistol.

Did you know that the AK-47 carries 35 rounds? Jared Laughtner was carrying almost as many rounds PER CLIP that the preferred assault rifle of terrorists carry.

What is the use of 30 round clips again?

While I myself view 30 rounds for a pistol to be a bit excessive. I still believe that it's beside the point. There are probablyl thousands if not millions of people with 30 round pistol clips that have not committed and act of violence. And I ask you my previous post....

Have you ever shot at a moving target??? Pistols are not designed to be long range weapons. The MAXIMUM effective range for a pistol is 50 yards....and that's to a trained individual. The average perosn, maybe 25 yards. On top of that, when someone is shooting at you, you're hands are not the steadiest. If you can hit a moving target shooting back at you in 3 shots, you're a bad ass. Have you ever watched the news when cops have shot a suspect? They'll usually end up saying that the cops fired 30+ rounds and the suspect may have only bit hit 2 or 3 times....

Have I ever shot at a moving target? Yep. Not only did I hunt growing up in Montana (ever try to hit a gopher?), but for 3 years while stationed at the Naval War College in Newport RI, I was a member of the security force, and had lots of training with a 9mm.

We never carried more than 15 rounds in a clip, and we never needed more than 3.

Oh yeah.......I also earned my Sharpshooter ribbon during that time. Took about 6 months.

Like I said, outside of military or police applications, where exactly does the average person need 30 rounds per gun?

That's right.......never.

 

[BrianH]

In what situations, other than a combat zone, or a massacre, do you need more than 15 rounds per clip?

I mean, if you can't hit your target in 3 shots, you need to spend more time at the shooting range.

Nope, outside of law enforcement or the military, you DON'T need 30 round clips for a pistol.

Did you know that the AK-47 carries 35 rounds? Jared Laughtner was carrying almost as many rounds PER CLIP that the preferred assault rifle of terrorists carry.

What is the use of 30 round clips again?

While I myself view 30 rounds for a pistol to be a bit excessive. I still believe that it's beside the point. There are probablyl thousands if not millions of people with 30 round pistol clips that have not committed and act of violence. And I ask you my previous post....

Have you ever shot at a moving target??? Pistols are not designed to be long range weapons. The MAXIMUM effective range for a pistol is 50 yards....and that's to a trained individual. The average perosn, maybe 25 yards. On top of that, when someone is shooting at you, you're hands are not the steadiest. If you can hit a moving target shooting back at you in 3 shots, you're a bad ass. Have you ever watched the news when cops have shot a suspect? They'll usually end up saying that the cops fired 30+ rounds and the suspect may have only bit hit 2 or 3 times....

Have I ever shot at a moving target? Yep. Not only did I hunt growing up in Montana (ever try to hit a gopher?), but for 3 years while stationed at the Naval War College in Newport RI, I was a member of the security force, and had lots of training with a 9mm.

We never carried more than 15 rounds in a clip, and we never needed more than 3.

Oh yeah.......I also earned my Sharpshooter ribbon during that time. Took about 6 months.

Like I said, outside of military or police applications, where exactly does the average person need 30 rounds per gun?

That's right.......never.

So just like I said. " TRAINED INDIVIDUAL." And not only were you trained...you were well trained. So by that logic, a super trained invidiaul can hit a moving target in three shots while an untrained person may not. I don't know too many civilians with sharpshooter ribbons and specialized military training in firing a 9mm... The reason that people outside of military and law enforcement need a 30 round magazine is because they haven't been trained. If a trained drug-cartel member from the Mexican military comes knocking on the door, it's nice to know you you have 30 rounds to make a hit--> because you know they've got more than thirty...(Yes I live near the border)

This isn't to say that I would need a 30 round magazine. I personally don't own one and don't plan on owning one. I think it's a bit excessive, however, I don't think excess is the right reason to ban an product. I have emptied an entire 19 round clip at a pack of wild pigs several times. (fun). I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one, considering it's strictly a matter of opinion.

 

[FA_Q2]

In what situations, other than a combat zone, or a massacre, do you need more than 15 rounds per clip?

