Gun Control and the Inner City

[Sallow]

Most guns are initially sold legally.

Are you saying that everyone who possesses an illegal gun purchased it via legal channels, i.e., from a lawfully licensed gun dealer?

Yep.

And I ain't alone.

Bloomberg said the exact same thing. And took it to court.

Looks like he was right.

 

[The Rabbi]

Most guns are initially sold legally.

Are you saying that everyone who possesses an illegal gun purchased it via legal channels, i.e., from a lawfully licensed gun dealer?

Yep.

And I ain't alone.

Bloomberg said the exact same thing. And took it to court.

Looks like he was right.

Proves there are lots of idiots if you believe that.
First, there is no "illegal gun." They aren't marked that way ya know.
There are people who are ALREADY prohibited from owning guns, but do so anyway. They do so because they can buy them from other people who typically acquired them illegally, chiefly from theft.
Stopping people who are ALREADY prohibited from owning guns by passing laws is the definition of insanity.

 

[Sallow]

Are you saying that everyone who possesses an illegal gun purchased it via legal channels, i.e., from a lawfully licensed gun dealer?

Yep.

And I ain't alone.

Bloomberg said the exact same thing. And took it to court.

Looks like he was right.

Proves there are lots of idiots if you believe that.
First, there is no "illegal gun." They aren't marked that way ya know.
There are people who are ALREADY prohibited from owning guns, but do so anyway. They do so because they can buy them from other people who typically acquired them illegally, chiefly from theft.
Stopping people who are ALREADY prohibited from owning guns by passing laws is the definition of insanity.

That's completely incorrect.

Prohibition of gun ownership varies state to state. You cannot open carry in NYC without some pretty hard to get licenses..and usually only as part of employment.

That's not the case in states like Arizona or Texas.

 

[signelect]

No one likes the crime and no one likes the solution. I am a gun owner for 59 years and I hate to hear about people buying handguns for protection. The issue is not the buying but the learning how and when to use it. That takes a certain mind set that most people don't have. Most of my friends are hunters and while we may joke about protecting the castle we all agree on ONE think. Shooting someone is the last thing we would ever want to do. I am not sure how you could live with yourself, yet to protect my family I would do it. I would never do it to stop a thief. I might scare him to death but I would NOT shoot him.

 

[idb]

I am not saying that all your rural folks need to have your guns pried from your cold dead hands, but it’s time to ban handguns within the city limits of the US’s major cities. Handguns serve no purpose but to kill other people, and don’t try that home protection crap, a shotgun works just as well if not better for home protection. Handguns are the number one killer of youth in our major cities and it’s time we stop this insanity, really how many more people have to die?

Y'know, I keep asking this question, but no one has ever been able to answer it.

How to you plan on getting criminals to obey the law?

I can guarantee you the Latin Kings and Gangster Disciples don't go down to the local gun store to buy hand guns when they commit crimes, Washington DC has very strict gun laws and they still have a crime rate. Making guns illegal just takes away the average persons ability to protect themselves from these gangsters and crime rates actually go up, banning hand guns is a failure.

Hand guns are effectively banned in New Zealand and the hand gun crime rate is pretty much...zero.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I can guarantee you the Latin Kings and Gangster Disciples don't go down to the local gun store to buy hand guns when they commit crimes, Washington DC has very strict gun laws and they still have a crime rate. Making guns illegal just takes away the average persons ability to protect themselves from these gangsters and crime rates actually go up, banning hand guns is a failure.

You're quite right. Illegal guns move in the same channels as do illegal drugs, which we know by now simply cannot be controlled.

No they don't.

Most guns are initially sold legally.

And the key word "initially" makes your argument null and void. If someone breaks into my house, steals my gun, and then sells it to someone else who uses it to commit murder, that gun was "initially" sold legally, and that means nothing to how the ACTUAL criminal ACTUALLY purchased it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yep.

And I ain't alone.

Bloomberg said the exact same thing. And took it to court.

Looks like he was right.

Proves there are lots of idiots if you believe that.
First, there is no "illegal gun." They aren't marked that way ya know.
There are people who are ALREADY prohibited from owning guns, but do so anyway. They do so because they can buy them from other people who typically acquired them illegally, chiefly from theft.
Stopping people who are ALREADY prohibited from owning guns by passing laws is the definition of insanity.

That's completely incorrect.

Prohibition of gun ownership varies state to state. You cannot open carry in NYC without some pretty hard to get licenses..and usually only as part of employment.

That's not the case in states like Arizona or Texas.

Excuse me, but what the FUCK does your little mini-discourse on open carry laws have to do with prohibitions on gun ownership? Are you trying to imply that Arizona and Texas, because we allow people to actually carry their guns with them, somehow does not prohibit certain people from legally purchasing and owning guns?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Y'know, I keep asking this question, but no one has ever been able to answer it.

