Government Employment Same Rate as 1976

[Toro]

Government workers as a percentage of the population is about the same as it was 35 years ago. There are relatively fewer federal employees than at any time since at least 1976. Those blips are temporary census workers.

In fact, if you exclude those employed in education, the rate of government employment has fallen since 1976. Teachers and others working in education account for nearly half of all government employees.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/09/government-employment-since-1976.html

 

[Mad Scientist]

What would the cost be compared to 1976? I just read recently that the average gubamint employee makes 120K in pay and benefits whereas the average civilian employee doing the same job makes about half.

OUR VIEW: Fat federal employees burden economy (vote) | workers, federal, make - Opinion - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO

Workers in the federal government now earn, on average, double what private-sector workers make, according to a USA Today study released Tuesday.
“Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation,”​

So while employment could be the same, the cost could be much higher.

 

[Toro]

I think the cost is higher, particularly when you include pensions and benefits. Government employee pension plans will be a problem in the future.

 

[rightwinger]

What would the cost be compared to 1976? I just read recently that the average gubamint employee makes 120K in pay and benefits whereas the average civilian employee doing the same job makes about half.

OUR VIEW: Fat federal employees burden economy (vote) | workers, federal, make - Opinion - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO

Workers in the federal government now earn, on average, double what private-sector workers make, according to a USA Today study released Tuesday.
“Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation,”​

So while employment could be the same, the cost could be much higher.

You were right up until the point where you said "doing the same job" Government Employees make considerably less than their counterparts in the private sector when you look at comparable job titles

Compare a Government accountant to a private acccountaint, a government engineer to a private industry engineer, government starting pay to private sector starting pay, government lawyer to private sector lawyer.........The government will pay LESS in each case

If you really want a disparity....look at the pay of a government executive to private sector executive

 

[Mad Scientist]

You were right up until the point where you said "doing the same job" Government Employees make considerably less than their counterparts in the private sector when you look at comparable job titles

Compare a Government accountant to a private accountant, a government engineer to a private industry engineer, government starting pay to private sector starting pay, government lawyer to private sector lawyer.........The government will pay LESS in each case

If you really want a disparity....look at the pay of a government executive to private sector executive

You do make valid points. The private sector pay is much higher for those positions. The problems I see are twofold:

1. Civilian employment is generally "at will" meaning the company can let you go at anytime. It takes a very long time to hire a government employee and once they get hired, it's very difficult to get rid of them for almost any cause.

2. Many people, myself included, question the need to have such a large government in the first place. The government is there to support and defend our freedoms, our rights and our country. It's not supposed to be used as a federal "jobs program" of sorts.

 

[boedicca]

All toro is doing is proving that those people are costing us much more money for less service.

The size of all that government is now 45% of GDP.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The average govt employee salary is around 100,000. These aren't seen on the GS pay scales. After the agency matches the employees investment in the I, G, C, funds and the group health care that govt employees get the salary is around 100,000 on average. Now, when you get higher up the scale such as GS 11s, 12s, the salary rate goes even higher.

 

[Madeline]

Toro, I have seen many a graph claiming that such employment has risen sharply, and now hovers around 50%. Are the authors of such graphs just flat out lying?

 

[Oddball]

I think the cost is higher, particularly when you include pensions and benefits. Government employee pension plans will be a problem in the future.

They're a problem in the here and now.

What do you think all the "stimulus" spending and "saved jobs" directed at state employees in general, and AFSCME & AFT/NEA members in particular, was all about?

 

[rightwinger]

You were right up until the point where you said "doing the same job" Government Employees make considerably less than their counterparts in the private sector when you look at comparable job titles

Compare a Government accountant to a private accountant, a government engineer to a private industry engineer, government starting pay to private sector starting pay, government lawyer to private sector lawyer.........The government will pay LESS in each case

If you really want a disparity....look at the pay of a government executive to private sector executive

You do make valid points. The private sector pay is much higher for those positions. The problems I see are twofold:

1. Civilian employment is generally "at will" meaning the company can let you go at anytime. It takes a very long time to hire a government employee and once they get hired, it's very difficult to get rid of them for almost any cause.

2. Many people, myself included, question the need to have such a large government in the first place. The government is there to support and defend our freedoms, our rights and our country. It's not supposed to be used as a federal "jobs program" of sorts.

What is a "large government"??

Is 2% of the population a large amount? We have over 300 million people and the largest economy on earth ....and yet we have a smaller government percentage wise than any other industrialized country

 

[Skull Pilot]

You were right up until the point where you said "doing the same job" Government Employees make considerably less than their counterparts in the private sector when you look at comparable job titles

Compare a Government accountant to a private accountant, a government engineer to a private industry engineer, government starting pay to private sector starting pay, government lawyer to private sector lawyer.........The government will pay LESS in each case

If you really want a disparity....look at the pay of a government executive to private sector executive

You do make valid points. The private sector pay is much higher for those positions. The problems I see are twofold:

1. Civilian employment is generally "at will" meaning the company can let you go at anytime. It takes a very long time to hire a government employee and once they get hired, it's very difficult to get rid of them for almost any cause.

