Government provided Health Care

[RetiredGySgt]

If the Government provides Health Care, whether spelled out in this bill or not, it will RATION the care. That is how it works.

The Government can not afford to pay for everything for everyone, even if they took all our money. And in fact the research that backs up this health care bill out of the House spells it out clearly. Specifically it identifies the elderly and those under the age of 2 as being less important and so they will be the first to suffer from reduced services.

Knowing that the Government can not efficiently run anything, I can promise it won't end there.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

By the way, all currently run Government Health care IS rationed also. That INCLUDES Military health Care. Active duty which gets the best treatment still does not have access to new procedures or medications until or unless the Government decides they should, a slow cumbersome process at the best of times. Medicare and Medicaid are also rationed.

 

[KittenKoder]

RGS ... props on the least partisan thing you have posted.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And I see NO ONE wants to discuss the obvious. So much for that approach.

 

[hvacjones]

Proof that death panels are real. Astonishing!

Death Panel Advisors from FOD Team - Video

 

[AllieBaba]

It's already happening. My insurance has changed for the worse, and my 75 y.o. mother talked to me last night saying her premium for her retirement health care, which she picked up from working years as a nurse at a VA hospital, increased from something like $90 per month to $130. Plus she pays $200 + for her med "co pays".

In addition, I have medicare clients coming to my office in droves confused by the fact that they are suddenly having to change pharmacies and providers....and this is huge because here in rural America, that means driving hundreds of miles to fill prescriptions, if your local pharmacy is no longer on the "go to" list.

It's putting our local pharmacy out of business, and they're heartbroken about it. We have 2 pharmacies in our area, and they've been outed. Which means my clients, who live in them middle of nowhere, now have to drive or be driven hundreds of miles out of their way. Not an easy thing for people who don't have cars or are unable to drive, who aren't familiar with the towns and pharmacies they must now go to, and are confused by the whole nightmare.

Many of them will go without because of it, and die.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Proof that death panels are real. Astonishing!

Death Panel Advisors from FOD Team - Video

No one is discussing death panels here. Keep up will ya?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

All you cowardly Liberals running away from this discussion. And you have the balls to whine in threads where it is pointed out that rationing is going to happen. Cowards one and all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Where are all the liberals?

 

[Ravi]

If the Government provides Health Care, whether spelled out in this bill or not, it will RATION the care. That is how it works.

The Government can not afford to pay for everything for everyone, even if they took all our money. And in fact the research that backs up this health care bill out of the House spells it out clearly. Specifically it identifies the elderly and those under the age of 2 as being less important and so they will be the first to suffer from reduced services.

Knowing that the Government can not efficiently run anything, I can promise it won't end there.

Is your health care rationed?

 

[Ravi]

RGS...what medical treatment have you been denied?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If the Government provides Health Care, whether spelled out in this bill or not, it will RATION the care. That is how it works.

The Government can not afford to pay for everything for everyone, even if they took all our money. And in fact the research that backs up this health care bill out of the House spells it out clearly. Specifically it identifies the elderly and those under the age of 2 as being less important and so they will be the first to suffer from reduced services.

Knowing that the Government can not efficiently run anything, I can promise it won't end there.

Is your health care rationed?

Yes it is. There are procedures and medications the Government does not cover. In my specific case several medications I take I can not get at the military hospital because they are not on the list of approved medications so instead I have to use the Tricare system and pay my share rather then get them for free. And some of them require lots of paper work from the doctor to justify every time it is due for refill.

I have bad legs, I need support stockings to keep from losing my legs, guess what? The stockings are expensive and the Government does not pay at all for them, no cost share or anything, NOT tricare and not Medicare. I had to spend weeks in physical therapy with my legs wrapped to get the swelling down enough to get the stockings. All the material I had to buy for those treatments was also not covered.

I can not currently get one of the meds I have taken for years because the Government refuses to pay for it anymore, no cost share nothing, I either have to not take it or pay for it out of pocket.

Currently none of the procedures I have been recommended for are on the no go list, but it exists. Further in the VA hospital where I could get free treatment there is a laundry list of meds and procedures they simply do not authorize ever.

It is the same for active duty, new procedures that were not pioneered by military doctors take years to get approved before they are authorized by the military. Wars can speed the process up but as soon as the war is over it goes back to the same old slow approval process.