How to you plan on getting criminals to obey the law?

I can guarantee you the Latin Kings and Gangster Disciples don't go down to the local gun store to buy hand guns when they commit crimes, Washington DC has very strict gun laws and they still have a crime rate. Making guns illegal just takes away the average persons ability to protect themselves from these gangsters and crime rates actually go up, banning hand guns is a failure.

Hand guns are effectively banned in New Zealand and the hand gun crime rate is pretty much...zero.

Look around you, Sparky. This look like New Zealand to you?

 

[idb]

I can guarantee you the Latin Kings and Gangster Disciples don't go down to the local gun store to buy hand guns when they commit crimes, Washington DC has very strict gun laws and they still have a crime rate. Making guns illegal just takes away the average persons ability to protect themselves from these gangsters and crime rates actually go up, banning hand guns is a failure.

Hand guns are effectively banned in New Zealand and the hand gun crime rate is pretty much...zero.

Look around you, Sparky. This look like New Zealand to you?

Look at the post I replied to.

 

[MikeK]

Most guns are initially sold legally.

Are you saying that everyone who possesses an illegal gun purchased it via legal channels, i.e., from a lawfully licensed gun dealer?

Yep.

And I ain't alone.

Bloomberg said the exact same thing. And took it to court.

Looks like he was right.

What Bloomberg is saying is certain individuals (legally) buy guns in Virginia and other states where the gun laws are extremely liberal and (illegally) re-sell them in New York City. Therefore those who possess illegal guns in New York did not purchase them from a lawfully licensed dealer. They are in fact smuggled guns.

What Bloomberg is trying to do is encourage Obama to impose on those states with liberal gun laws in an effort to have them emulate New York City's repressive guns laws.

 

[MikeK]

Hand guns are effectively banned in New Zealand and the hand gun crime rate is pretty much...zero.

Were it not for guns there would not be an America. As a result of this inescapable fact guns are a deeply imbedded component of this Nation's culture. And the cultures of America and New Zealand could not be more dissimilar.

The estimated number of guns in the hands of Americans is somewhere between two hundred million and three hundred million. Nobody knows for sure. What is known is if guns were banned only the law-abiding would be disarmed.

So until someone comes up with an acceptable and workable solution to occasional gun violence, short of imposing the kind of police state methods common to totalitarian states there really is no point to the typical, tiresome anti-gun laments

 

[daveman]

Are you saying that everyone who possesses an illegal gun purchased it via legal channels, i.e., from a lawfully licensed gun dealer?

Yep.

And I ain't alone.

Bloomberg said the exact same thing. And took it to court.

Looks like he was right.

What Bloomberg is saying is certain individuals (legally) buy guns in Virginia and other states where the gun laws are extremely liberal and (illegally) re-sell them in New York City. Therefore those who possess illegal guns in New York did not purchase them from a lawfully licensed dealer. They are in fact smuggled guns.

What Bloomberg is trying to do is encourage Obama to impose on those states with liberal gun laws in an effort to have them emulate New York City's repressive guns laws.

So, crime is committed in NYC...and Bloomberg blames Virginia. So, because Bloomberg can't protect his own citizens, he insists other people's rights be taken away.

What a leftist moron.

 

[idb]

Hand guns are effectively banned in New Zealand and the hand gun crime rate is pretty much...zero.

Were it not for guns there would not be an America. As a result of this inescapable fact guns are a deeply imbedded component of this Nation's culture. And the cultures of America and New Zealand could not be more dissimilar.

The estimated number of guns in the hands of Americans is somewhere between two hundred million and three hundred million. Nobody knows for sure. What is known is if guns were banned only the law-abiding would be disarmed.

So until someone comes up with an acceptable and workable solution to occasional gun violence, short of imposing the kind of police state methods common to totalitarian states there really is no point to the typical, tiresome anti-gun laments

My post was in reply to a statement that gun control means that gun crime automatically goes up.
Don't you have any self control over there?

 

[asterism]

Yeah. Nothing racist about that statement. Nothing at all [/sarcasm]

I don't think people are somehow less entitled to exercise their self defense merely because they live in the city or because their skin is darker than someone elses.

I bet if you would come live in East Cleveland for a weekend you would change your mind.

Not if I can't have my .357 in my car.

 

[asterism]

I am not saying that all your rural folks need to have your guns pried from your cold dead hands, but it’s time to ban handguns within the city limits of the US’s major cities. Handguns serve no purpose but to kill other people, and don’t try that home protection crap, a shotgun works just as well if not better for home protection. Handguns are the number one killer of youth in our major cities and it’s time we stop this insanity, really how many more people have to die?

How would you suggest that a handgun ban be implemented and enforced? Please be specific.

NYC, guns are heavily regulated.

Works out just fine.

Except for all those criminals who don't care about laws.

