Government's role--too much or too little?

[Flopper]

That's the big debate. Here's some food for thought.

[excerpts]

Rarely has the news of the day run so counter to the spin on the news of the day. It's hard to argue that the difficulties we confront were caused by an excessively powerful "big" government. Rather, most of them arose from the government's failure to do its job in the first place.
...
The more important and dynamic force behind the current disillusionment with government comes instead from those who actually believe it can and should be effective. They do not think that the market is automatically rational or that the government has to be dumb. They are fed up with government not because their ideology or philosophy tells them to be but because they don't think government has been doing a proper job of promoting prosperity, equity and fair-dealing.

washingtonpost.com

Before asking the question, is government too big, we need to agree on what we mean by big government. To many it’s not the number of employees and agencies but the cost. To other, it’s the regulation that effect how we do business and lead our personal lives. When some people complaint about big government, they aren’t complaining about what government does, but rather the inefficient way it does it. If reducing the size of big government means fixing all of the above problems then there is only one possible solution and that is revolution. That raises an interesting question. Can someone be a conservative and advocate the overthrow of their government?

The inefficiencies and waste MUST be addressed, but the problem is no one seems to know where to start. The DoD is such a mess that it is unauditable, according to the GAO, which may be the reason Secretary Gates (a Republican in case the fringers forgot) has called for even further deep cuts in the Pentagon's budget. Good for him. If every agency did the same, independently of what the president (no matter who he is) says, that may be the only way to reduce costs significantly across the board.

Here is a place to start. I use to work for a company that was very serious about cost reduction, so they decided to ask for help from the people who really knew where the waste and inefficiencies lie, the employees. So they implemented a cost reduction program which included a committee that would evaluate cost reductions. Employee recommendations that actually resulted in savings got 10% of all savings realized.

I don't see any reason why such a plan would not be successful in government. I worked for both the feds and state government for several years and I can tell you the employees knew how to reduce cost and increase efficiency. The problem was that management didn't really give a damn.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

That's the big debate. Here's some food for thought.

[excerpts]

Rarely has the news of the day run so counter to the spin on the news of the day. It's hard to argue that the difficulties we confront were caused by an excessively powerful "big" government. Rather, most of them arose from the government's failure to do its job in the first place.

washingtonpost.com

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cleanin'-up, after ANOTHER Bush economic-debacle is gonna take every resource, available.

Anyone, who even considers givin' that inbred-clan another shot at runnin' the U.S. government, needs to consider a stretch at an asylum, somewhere.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Obviously the Government is doing too much at this point.

Gettin' kinda worried about the whole oversight-trip....again...., huh??

Yeah....whatta shame "Loose Cannon" McCain never got elected.

​

June 24, 2008​

"Now, Gramm has a second chance of extending his out-of-touch and ill-performing policies, as Senator John McCain appointed Gramm to be his "economic expert" and cochair of his presidential campaign, last year. Also, it is likely that if Senator McCain were to win in November, Gramm would be our next Trea$ury $ecretary, which means more of the same deregulatory mess and the continuation of failed and insidious economic policies."

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Big government....something to be feared

....UNLESS, of course.....as "conservatives" (continually) insist....it's run, like a bu$ine$$!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Ensuring and believing in Freedom & Liberty is difficult. The allure of possible Government freebies is just so powerful. Nothing is free though.

Gee.....ya' think someone might have mentioned that to Daddy's Lil' Frat-Boy????? (....Before George Sr. & Babs handed-off all babysitting-duties, to us??)

 

[Harry Dresden]

That's the big debate.

Its only a debate amongst the simpleminded - people so moronic as to actually think we just need to get the right "size" government and everything will be fine.

thats not it at all...and im sure you know that...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Before asking the question, is government too big, we need to agree on what we mean by big government. To many it’s not the number of employees and agencies but the cost. To other, it’s the regulation that effect how we do business and lead our personal lives. When some people complaint about big government, they aren’t complaining about what government does, but rather the inefficient way it does it. If reducing the size of big government means fixing all of the above problems then there is only one possible solution and that is revolution. That raises an interesting question. Can someone be a conservative and advocate the overthrow of their government?

you dont have to overthrow the Govt to fix it....just kick those assholes out of Congress who think they or their pathetic party is more important than the Country.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I don't see any reason why such a plan would not be successful in government. I worked for both the feds and state government for several years and I can tell you the employees knew how to reduce cost and increase efficiency. The problem was that management didn't really give a damn.

sounds like the PO....but i will add....their way,even if wrong, is going to work....whether you like it or not...

 

[Harry Dresden]

[/CENTER]

looks like the card the California legislature has used for the last 15 years....just put Democrat on there and a variety of faces and its it....

