Government has the power to levy taxes, but...

[M14 Shooter]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Are those who collect the taxes compensated for their tax collection efforts?
Doesn’t forcing them to collect taxes create a condition of involuntary servitude?
If so, how does this not violate their rights?

 

[Avatar4321]

The 13th amendment argument against it is interesting. but my guess is the necessary and proper clause would give them authority.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The 13th amendment argument against it is interesting. but my guess is the necessary and proper clause would give them authority.

-The 13th amendment, if it applies, modifies and limits the elastic clause
-It is not necessary for the government to force people to collect the taxes it levies
-As it places people in a condition of involuntary servitude, it is not proper for the government to force private citizens to collect the taxes it levies.

 

[Avatar4321]

The 13th amendment argument against it is interesting. but my guess is the necessary and proper clause would give them authority.

-The 13th amendment, if it applies, modifies and limits the elastic clause
-It is not necessary for the government to force people to collect the taxes it levies
-As it places people in a condition of involuntary servitude, it is not proper for the government to force private citizens to collect the taxes it levies.

That's a big "IF".

The Courts tend to give government plenty of leeway in determining what is necessary.

I dont disagree. I tend to think that if people saw how much the government was taking from their taxes each week, there would be a rebellion.

 

[Intense]

You need to look into Obama's Executive Orders regarding forced labor. The answer there, is yes.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...order-national-defense-resources-preparedness

 

[M14 Shooter]

The 13th amendment argument against it is interesting. but my guess is the necessary and proper clause would give them authority.

-The 13th amendment, if it applies, modifies and limits the elastic clause
-It is not necessary for the government to force people to collect the taxes it levies
-As it places people in a condition of involuntary servitude, it is not proper for the government to force private citizens to collect the taxes it levies.

That's a big "IF".

The Courts tend to give government plenty of leeway in determining what is necessary.

I dont disagree. I tend to think that if people saw how much the government was taking from their taxes each week, there would be a rebellion.

The 13th amendment does not apply to the draft.
However, the collection of taxes is not the draft.

 

[Skull Pilot]

People who are drafted get paid for their service.

I don't get paid for having to collect state and federal taxes from my employees and customers.

 

[M14 Shooter]

People who are drafted get paid for their service.

I don't get paid for having to collect state and federal taxes from my employees and customers.

Sounds like like you need to sue the government for violating your rights under the 13th amedment.

 

[saveliberty]

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the government's right to collect a tax.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the government's right to collect a tax.

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the government's right to collect a tax.

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

I disagree. The Government issues licenses to conduct business and can require with in that frame work the demand that business collect taxes. A State can by virtue of the Federal Government compel State business to collect and deliver Federal tax as well as State Tax. It is simply a cost of doing business as authorized by the Government.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Supreme Court has consistently upheld the government's right to collect a tax.

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

I disagree. The Government issues licenses to conduct business and can require with in that frame work the demand that business collect taxes. A State can by virtue of the Federal Government compel State business to collect and deliver Federal tax as well as State Tax. It is simply a cost of doing business as authorized by the Government.

The point is that the compulsion itself creates the condition of involuntary servitude in that you are working for the government w/o compensation under the threat of legal consequences.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Yes.

Are those who collect the taxes compensated for their tax collection efforts?

No.

Doesn’t forcing them to collect taxes create a condition of involuntary servitude?

No.

If so, how does this not violate their rights?

It doesn't.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

I disagree. The Government issues licenses to conduct business and can require with in that frame work the demand that business collect taxes. A State can by virtue of the Federal Government compel State business to collect and deliver Federal tax as well as State Tax. It is simply a cost of doing business as authorized by the Government.

The point is that the compulsion itself creates the condition of involuntary servitude in that you are working for the government w/o compensation under the threat of legal consequences.

Using that argument, is the City of San Francisco is enslaving me when they tell me I have to put my sort my trash into compost and recycling?

That's forced labor!

 

[M14 Shooter]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Yes.

Are those who collect the taxes compensated for their tax collection efforts?

No.

Doesn’t forcing them to collect taxes create a condition of involuntary servitude?

No.

If so, how does this not violate their rights?

It doesn't.

Please explain how the bolded statememts are true

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Government has the power to levy taxes, but does it have the power to force private citizens to collect them?

Yes.

No.

No.

If so, how does this not violate their rights?

It doesn't.

Please explain how the bolded statememts are true

No one is forcing anyone to have a payroll.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I disagree. The Government issues licenses to conduct business and can require with in that frame work the demand that business collect taxes. A State can by virtue of the Federal Government compel State business to collect and deliver Federal tax as well as State Tax. It is simply a cost of doing business as authorized by the Government.

The point is that the compulsion itself creates the condition of involuntary servitude in that you are working for the government w/o compensation under the threat of legal consequences.

Using that argument, is the City of San Francisco is enslaving me when they tell me I have to put my sort my trash into compost and recycling?

Are you required to perform a service for the government, w/o compensation, under threat of legal consequence shoudl you fail to do so?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yes.
No.
No.
It doesn't.

Please explain how the bolded statememts are true

No one is forcing anyone to have a payroll.

If you woudl like your respone to carry any credibility, you'll have to do better than that.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Please explain how the bolded statememts are true

No one is forcing anyone to have a payroll.

If you woudl like your respone to carry any credibility, you'll have to do better than that.

My statement is true.

 

[Al_Fundie]

The government -isn't- collecting the taxes -- the business owner collects the revenue, and then sends it to the government.
He does so under threat of legal consequence, should he fail to comply, which falls under the legal defintion of involuntary servitude.

I disagree. The Government issues licenses to conduct business and can require with in that frame work the demand that business collect taxes. A State can by virtue of the Federal Government compel State business to collect and deliver Federal tax as well as State Tax. It is simply a cost of doing business as authorized by the Government.

The point is that the compulsion itself creates the condition of involuntary servitude in that you are working for the government w/o compensation under the threat of legal consequences.

Nothing involuntary about it, unless you're retarded and don't realize going in that you will have to collect and pay taxes if you open a business. In which I would submit you probably wouldn't last as a business owner anyway.