Government Spending as a Percentage of the Economy, International Comparisons

[Toro]

Note that almost all of those nations have socialized medical services.

Where does America score on that chart after a fascistic takeover of nearly 1/5 of the total economy, eh?

That is an exaggeration.

There is no country in the world where the entire healthcare industry is run or controlled by the state. Instead, the government is usually the primary and majority player in the industry and the private sector plays some but not a majority role.

For example, in Canada, about a quarter of healthcare services are private and healthcare accounts for 14% of the economy, meaning that 10.5% of the economy is government-sponsored healthcare. In America, government accounts for about 45% of total healthcare spending, which is about 18% of the economy, meaning that 8% of the economy already is government-sponsored healthcare, or a 2%-3% difference between the two countries.

For those wondering, the percentage of government spending in the economy in 2006 - the last year of the GOP controlled Congress - was 37%.

 

[Oddball]

Let's say, for the sake of it, that it is an exaggeration.

What's the uptick if the numbers are off by 1/2?...Pretty damned significant, I'd bet.

But America still wouldn't be a socialistic economy, even though its level of gubmint spending -hence control- is amongst the company of the most socialized of nations....Right?

 

[mascale]

Neubarth poster actually wanted examples of fallen nation-states, that ignored the lower end of the income scale?!"

The Bolsheviks led a palace revolution against the Czar by comparison, but the revolts of the French against the monarchy, and the colonies against their monarchy--was relatively widespread. The Chinese Communists were able to come to power, and even last week the current head of that party--lost his--butt, apparently now in modern times, based on riotous dissatisfaction among lower income elements in their borders.

Liberal Democrats are widely regarded as having saved the U. S. economy, in the 1930's, devoting vast amounts of resources to the lower income, out-of-work, peoples of the economy. In the alternative, there was easily another example in the offing: Of economies that fall, after failing, at the lower end of the income scale.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(As anyone knows, the "fabled" U. S. Civil Rights Movement itself: Was meant to engage the lower end of the U. S. income Scale! The U S. President, admittely, was busy surfing, and doing pre-licensed "medicine," and probably whatnot, instead!)

 

[Oddball]

Socialist Democrats are widely regarded as having saved the U. S. economy, in the 1930's

Because they're largely credited by their slavish toadies in the media and academe, that doesn't make it so.

 

[xsited1]

For reference.

This includes all levels of government.

From the OECD.

I'm surprised that Japan is so low. Here's another graph of interest:

Overall Productivity ppp by country. Definition, graph and map.

 

[mascale]

Dude(?)

"Liberal" Democrats are widely credited with diminishing the unemployment roles from 25% to 8% from the early 1930's until up to Pearl Harbor. That would be actual evidence of policy directed to the lower income, aka, "unemployed," part of the income scale.

In the same manner that Catholics did monster public works Cathedrals, Monasteries, Inquisitions and Wars in their history, so in fact nations have also done large-scale public works without recourse to modern ideologies.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(How could so many adults be disinclined to letting some drug-using, Hawaiian Surf Bum, otherwise doing what-not at the time: Lecture their kids on what school is all about?!?)

 

[Oddball]

"Liberal" democrats are as illiberal as you can get.

That they're credited by academe and their media butt boys with the tide coming in doesn't mean that they were indeed the cause.

Great Myths of the Great Depression | Foundation for Economic Education

 

[DiveCon]

Is the above ALL US government spending, or just the FEDS?

40% of GDP is actually pretty good if it includes all state and local governments, too.

In fact it's damned cheap given the world we live in.

It is all government at all levels - federal, state, country, city.

Federal spending is about a quarter of the economy.

uh, 40% would be over a third

 

[Toro]

I'm surprised that Japan is so low. Here's another graph of interest:

Overall Productivity ppp by country. Definition, graph and map.

I was a bit surprised by that too.

Your graph of productivity is a great one. It is the single biggest reason why the harbingers of doom are wrong about the United States, regardless of whomever is in power. Despite the disaster in the financial markets, I have yet to see anything that has fundamentally changed the productive capacity of the American people nor the rock solid institutions of this country. When we eventually emerge from this, the US will still be the single most important and dynamic economy in the world.

Here is a graph I would not bet against.

 

[Toro]

Is the above ALL US government spending, or just the FEDS?

40% of GDP is actually pretty good if it includes all state and local governments, too.

In fact it's damned cheap given the world we live in.

It is all government at all levels - federal, state, country, city.

Federal spending is about a quarter of the economy.

uh, 40% would be over a third

Federal spending is about 25%.

Federal spending PLUS state spending PLUS country spending PLUS city spending is nearly 40%.

 

[Oddball]

I'm surprised that Japan is so low. Here's another graph of interest:

Overall Productivity ppp by country. Definition, graph and map.

I was a bit surprised by that too.

Your graph of productivity is a great one. It is the single biggest reason why the harbingers of doom are wrong about the United States, regardless of whomever is in power. Despite the disaster in the financial markets, I have yet to see anything that has fundamentally changed the productive capacity of the American people nor the rock solid institutions of this country. When we eventually emerge from this, the US will still be the single most important and dynamic economy in the world.

I've seen one thing that's not normal....People holding their financial cards -so to speak- until they find out what's going to happen with the fool socialized medicine and cap-n-redistribute energy tax scams currently in the works.

Kill off those two Frankenstein's monsters and we'll go a long way to restoring normalcy in the marketplace.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here is a good tool for the topic. You can change the parameters for federal, state and local taxes as a percentage of GDP

US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP in United States 2009-2010 - Federal State Local

 

[mascale]

Dude Again!