2. Many people, myself included, question the need to have such a large government in the first place. The government is there to support and defend our freedoms, our rights and our country. It's not supposed to be used as a federal "jobs program" of sorts.

What is a "large government"??

Is 2% of the population a large amount? We have over 300 million people and the largest economy on earth ....and yet we have a smaller government percentage wise than any other industrialized country

Government eats up nearly 50% of GDP I would say that's pretty fucking big.

We should get the cost of government below 30% of GDP then and only then will we see meaningful economic growth.

 

[KissMy]

Government pensions are guaranteed by tax payers (guaranteed to break the tax payers). The only guarantee the taxpayers are afforded is a $100K FDIC Bank Account. Government employees million dollar pensions are backed by us. Besides the fact that they make double what the private sector makes with job guaranteed by us while we twist in the wind with losses from their bad decisions. They also benefit heavily from corruption, kickbacks & bribes for their policy's that benefit their rich benefactors at the expense of the citizens.

 

[rightwinger]

Government pensions are guaranteed by tax payers (guaranteed to break the tax payers). The only guarantee the taxpayers are afforded is a $100K FDIC Bank Account. Government employees million dollar pensions are backed by us. Besides the fact that they make double what the private sector makes with job guaranteed by us while we twist in the wind with losses from their bad decisions. They also benefit heavily from corruption, kickbacks & bribes for their policy's that benefit their rich benefactors at the expense of the citizens.

Interesting rant......do you have anything to back it up?

Your chart is cute but it does not compare similar jobs only gross pay. Since an overwhelming majority of Federal Employees have advanced degrees...is it relevant to compare their salaries to non-dgreed workers?

 

[boedicca]

I think the cost is higher, particularly when you include pensions and benefits. Government employee pension plans will be a problem in the future.

They're a problem in the here and now.

What do you think all the "stimulus" spending and "saved jobs" directed at state employees in general, and AFSCME & AFT/NEA members in particular, was all about?

Indeed. That was the entire point of the "Stimulus". The Dems were counting on the economy recovering in spite of their inane programs. They believe us poor shlubs in the private sector will shoulder whatever burden they choose to place upon us.

So, they funneled the "Stimulus" money into propping up public employee union jobs betting that tax receipts would increase soon enough to prevent lay offs. All this did was make the problem worse by delaying the needed restructuring.

Our Government: Never deal with a problem now that can't be foisted off on future generations.

 

[KissMy]

Government pensions are guaranteed by tax payers (guaranteed to break the tax payers). The only guarantee the taxpayers are afforded is a $100K FDIC Bank Account. Government employees million dollar pensions are backed by us. Besides the fact that they make double what the private sector makes with job guaranteed by us while we twist in the wind with losses from their bad decisions. They also benefit heavily from corruption, kickbacks & bribes for their policy's that benefit their rich benefactors at the expense of the citizens.

Interesting rant......do you have anything to back it up?

Your chart is cute but it does not compare similar jobs only gross pay. Since an overwhelming majority of Federal Employees have advanced degrees...is it relevant to compare their salaries to non-dgreed workers?

One thing is for sure. You are a overpaid scumbag government employee that can't even spell, who feeds off hard working citizens & has the nerve to justify government crime. You do all this as you mock sewer workers with your avatar.

 

[rightwinger]

You do make valid points. The private sector pay is much higher for those positions. The problems I see are twofold:

1. Civilian employment is generally "at will" meaning the company can let you go at anytime. It takes a very long time to hire a government employee and once they get hired, it's very difficult to get rid of them for almost any cause.

2. Many people, myself included, question the need to have such a large government in the first place. The government is there to support and defend our freedoms, our rights and our country. It's not supposed to be used as a federal "jobs program" of sorts.

What is a "large government"??

Is 2% of the population a large amount? We have over 300 million people and the largest economy on earth ....and yet we have a smaller government percentage wise than any other industrialized country

Government eats up nearly 50% of GDP I would say that's pretty fucking big.

We should get the cost of government below 30% of GDP then and only then will we see meaningful economic growth.

Below 30%?? Lets see which countries are below 30%

The Audacious Epigone: Government spending as a percentage of GDP by country

106. Sri Lanka 29.5
107. South Korea 29.3
108. Chile 29.1
109. Madagascar 28.3
110. Panama 28.0
111. Pakistan 28.0
112. Albania 27.9
113. Burkina Faso 27.7
114. Uganda 27.6
115. Tunisia 27.4
116. Mexico 26.7
117. Paraguay 26.4
118. Nepal 26.3
119. Nicaragua 26.0
120. Ecuador 25.8
121. Honduras 25.6
122. Aruba 25.6
123. Togo 25.3
124. Benin 24.8
125. Tanzania 24.6
126. Nigeria 24.1
127. Equatorial Guinea 23.9
128. Sudan 23.3
129. Congo, Dem. Rep. of 22.9
130. Thailand 22.8
131. El Salvador 22.5
132. China 22.0
133. Ethiopia 21.8
134. British Virgin Islands 21.5
135. Cote d'Ivoire 21.4
136. Poland 21.2
137. Taiwan 21.2
138. Mauritius 21.2
139. Laos 21.0
140. Guinea 21.0
141. Russia 20.9
142. India 20.4
143. