Greece, Greece, Greece

[Costcont]

Why's always Greece? The polling by The Financial Times made it quite clear what the majority of Europeans think about it. Yes, Greece won't be able to pay off their debts. But EU economics and the euro would crush without it as EU member. They should better have in mind this mistake of including into Eurozone all-comers and to do polling about new states joining to Eurozone. For example Baltic states have got quite a great external debt. And their economics are nearly as disastrous as Greek one. What are those guys ever doing in EU at all? Who wanted them here? I don't know any man who would be glad to be in the same union with those backward and arrogant Baltics. Why didn't anyone do SUCH polling before they joined EU? As for me I have nothing against Greeks. I like Greeks. But I hate those rabid Baltic Nazis. Moreover as economist I know some figures. Their debts have increased to 130% of GDP. And their GDP scarcely rank to situation in 1990. That's "northern Greece"! Their EU membership is catastrophe. And everyone bothers just about Greece.

 

[waltky]

Riots break out as depression level unemployment hits Greece...

Greece unemployment hit a record 25% in July
11 October 2012 - Protesters and riot police have clashed again in Athens

Unemployment in Greece hit a record 25.1% in July, with the level among young people reaching 54.2%, according to the latest official figures. Greece's statistical authority said 1.26 million Greeks were jobless in July, with more than 1,000 jobs lost every day over the past year. With austerity cuts continuing and Greece likely to enter another year of recession, the level may rise further. The worst-affected 15-24 age group, however, includes those in education.

According to Greece's statistics agency the total unemployment rate rose from 24.8% in June. In July 2008, a year before Greece's financial crisis broke, there were about 364,000 registered unemployed. "This is a very dramatic result of the recession," said Angelos Tsakanikas, head of research at Greece's IOBE economic research foundation. He did not expect employment to pick up for at least a year.

The Greek economy is surviving on international bailouts, but Athens has been forced to impose tough austerity measures in return for the money. Finance Minister Yiannis Stournaras will hold talks on Thursday evening with representatives of the European Union, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank about signing off the release of more funds.

The BBC's correspondent in Athens, Mark Lowen, said: "The figures have bolstered the anti-austerity argument here, giving fuel to those who believe the entire strategy of Greece's international lenders is wrong, and that pressure for ever more cuts is pushing the country to breaking point and stunting growth. "They point to the fact that before Greece was bailed out in April 2010, and began its austerity drive, unemployment stood at just 11.8%," he said.

There was some evidence on Thursday that the government's strategy is working on one front, at least. Finance Ministry figures showed that the deficit-cutting effort is on track despite lower-than-anticipated revenues. The ministry figures showed that the January-September deficit was 12.64bn euros, lower than the 13.5bn-euro target.

BBC News - Greece unemployment hits a record 25% in July

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says he only uses conundrums made in America so's dey don't break...

The Greek conundrum
15 October 2012 - They are closing in on agreement. That is the word from Athens.

After three months of talking between the Greek government and inspectors from the IMF [International Monetary Fund], the EU and the ECB [European Central Bank], they have narrowed the differences over the savings Greece must make in order to qualify for the next tranche of money. The mood music from the politicians has been positive. The Greeks, we are told in Brussels, are this time serious about reform. The German chancellor signals her support for Greece by flying to Athens. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble is more explicit. He does not think there will be a Greek default: "We do not see that there is any sense to speculate on Greece leaving the euro, that would be very damaging for Greece and the euro." Most of the summer talk about Greece leaving the euro has evaporated.

But here is the problem. The Greek government and the troika are still arguing over the figures, although they are close. The main problem is that once again, the depth of the Greek recession has been underestimated. Tax revenues are down and the shrinking economy undermines projections. Even so, heads of government this week at a summit in Brussels may well end up discussing a new deal for Greece if the talks in Athens succeed. Almost certainly Greece will be given two more years to meet its commitments. The IMF backs this and so do most of the eurozone finance ministers. More time, as Mr Schaeuble pointed out, means more money. Perhaps 20bn euros (£16bn). Perhaps more. That will have to be found. Even so, that is the easier part.