No one sane wants a return to the normal marketplace post 9/11, post Vietnam, post-Korea, post WWII, post Spanish Revolution(?), post WWI, post Lincoln's War Against The White People, Post the Mexican War, post-The French Revolution, Post the 100 years war, or in fact post-most-or-all-of history.

If you notice, now: There are numbers on the money. Money can be thought of as a medium of mass communication. Barter and share-cropping, plantation and tribal, types of economies are not the norm.

It's time that the Presbyterians got past all that!

The times of Christ, even, were Roman and post-Hellenic. When the testimony at the trial before Caiphas--made it clear that an idol in Heaven was to be central to the Cristian Message: Then it can even be stated!

"Better A Ceasar In The Heavens, Than a Ceasaress!" The Roman concept of Public Works was known of the time, and the concept of doctor priests was known of the time. All of these were reliant on the State of rulers of the time.

No ideology was needed, and mostly the market-place was for luxuries. People lived on their farms, or in their villages. International Interdependence was far-away from the norm.

Now it is not.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Surf all day, "medicate' and what-not all night! Little kids even, don't need The Leader, telling them all about it! This Administration is past all that, and the "Reagan Trajectory" message, and and the slurs of the Clintons, and the end of the War in Iraq, and the nuclear oblvion of Pakistan, And the public option in health care! This is America, past all that! (Some adults seem to understand about that!)"

 

[Toro]

I've seen one thing that's not normal....People holding their financial cards -so to speak- until they find out what's going to happen with the fool socialized medicine and cap-n-redistribute energy tax scams currently in the works.

Kill off those two Frankenstein's monsters and we'll go a long way to restoring normalcy in the marketplace.

What is occurring in Washington does not change the underlying productive capacity of this nation.

We have lived through the Civil War, the terrible depressions of the 1870s and 1930s, two world wars, a Cold War, The New Deal, The Great Society, increased taxes, increased government involvement, various other wars such as Iraq, Vietnam, Korea - all of which are far greater than what is being proposed today - yet the American economy has continued to grow at a fairly constant pace over at least 140 years.

That tells you something about the American people and the institutions around which it is built.

Political and ideological people of all stripes overestimate their own political viewpoints and underestimate the underlying strengths of this country and its people.

 

[Paulie]

Toro, it's my belief though that most of that growth came from the inflationary practices of the Keynesians, namely those at the Federal Reserve.

Sure, your economy is going to "grow" if you print money endlessly. But there ARE repercussions from that though, and history is full of examples of such.

 

[Toro]

Growth is after inflation.

Even if you don't believe that, all you have to do is look at society compared to 100, 50 or 20 years ago. Life is easier now than it was because of innovation.

In the end, the only thing that matters is productivity growth, not monetary policy (though monetary policy effects the short and intermediate term). Productivity growth has tracked economic growth over long periods of time. Nothing has changed to make me believe that productivity is going to fall.

 

[Oddball]

I've seen one thing that's not normal....People holding their financial cards -so to speak- until they find out what's going to happen with the fool socialized medicine and cap-n-redistribute energy tax scams currently in the works.

Kill off those two Frankenstein's monsters and we'll go a long way to restoring normalcy in the marketplace.

What is occurring in Washington does not change the underlying productive capacity of this nation.

We have lived through the Civil War, the terrible depressions of the 1870s and 1930s, two world wars, a Cold War, The New Deal, The Great Society, increased taxes, increased government involvement, various other wars such as Iraq, Vietnam, Korea - all of which are far greater than what is being proposed today - yet the American economy has continued to grow at a fairly constant pace over at least 140 years.

That tells you something about the American people and the institutions around which it is built.

Political and ideological people of all stripes overestimate their own political viewpoints and underestimate the underlying strengths of this country and its people.

Nothing can change the capacity, which is more or less infinite.

However, with overreaching business-killing policies, why would anyone want to utilize what exists, let alone create any more?

 

[Toro]

Nothing can change the capacity, which is more or less infinite.

However, with overreaching business-killing policies, why would anyone want to utilize what exists, let alone create any more?

The idea of infinite productive capacity is a wonderfully American ideal, and is one reason why America is so great. However, to get from here to there requires technological innovations to lower cost curves to expand capacity, i.e. grow productivity. Americans have been able to grow productivity through far worse than what is coming out of Washington today.

The two states that have the biggest bases for new technological innovations as both have the largest venture capital industries are Massachusetts and California, both of which most conservatives would be examples of what not to do. Yet VC firms are far more likely to locate in northern California or around Boston than more conservatives states such as, say, Mississippi or Wyoming, which means that the fundamental institutions supporting innovation in this country transcend mere politics.

 

[Oddball]

Speaking of transcending politics, those companies also have something that helps them: Location.

In places like Minnesota, where that's not as much of an issue, the very illiberal high tax and regulation state is losing businesses to Iowa and South Dakota.

In fact, every few years, they have to legislatively bribe 3M to stay.....I don't think SDMM would have quite the ring.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Note that almost all of those nations have socialized medical services.

Where does America score on that chart after a fascistic takeover of nearly 1/5 of the total economy, eh?

Bingo.

And to answer, probably at the top of the chart.

(And to explain my previous comment on Switzerland:

Switzerland....whose model many have held up as the model that we should follow.

We already spend more than them NOW. How would spending look afterwards?)