 

[Flopper]

Before asking the question, is government too big, we need to agree on what we mean by big government. To many it’s not the number of employees and agencies but the cost. To other, it’s the regulation that effect how we do business and lead our personal lives. When some people complaint about big government, they aren’t complaining about what government does, but rather the inefficient way it does it. If reducing the size of big government means fixing all of the above problems then there is only one possible solution and that is revolution. That raises an interesting question. Can someone be a conservative and advocate the overthrow of their government?

you dont have to overthrow the Govt to fix it....just kick those assholes out of Congress who think they or their pathetic party is more important than the Country.....

We have been sending different people to Washington, but it really doesn't make much difference regardless of president or party. If we are serious about keeping down government cost I suggest we pass a constitutional amendment making it illegal for the federal government to run a deficit except in the case of national security or emergency. There are countries in the world and local governments that work this way.

 

[MaggieMae]

Before asking the question, is government too big, we need to agree on what we mean by big government. To many it’s not the number of employees and agencies but the cost. To other, it’s the regulation that effect how we do business and lead our personal lives. When some people complaint about big government, they aren’t complaining about what government does, but rather the inefficient way it does it. If reducing the size of big government means fixing all of the above problems then there is only one possible solution and that is revolution. That raises an interesting question. Can someone be a conservative and advocate the overthrow of their government?

The inefficiencies and waste MUST be addressed, but the problem is no one seems to know where to start. The DoD is such a mess that it is unauditable, according to the GAO, which may be the reason Secretary Gates (a Republican in case the fringers forgot) has called for even further deep cuts in the Pentagon's budget. Good for him. If every agency did the same, independently of what the president (no matter who he is) says, that may be the only way to reduce costs significantly across the board.

Here is a place to start. I use to work for a company that was very serious about cost reduction, so they decided to ask for help from the people who really knew where the waste and inefficiencies lie, the employees. So they implemented a cost reduction program which included a committee that would evaluate cost reductions. Employee recommendations that actually resulted in savings got 10% of all savings realized.

I don't see any reason why such a plan would not be successful in government. I worked for both the feds and state government for several years and I can tell you the employees knew how to reduce cost and increase efficiency. The problem was that management didn't really give a damn.

The only problem I could see with asking the employees for input is that they might be afraid their own jobs would be on the line if certain cuts were made in their respective departments.

David Walker, one of my heros because he was never afraid to tell the truth, painful as it might be, was on Morning Joe today and suggested the following as the only route. (I hope powers that be within the OA were listening, including the newly formed commission to evaluate the deficit and suggest methods to reduce it.)

[Paraphrasing] "[We] need a special process that will set the table on budget control, social insurance reform, and taxes as a package all at once, and engage the American people on the facts, the truth, and the tough choices."

 

[MaggieMae]

Before asking the question, is government too big, we need to agree on what we mean by big government. To many it’s not the number of employees and agencies but the cost. To other, it’s the regulation that effect how we do business and lead our personal lives. When some people complaint about big government, they aren’t complaining about what government does, but rather the inefficient way it does it. If reducing the size of big government means fixing all of the above problems then there is only one possible solution and that is revolution. That raises an interesting question. Can someone be a conservative and advocate the overthrow of their government?

you dont have to overthrow the Govt to fix it....just kick those assholes out of Congress who think they or their pathetic party is more important than the Country.....

And I maintain that there's no guarantee that the replacements will not eventually be exactly the same. What needs to happen with Congress, for starters, is to extend (not reduce) the term limits of House members to at least 3 years. Since they are there for only two years, a newbie will just get his/her feet wet in the first year, then needs to spend the second year campaigning for reelection. By the time they've got the game figured out, they've become veterans and campaign BOTH years (spending more time with lobbyists willing to stuff their pockets with campaign contributions than on legislation).

The Senate also needs to examine the duplicity of its committees, where a lot of time is wasted. Why can't a draft bill simply be put on the floor for debate immediately? Why does it have to go through several "committees" (presumably "experts" on the various characteristics of a bill) before it reaches the floor agenda? Let those "experts" debate during full Senate sessions. That way, they'll be sure to actually READ what they're debating, too.

And enough with all these stupid resolutions naming post offices, etc. How much time is wasted on that crap?

 

[MaggieMae]

Ensuring and believing in Freedom & Liberty is difficult. The allure of possible Government freebies is just so powerful. Nothing is free though.

Gee.....ya' think someone might have mentioned that to Daddy's Lil' Frat-Boy????? (....Before George Sr. & Babs handed-off all babysitting-duties, to us??)

Hey Sham--this is meant to be about big/small government in general, not Bush bashing or Obama bashing. The behemoth bureaucracy we live under existed long before either one of them and they simply pushed their own agenda.