I mean, if you can't hit your target in 3 shots, you need to spend more time at the shooting range.

Nope, outside of law enforcement or the military, you DON'T need 30 round clips for a pistol.

Did you know that the AK-47 carries 35 rounds? Jared Laughtner was carrying almost as many rounds PER CLIP that the preferred assault rifle of terrorists carry.

What is the use of 30 round clips again?

While I myself view 30 rounds for a pistol to be a bit excessive. I still believe that it's beside the point. There are probablyl thousands if not millions of people with 30 round pistol clips that have not committed and act of violence. And I ask you my previous post....

Have you ever shot at a moving target??? Pistols are not designed to be long range weapons. The MAXIMUM effective range for a pistol is 50 yards....and that's to a trained individual. The average perosn, maybe 25 yards. On top of that, when someone is shooting at you, you're hands are not the steadiest. If you can hit a moving target shooting back at you in 3 shots, you're a bad ass. Have you ever watched the news when cops have shot a suspect? They'll usually end up saying that the cops fired 30+ rounds and the suspect may have only bit hit 2 or 3 times....

Have I ever shot at a moving target? Yep. Not only did I hunt growing up in Montana (ever try to hit a gopher?), but for 3 years while stationed at the Naval War College in Newport RI, I was a member of the security force, and had lots of training with a 9mm.

We never carried more than 15 rounds in a clip, and we never needed more than 3.

Oh yeah.......I also earned my Sharpshooter ribbon during that time. Took about 6 months.

Like I said, outside of military or police applications, where exactly does the average person need 30 rounds per gun?

That's right.......never.

Well... again, when has my rights ever been subject to what you feel is necessary and what is not necessary. That's right, NEVER.

 

[TossObama]

Have any of you made a study of Nazi Germany?

The Nazis pulled a stunt very similar to this Arizona shooting, and they did it to reinforce their Nazi agenda.

What they did was grab a retarded guy out of an institution, dressed him like a Resistance Fighter, the Nazis then set fire to their own headquarters, and sat the guy down right in front of the fire.

Then there was a big public "gotcha" and Nazis began rounding up the Jews, Jehova Witnesses, homosexuals and Gypsies.

I personally think it's interesting that in the Arizona incident: A nut carried out the deed, the target was one of their own, and now there are yelps for control and psycho shrinks -- both of which are leftist agendas (the psycho shrink agenda is now in jeopardy in the Health Care bill).

Looks like the works of the left, specifically the national socialists AGAIN.

Is this historically accurate information? If so, provide a REAL historical link.

I'm guessing it's more extrapolation from Beck-tard.

Unlike you, I don't waste my time on guff. Of course it's accurate information and was even broadcast recently on the cable History channel. (You do know what a television is??)

The broadcast even included the photos -- those I had not seen but I did know of the incident.

By the way, just because you don't know about something does not mean the data is false.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Have any of you made a study of Nazi Germany?

The Nazis pulled a stunt very similar to this Arizona shooting, and they did it to reinforce their Nazi agenda.

What they did was grab a retarded guy out of an institution, dressed him like a Resistance Fighter, the Nazis then set fire to their own headquarters, and sat the guy down right in front of the fire.

Then there was a big public "gotcha" and Nazis began rounding up the Jews, Jehova Witnesses, homosexuals and Gypsies.

I personally think it's interesting that in the Arizona incident: A nut carried out the deed, the target was one of their own, and now there are yelps for control and psycho shrinks -- both of which are leftist agendas (the psycho shrink agenda is now in jeopardy in the Health Care bill).

Looks like the works of the left, specifically the national socialists AGAIN.

Is this historically accurate information? If so, provide a REAL historical link.

I'm guessing it's more extrapolation from Beck-tard.

Unlike you, I don't waste my time on guff. Of course it's accurate information and was even broadcast recently on the cable History channel. (You do know what a television is??)

The broadcast even included the photos -- those I had not seen but I did know of the incident.

By the way, just because you don't know about something does not mean the data is false.

Like I said, can you provide a link from a historically accurate source?