Hard choices

The strategy was for Greece to bring its debt-to-GDP ratio down to 120% by 2020. That clearly will not happen. The IMF predicts a ratio next year of 182%. By 2020, the IMF believes they might get the figure down to 140%. The European Commission is a touch more optimistic. What all this means is that the current plan is not sustainable. It is not working. The Greek economy, with a few exceptions, is in free fall. Sooner rather than later, a cold choice will have to be made.

Will there be a restructuring of debt (with this time national governments and the ECB taking losses), or will there be a third bailout, or will the politicians accept the medicine is not working? The pervading sense of unreality was broken this week by Swedish Finance Minister Anders Borg who was quoted as saying: "It is most probable they [the Greeks] will leave." That may or may not be true, but a Greek exit cannot be said to be off the table until the key question has been answered: How will the Greek debt mountain be reduced?

BBC News - The Greek conundrum

 

[Big Black Dog]

Greece is the word!

 

[waltky]

Eurozone debt loads growing...

As eurozone economy shrinks, govt debt loads grow
Nov 17, 12: Europe's government-debt crisis is no longer panicking financial markets. But it won't end until the region's economy starts growing strongly again. And that will be a while.

The economy of the 17 countries that use the euro has shrunk for two straight quarters - a common definition of a recession - and analysts forecast little or no growth until 2014. Without growth, there won't be enough tax revenue to help countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal narrow their deficits and slow the expansion of their debts. Their debt burdens as a percentage of economic output, a key measure of fiscal health, look worse by the day.

The eurozone's combined debts are equal to about 93 percent of the region's gross domestic product this year and that figure is forecast to rise to peak at 94.5 percent next year. In 2009, the eurozone's debt-to-GDP ratio was 80 percent. A ratio above 90 percent is generally considered high and can put pressure on governments' borrowing costs. "The worrying thing about the projections is, the peak seems to keep moving," says Raoul Ruparel of the Open Europe think tank.

The panic in European financial markets has eased in recent months largely because of aggressive action by the European Central Bank. The ECB said on Sept. 6 that it was willing to buy unlimited amounts of government bonds issued by countries struggling to pay their debts. That pledge quickly lowered borrowing costs for Spain and Italy, which earlier in the year faced the same kind of financial pressure that forced Ireland, Greece and Spain to seek bailouts. But stemming the crisis and heading off a default by one or more countries aren't the same as stimulating growth. The U.S. economy remains weak several years after actions by the Federal Reserve helped arrest its financial crisis.

Europe's economy is being held back for several reasons:[/b]

 

[Colin]

We should be grateful to Greece. They could be responsible for creating the beginning of the end of the EU.

 

[Synthaholic]

Greece needs stimulus not austerity. There are plenty of infrastructure that needs work. People paying income taxes again and purchasing is what will lower their debt.

 

[ekrem]

Why's always Greece? The polling by The Financial Times made it quite clear what the majority of Europeans think about it. Yes, Greece won't be able to pay off their debts. But EU economics and the euro would crush without it as EU member. They should better have in mind this mistake of including into Eurozone all-comers and to do polling about new states joining to Eurozone. For example Baltic states have got quite a great external debt. And their economics are nearly as disastrous as Greek one. What are those guys ever doing in EU at all? Who wanted them here? I don't know any man who would be glad to be in the same union with those backward and arrogant Baltics. Why didn't anyone do SUCH polling before they joined EU? As for me I have nothing against Greeks. I like Greeks. But I hate those rabid Baltic Nazis. Moreover as economist I know some figures. Their debts have increased to 130% of GDP. And their GDP scarcely rank to situation in 1990. That's "northern Greece"! Their EU membership is catastrophe. And everyone bothers just about Greece.

Baltic countries are tiny states.
Their combined economy is likely less than Munich's economic output.
They can't bring down the EU.

Greece on the other hand...
It's a miracle how such a small country could amass nearly 390 Billion $ of debt.
It's like eating gold every dinner.
And since their entry into EU they got billions of Euros from EU's cohesion-funds each year.
What happened in Greece was a massive freeloading.