 

[MaggieMae]

Before asking the question, is government too big, we need to agree on what we mean by big government. To many it’s not the number of employees and agencies but the cost. To other, it’s the regulation that effect how we do business and lead our personal lives. When some people complaint about big government, they aren’t complaining about what government does, but rather the inefficient way it does it. If reducing the size of big government means fixing all of the above problems then there is only one possible solution and that is revolution. That raises an interesting question. Can someone be a conservative and advocate the overthrow of their government?

you dont have to overthrow the Govt to fix it....just kick those assholes out of Congress who think they or their pathetic party is more important than the Country.....

We have been sending different people to Washington, but it really doesn't make much difference regardless of president or party. If we are serious about keeping down government cost I suggest we pass a constitutional amendment making it illegal for the federal government to run a deficit except in the case of national security or emergency. There are countries in the world and local governments that work this way.

Rather than pass a bunch of amendments, which is a long and involved process, we need someone to call for a Constitutional Convention which wouldn't need the approval two-thirds of the House where bickering would take years.

Article V:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

 

[Avatar4321]

That's the big debate.

Its only a debate amongst the simpleminded - people so moronic as to actually think we just need to get the right "size" government and everything will be fine.

Can't govern yourself can you?

 

[Avatar4321]

It seems like too many people are looking for very simple answers to some very complicated problems. In 2008 when markets collapsed, unemployment skyrocketed, and millions were faced with losing their homes, there is no way congress and the president could tell the American people that they are going to do nothing and just let the recession run it's course? Yet, that is exactly what so many armchair quarterbacks suggest should have done.

I agree that they shouldn't have done nothing.

They should have cut taxes and cut spending and let us grow out of this recession.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Believing in real Freedom & Liberty is hard. Those who still believe in it open themselves up for attack from many usual suspects who oppose it. These attacks come from various political spectrums. They all have their agendas and invent all sorts of excuses for taking your Freedom & Liberty away. They can actually turn pretty vicious in their defense of their assaults on your Freedom as well. Most of them really do believe it's "For your own Good." Real Freedom does scare these people. It's all about power & control in the end. Those who believe in and fight for Freedom & Liberty are true heroes. The attacks will come fast & furious from various sources. You gotta be pretty strong to withstand these attacks. Still gotta believe and keep fighting though.

 

[MaggieMae]

Believing in real Freedom & Liberty is hard. Those who still believe in it open themselves up for attack from many usual suspects who oppose it. These attacks come from various political spectrums. They all have their agendas and invent all sorts of excuses for taking your Freedom & Liberty away. They can actually turn pretty vicious in their defense of their assaults on your Freedom as well. Most of them really do believe it's "For your own Good." Real Freedom does scare these people. It's all about power & control in the end. Those who believe in and fight for Freedom & Liberty are true heroes. The attacks will come fast & furious from various sources. You gotta be pretty strong to withstand these attacks. Still gotta believe and keep fighting though.

The way the term "freedom" has been tossed around, anyone just tuning in would start to think we're all in chains, needing approval from some great Superior Being with a crown in order to take a pee. "Freedom" has been bastardized to the point that it's meaningless anymore. Americans are still more "free" than just about any other country on earth, so the constant over-use of the word as the all-inclusive escape clause for your brand of politics has become nothing but code for Get Obama.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Believing in real Freedom & Liberty is hard. Those who still believe in it open themselves up for attack from many usual suspects who oppose it. These attacks come from various political spectrums. They all have their agendas and invent all sorts of excuses for taking your Freedom & Liberty away. They can actually turn pretty vicious in their defense of their assaults on your Freedom as well. Most of them really do believe it's "For your own Good." Real Freedom does scare these people. It's all about power & control in the end. Those who believe in and fight for Freedom & Liberty are true heroes. The attacks will come fast & furious from various sources. You gotta be pretty strong to withstand these attacks. Still gotta believe and keep fighting though.

The way the term "freedom" has been tossed around, anyone just tuning in would start to think we're all in chains, needing approval from some great Superior Being with a crown in order to take a pee. "Freedom" has been bastardized to the point that it's meaningless anymore. Americans are still more "free" than just about any other country on earth, so the constant over-use of the word as the all-inclusive escape clause for your brand of politics has become nothing but code for Get Obama.

Well obviously i will have to disagree with your over-simplified assessment. I don't want to "get" anyone. That's the game all Socialists/Progressives & Neocons always play. Believing in and supporting real Freedom & Liberty is hard. It makes some very angry and they will viciously attack anyone who doesn't tow their party-line. Freedom & Liberty is natural & right. It also feels good. Try it. You might just like it.