 

[Missourian]

Many have hit on this point already, but it needs to be hammered home.

The problem with cities is a CRIME problem, not a gun problem.

For whatever reason, cities foster an environment in which crime becomes prevalent.

Instead of working to deter crime and eliminate whatever elements of city life that contribute to this urban lawlessness, they instead work to deprive lawful citizens of their constitutional right to own a firearm.

So the law abiding are disarmed and the criminal element remains armed.

I've posted my research many times...in Missouri, rural citizens own four times as many guns as city dwelling citizens, yet cities have 25 TIMES more assaults involving a firearm.

In the country, more guns, far less crime.

What is the variable that increases crime?

It isn't population...in my research I compared 800,000 city people and 800,000 rural folks...4 times as many guns in the country, 25 times more assaults involving a firearm in the city.

It isn't race...in Alabama and Mississippi there are entire counties that are predominately black...in Texas and New Mexico there are entire counties that are predominately Hispanic...
And the results are unchanged...high gun ownership, significantly lower crime than nearby urban centers.


So what is the variable that over and over again leads to high gun crime?

It's cities, urban populations, and the associated criminal element.

And where do the gun grabbers invariably live?

That's right...in the cities.

My message...I've proven guns aren't the problem...now, focus your energy on the true cause of urban violence...urban crime.

 

[Missourian]

Guns don't kill people, Cities kill people.​

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Why do the rural communities with twice as many legal gun owners and four times the owned firearms have 25 times less gun crime than urban communities?
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Look here for firearm ownership study
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Of the 22 Missouri counties with populations between 25K and 50K, having a combined population of 806,764 persons, there were 163 total firearm assaults and 2604 total assaults utilizing weapons of any kind.
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MSHP stats for 22 rural Missouri counties
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During the same period, in only the city of St. Louis and the city of Kansas City contained within the state of Missouri (half is in Kansas of course), with a combined population of 793,587 persons, there were a total of 4,143 firearm assaults and 8986 total assaults utilizing weapons of any kind.
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MSHP stats for St. Louis
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MSHP stats for KC, MO
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The 2006 stats on Missouri crime came from this website : Missouri State Highway Patrol Statisical Analysis Center, they are the most recent available.
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The 2004 rural/urban chart came from this website : Department of Health Policy and Management, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts, USA 2004 study.
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If the links for the MSHP data are broken, you can find the information for 2006 here: MO SAC - Data and Statistics - Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Statistical Query
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This blog is entirely my own work and research...reproduce it freely in support of the 2nd amendment.

 

[Megatron]

Guns don't kill people, Cities kill people.​

*
*
*
Why do the rural communities with twice as many legal gun owners and four times the owned firearms have 25 times less gun crime than urban communities?
*
*
Look here for firearm ownership study
*
*
Of the 22 Missouri counties with populations between 25K and 50K, having a combined population of 806,764 persons, there were 163 total firearm assaults and 2604 total assaults utilizing weapons of any kind.
*
*
MSHP stats for 22 rural Missouri counties
*
*
During the same period, in only the city of St. Louis and the city of Kansas City contained within the state of Missouri (half is in Kansas of course), with a combined population of 793,587 persons, there were a total of 4,143 firearm assaults and 8986 total assaults utilizing weapons of any kind.
*
*
*
MSHP stats for St. Louis
*
*
*
MSHP stats for KC, MO
*
*
*
*
*
The 2006 stats on Missouri crime came from this website : Missouri State Highway Patrol Statisical Analysis Center, they are the most recent available.
*
The 2004 rural/urban chart came from this website : Department of Health Policy and Management, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts, USA 2004 study.
*
If the links for the MSHP data are broken, you can find the information for 2006 here: MO SAC - Data and Statistics - Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Statistical Query
*
*
This blog is entirely my own work and research...reproduce it freely in support of the 2nd amendment.

and what are the majority of people living in the city like compaired to people living in the sticks

 

[Missourian]

and what are the majority of people living in the city like compaired to people living in the sticks

There are definately divergences in culture.

It's been along time since I lived in a city, and I was in my teens, so I wasn't exactly focused on socio/economic factors, but I do visit urban centers. Unfortunately, I'm an outsider looking in, so my obsevations are tainted by my own cultural biases.



Personally, I'd start with more police protection, and we need to find a punishment that deters gun crime.

 

[Megatron]

and what are the majority of people living in the city like compaired to people living in the sticks

There are definately divergences in culture.

It's been along time since I lived in a city, and I was in my teens, so I wasn't exactly focused on socio/economic factors, but I do visit urban centers. Unfortunately, I'm an outsider looking in, so my obsevations are tainted by my own cultural biases.



Personally, I'd start with more police protection, and we need to find a punishment that deters gun crime.

Well i will tell you i live in the city and its african american and latinos who create the sististics you just stated. And that's absolutily the truth, the incareration rates prove it year after year.