Dependents that are on the cheapest ( for them) system of Tricare must wait for space in the Military hospitals or ask for special permission to go out of system ( not always approved) And Military Hospitals are short staff and priority is given active Duty, as it should be.

I chose the more expensive method for Tricare because currently Medicare pays my deductible or rather between the two I generally pay nothing for routine care. I did that before I had medicare and paid the extra because if I had signed on for the other way I would have lost my doctors and had to only go through the military and their approved doctors. I am 90 miles from a VA Hospital so except for a few stays in the mental ward when I was very depressed and could not afford to pay the civilian hospital I do not use it. When I am up there I can not see my family at all.

I was in and out of the wards, civilian and VA 2 or 3 times a year from 96 to 2000. I did not have medicare and had to pay 25 percent of the allowed bill every stay if civilian. I was not able to work when I was in the hospital and was only getting about 1000 dollars in retirement pay, the wife worked at a low paying job as well. My doctor even forgave 2 stays cause I could not pay, he was on the board and just had them write off my part of the bill.

Rationing is a fact of life. It is pretty loose right now for Tricare and the military but not for Medicare and it sure as hell won't be for long when the Government suddenly has to pay BILLIONS more for everyone.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

By the way, all currently run Government Health care IS rationed also. That INCLUDES Military health Care. Active duty which gets the best treatment still does not have access to new procedures or medications until or unless the Government decides they should, a slow cumbersome process at the best of times. Medicare and Medicaid are also rationed.

The VA hospital is a good example of a reason to NOT have the government run health care. It has improved much over the last few years but its still not as good as it should be. A good friend of mine is a marine who got his knee all screwed up in AFG. They kept pushing him off and making him wait for the proper treatment. It took 2 months for him to get to see a doctor back home. Then it took 4 more months for the specialist. Another 2 months for the surgery, but they got him into physical therapy pretty fast.

Another good example is the poor handling of the H1N1 vaccine distribution.


Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it -Someone Smart

 

[Ravi]

It sounds as if your health care coverage rations in the exact same way that private health care does. The real difference is that your overall coverage cost is cheaper for you...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I haven't been rationed in the way RetiredGySgt just described on my $40/week healthcare plan. I have a pre-existing heart condition and a few other small muscular issues that always get covered when I end up needing tests and meds.

I dont know how you put a price on his "cost" considering he sacrificed many years of his life in service of this country. Its hard to put a cost on that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It sounds as if your health care coverage rations in the exact same way that private health care does. The real difference is that your overall coverage cost is cheaper for you...

Until the Government starts running everyone's health care, then you will see real rationing. The Government is not an endless hole of money. As soon as they try to run everyone and it starts costing BILLIONS more you will find, as in every country that has socialized medicine that there are things simply not covered based on all kind of requirements to do with age and viability of the illness or condition.

Right now the VA does hip replacements, but not if your not over 60 I believe, or meet some other special criteria. My oldest brother needed both hips replaced and has had to just live in pain till he is old enough for them to do the procedures.

 

[Ravi]

It sounds as if your health care coverage rations in the exact same way that private health care does. The real difference is that your overall coverage cost is cheaper for you...

Until the Government starts running everyone's health care, then you will see real rationing. The Government is not an endless hole of money. As soon as they try to run everyone and it starts costing BILLIONS more you will find, as in every country that has socialized medicine that there are things simply not covered based on all kind of requirements to do with age and viability of the illness or condition.

Right now the VA does hip replacements, but not if your not over 60 I believe, or meet some other special criteria. My oldest brother needed both hips replaced and has had to just live in pain till he is old enough for them to do the procedures.

The point is...not all procedures or medications are covered by any health care provider. What you've been denied would have more than likely been denied by a private carrier...and a private carrier that could cancel you at any minute for no good reason.

IMO, medicare has done an excellent job of providing coverage for seniors. My parents, MIL and several elderly relatives have never been denied coverage for anything.

 

[Bern80]

If the Government provides Health Care, whether spelled out in this bill or not, it will RATION the care. That is how it works.

The Government can not afford to pay for everything for everyone, even if they took all our money. And in fact the research that backs up this health care bill out of the House spells it out clearly. Specifically it identifies the elderly and those under the age of 2 as being less important and so they will be the first to suffer from reduced services.

Knowing that the Government can not efficiently run anything, I can promise it won't end there.

