Great, Just Great...

[dilloduck]

Dialogues?



I thought we were going to attack all of these countries? And I agree. There needs to be hard evidence that Saudi Arabia supports terrorism before an invasion.

But I am inclined to believe that if Saudi Arabia does not meet the threshold, Iraq certainly did not either.

Yes-dialogues. Have you not ever thought of the advangtage it is to America for the Bush family to have a ood relationship with the Sauds?? Piss them off and see what happens !! Libya has denounced terrorism and rid itself of WMDs withoutanyone firing a shot. Nice huh or do you not like talking about the diplomatic successes of the Bush administration?

 

[Mainframe]

Yes-dialogues. Have you not ever thought of the advangtage it is to America for the Bush family to have a ood relationship with the Sauds?? Piss them off and see what happens !!

hmm... never thought of that advantage. good point.

 

[wade]

Shortly after the 9/11 attack, President Bush made it clear that we would go after terrorist countries and countries that support terroism. Saddam paying the families of suicide bombers in Palestine, pretty much showed which side of the fence he stood on.

Why does the left continue to leave that fact out.

Because bush was talking about international terrorism. It is not appropriate to apply this to all terrorism everywhere. Would we, for instance, oppose terrorism against the NK regime? I think not!

 

[MJDuncan1982]

Yes-dialogues. Have you not ever thought of the advangtage it is to America for the Bush family to have a ood relationship with the Sauds?? Piss them off and see what happens !! Libya has denounced terrorism and rid itself of WMDs withoutanyone firing a shot. Nice huh or do you not like talking about the diplomatic successes of the Bush administration?

Yes I understand that we benefit from a close relationship with the Saudis. But which is going to be paramount...fighting terrorism or protecting economic interests?

Seems to me Bush has said fighting terrorism - hence his reasoning for invading Iraq.

 

[White knight]

The most classic mistake a colonial powers makes is not knowing the adversary and their culture.
If you can’t remember the past you are doomed to repeat it.
If we would have took Ho Chi Minh in when he came seeking our support, before he went to the Soviets and became a communist, the Vietnam War would not have happened for us.
I see allot of post here thinking in western terms, “Just kill em” “we can take them” “who’s next”
Most non-westerners don’t act or even think in the same context as Westerners. We tend to think in a forward plane, a lot of other cultures think backwards to forward. For example we would say, “Now I’m going to the store.” They would say, “Store, I go now”
According to this article in the CSM, (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1013/p01s04-usgn.html) their goal is not win the war in the sense that we see wars won. (Beginning to a ending) They may not even be interested in fighting us all that much, but want to continue to build a base of popular support among all of Islam. It appears their goal is to win all Muslim hearts and minds against the infidels and resist our materialistic culture. It appears to be more of a biblical battle for lifestyles then getting them all to join the fight.
They see this as the holy fight leading up to the judgment day. Not as just another war. If the Koran has similar messages as the bible, which I’m sure it does, it’s not hard to see how they arrive at this conclusion. Much like the Amish and Mennonites in America who have resisted materialism and modernization, they are resisting for religious reasons as well.
I would bet that you could find a similar passage in the Koran as can be found in Ezekiel 28:12 of the bible. It tells us that Satan was filled with violence and sinned through his widespread trade or traffic in merchandise. The passage suggests that Satan’s power of sin, over man is through what can be translated to mean either slander or dishonest trade, or both.
The people of the Middle East have always viewed the United States as the Great Satan and the heart of capitalism.
This will make it difficult for the United Sates to pacify the region through economic reconstruction and consumerism as we have tamed many nations of the world.
This will require a non-traditional more sensitive approach.
You can win the battles but ultimately end up losing the war.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

Back to the threads topic from the first post:

The following is from an intelligence organization subscription I receive: www.stratfor.com

Contrary to mainstream media and the Bush administration's take on al-Zarqawi, Stratfor has maintained the position that the Jordanian-born Ahmad Fadeel Nazal al-Khalayleh -- also known as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- is an independent jihadist operator confined to Iraq and, to some degree, its immediate neighbors.

Two of his previous statements support this view. In both messages -- a letter addressed to bin Laden and intercepted in early February by the U.S. military in Iraq and an Internet-posted statement in mid-June -- al-Zarqawi tried to prove he is a worthy al Qaeda partner while also making the point that his movement was doomed without outside intervention. The statements also were aimed at allaying any concern within the al Qaeda leadership that al-Zarqawi is a competitor. Ultimately, al-Zarqawi was trying to win al Qaeda over to his game plan for Iraq, which entails fomenting a civil war by targeting the majority Shiite population.

On two previous occasions, al Qaeda attempted to distance itself from sectarian attacks against the Shia (notwithstanding its anti-Shiite ideology), making it seem as if the global jihadist network had no interest in doing business with al-Zarqawi. Furthermore, there has been no word from al Qaeda on al-Zarqawi's pledge of allegiance to bin Laden.

Trying to surmise the goals of al Qaeda is not necessary. You need look no further than that fatwa issued by bin Laden in 1998. (a discussion of the legality of this fatwa can be made, as a cleric did not issue the fatwa as required by Koranic law...but that is lost on most Islamic fundamentalists)

On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Their goals are stated in black and white, and are not too terribly difficult to understand. If you need help understanding the goals of al Qaeda, let me know I will gladly point you to some video of decapitations of Americans and and allies at the hands of these medeival thugs.