Great Day for the Skeptics

Discussion in 'Environment' started by IanC, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    CLOUD experiment released- vindicates Svendsmark

    Mann emails released to outside source but not public yet (yesterday's pre-emptive vindication of Mann couldnt be coincidental, could it?)

    Sea level data show large correction downward

    let the spluttering begin at Real Climate! this should be interesting.
     
  2. Matthew
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    Matthew Blue dog all the way!

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    We're finding that there is some pretty powerful negatives. I sure as hell wouldn't forecast more then 1c in the next 89 years. Hell, I'm not even sure if it is a good idea to make a 90 year forecast with as little as we know about the climate system. :eek:
     
  3. wirebender
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    wirebender Senior Member

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    Considering what we "know" about the climate, and considering what climate science has already shown us, I would say that predictions even a year in advance are pushing the boundries.
     
  4. gslack
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    gslack Senior Member

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    I have to hand it to you wire, after reading your posts and doing a little research on my own, I have a much better understanding of just how greenhouse effect works on a fundamental level.

    That being said the entire field of climate research (or at least as we are told) runs on a false premise on the fundamental level. Therefore just as you stated before, all other theories, predictions, claims either direct or indirect will all have that same fundamental flaw. And whats worse is there is a whole generation of scientists that have been trained and conditioned to accept it as fact, run with it, and don't look back.

    I have been taking my oldest daughter to colleges lately, and at every single one they make sure and tell us they have a very robust environmental science/research department. They take several minutes explaining all the research they have going on regarding climate change and ALL of it runs on this same pretense...

    When scientists teach the young to stop asking the obvious questions about everything, and just follow the system, we are in dire times....
     
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  5. wirebender
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    wirebender Senior Member

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    It starts waaaaayyyyy before college. Kids aren't taught critical thinking skills any more and haven't been for a very long time. I recognized that deficiency in education (public and private) when my own kids were in school and took it on myself to teach them to think critically. It isn't hard, but you have to work at it constantly. Now both my kids and myself are teaching the same skills to my grandkids except we started way earlier with them than I did with my kids.

    If you have strong critical thinking skills, you can overcome the obvious deficiencies in academics that are present through all levels of education now.

    If your daugher is old enough to be looking at colleges here is a place that both you and her might visit:

    http://www.criticalthinking.org/aboutCT/definingCT.cfm

    Here is a clip from the front page that cuts to the very heart of the issue:

    "Critical thinking can be seen as having two components: 1) a set of information and belief generating and processing skills, and 2) the habit, based on intellectual commitment, of using those skills to guide behavior. It is thus to be contrasted with: 1) the mere acquisition and retention of information alone, because it involves a particular way in which information is sought and treated"

    The highlighted passage goes to the foundational flaw that has resided within our educational system for a very long time. Since the fed got into education way back when and standardized tests became the norm, teachers and school systems in general have been teaching for the tests, not for the purpose of education. Kids are taught to simply aquire and retain information in order to pass a test and that doesn't equal education. It is from that sort of system that you get people like rocks and rolling thunder. People who have wheelbarrows full of information on a topic, but aren't able to think critically about it. They hold a belief based on their political leaning and then go about aquiring information that supports that belief. They aren't able to examine that information; turn it over and look at it from various directions and compare it with the real world or examine it critically against other information in their wheel barrow. It supports what they believe so they accept it, apparently without reservation.

    On a personal level, I think that liberal thought supports and promotes non critical thinking as opposed to the natural critical nature of conservative thought. Or maybe those not disposed to thinking criticaly for physiological or psychological reasons simply drift naturally into liberal thought as a way to maintain a certain comfort level. At any rate, liberals almost universally hold certain positions which demonstrate a shockingly casual lack of any critical thought. For example:

    Most liberals maintain that no single culture is superior to another, except our Judeo-Christian free market culture here in the west which is singularly bad.

    Most liberals believe in free speech; as long as it is speech they agree with, otherwise the fairness doctrine and net neutrality are necessary.

    Most liberals believe that there is no such thing as objective morality; except of course for conservatism, Christianity and capitalism, which are all, by definition, inherently evil

    Most liberals believe that all people are equal, except, of course, male white conservatives, who are inferior to everyone.

    And on the topic of climate science, most liberals believe that science has to rely on the revered scientific method, except, of course, when the scientific method demands honesty in presenting results, openness of code and data, experimentation to verify hypotheses, admissions regarding uncertainty, or anything else which detracts from a slavish adherence to the "devine consensus".

    All that, however, is fodder for a different conversation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  6. gslack
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    gslack Senior Member

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    I have pretty much tried to do the same thing with my kids. I have 3 one a senior in HS, one a sophomore, and the last one in 7th grade. It seems to have worked, they ask the questions and treats what they are taught in school as a tool, knowing that their real knowledge will have to come from their own studies and work.

    It's sad it is like that though.

    I agree with your assessments of liberals 100%.
     
  7. waltky
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    waltky Wise ol' monkey Supporting Member

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    I've noticed that grass cutting season is longer and leaves turning seems to be later than I remember as a kid...
    :eusa_eh:
    Is Climate Change Affecting Fall Foliage?
    6 Oct.`11 – Clocks may not be the only thing falling back: That signature autumn change in leaf colors may be drifting further down the calendar.
    See also:

    Fall colors depend on weather changes
    10/15/2010 4:42 PM | So, why do the leaves change color each fall?
     
  8. skookerasbil
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    skookerasbil Gold Member

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    Gslack...........I'll just add to that..............

    There is also a component to liberal thinking that is clearly a pathology. If you study the thinking patterns of anybody who promotes far left views, there is a pronounced lack of an ability to intellectually weigh necessary trade-offs. Ive always found it fascinating.......a concept so crystal clear to the conservative mind unable to at all be embaced by the liberal mind. So its more than education.

    For any conservative, the prime questions which must be answered when problem solving are:

    1) As compared to what?

    and

    2) At what cost?

    The liberal mind NEVER factors this into their thinking = fascinating. Its not material in any debate on any subject. Necessary tradeoffs are not weighed intellectually.


    As applied to the debate about climate change...........consider................

    The UN recently estimated the cost of all world economies going green at 71 trillion dollars. This number is not at all important to the liberal mind............as if all we all have to do is collectively get the mindset to all go down to the bank one day and withdraw the funds to eliminate fossil fuels. To them, its simply a matter of making up our minds to accomplish the feat. No unintended consequences to be concerned with.


    Fascinating shit...............but could one imagine our world if these people were making all the decisions for us!!:gay::gay::gay:
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
  9. FurthurBB
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    FurthurBB Member

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    Hmmm ... I think teaching critical thinking skills is paramount to an a child's education, but I believe you should have found someone qualified.
     
  10. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Ol' Bent is, well, bent.
     

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