Is your health care rationed?

Yes it is. There are procedures and medications the Government does not cover. In my specific case several medications I take I can not get at the military hospital because they are not on the list of approved medications so instead I have to use the Tricare system and pay my share rather then get them for free. And some of them require lots of paper work from the doctor to justify every time it is due for refill.

I have bad legs, I need support stockings to keep from losing my legs, guess what? The stockings are expensive and the Government does not pay at all for them, no cost share or anything, NOT tricare and not Medicare. I had to spend weeks in physical therapy with my legs wrapped to get the swelling down enough to get the stockings. All the material I had to buy for those treatments was also not covered.

I can not currently get one of the meds I have taken for years because the Government refuses to pay for it anymore, no cost share nothing, I either have to not take it or pay for it out of pocket.

Currently none of the procedures I have been recommended for are on the no go list, but it exists. Further in the VA hospital where I could get free treatment there is a laundry list of meds and procedures they simply do not authorize ever.

It is the same for active duty, new procedures that were not pioneered by military doctors take years to get approved before they are authorized by the military. Wars can speed the process up but as soon as the war is over it goes back to the same old slow approval process.

Dependents that are on the cheapest ( for them) system of Tricare must wait for space in the Military hospitals or ask for special permission to go out of system ( not always approved) And Military Hospitals are short staff and priority is given active Duty, as it should be.

I chose the more expensive method for Tricare because currently Medicare pays my deductible or rather between the two I generally pay nothing for routine care. I did that before I had medicare and paid the extra because if I had signed on for the other way I would have lost my doctors and had to only go through the military and their approved doctors. I am 90 miles from a VA Hospital so except for a few stays in the mental ward when I was very depressed and could not afford to pay the civilian hospital I do not use it. When I am up there I can not see my family at all.

I was in and out of the wards, civilian and VA 2 or 3 times a year from 96 to 2000. I did not have medicare and had to pay 25 percent of the allowed bill every stay if civilian. I was not able to work when I was in the hospital and was only getting about 1000 dollars in retirement pay, the wife worked at a low paying job as well. My doctor even forgave 2 stays cause I could not pay, he was on the board and just had them write off my part of the bill.

Rationing is a fact of life. It is pretty loose right now for Tricare and the military but not for Medicare and it sure as hell won't be for long when the Government suddenly has to pay BILLIONS more for everyone.

On veterans day I just wanted to say this pisses me off to no end. It may be the sadest most disgusting thing I have ever read. Most of the time I am of the opinion that people should bare some financial burden for their medical expenses, but if there is one group of people that should get free health care, it's veterans. That you have to deal with this crap after serving is absolutely disgusting.

 

[Bern80]

It sounds as if your health care coverage rations in the exact same way that private health care does. The real difference is that your overall coverage cost is cheaper for you...

Which is proof of what I've been telling you people all along. Cheaper does not equal better access, which is suppossedly the goal.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It sounds as if your health care coverage rations in the exact same way that private health care does. The real difference is that your overall coverage cost is cheaper for you...

Until the Government starts running everyone's health care, then you will see real rationing. The Government is not an endless hole of money. As soon as they try to run everyone and it starts costing BILLIONS more you will find, as in every country that has socialized medicine that there are things simply not covered based on all kind of requirements to do with age and viability of the illness or condition.

Right now the VA does hip replacements, but not if your not over 60 I believe, or meet some other special criteria. My oldest brother needed both hips replaced and has had to just live in pain till he is old enough for them to do the procedures.

The point is...not all procedures or medications are covered by any health care provider. What you've been denied would have more than likely been denied by a private carrier...and a private carrier that could cancel you at any minute for no good reason.

IMO, medicare has done an excellent job of providing coverage for seniors. My parents, MIL and several elderly relatives have never been denied coverage for anything.

The Point is once the Government takes over and gets the bill you will find all kind of services not allowed or you have to jump through major hurtles to get. The point is that the RESEARCH done by this administration points to EXACTLY which groups will be the first to face the rationing. The elderly and those under 2 years old. Both have been identified in the CURRENT ADMINISTRATIONS research as being the place to cut health care costs. One paper I read that the elderly could provide a 70 percent saving on health care costs if handled correctly. The lady seemed quite gleeful she was talking about cutting off the elderly from all manner of treatments to gain a 70 percent savings.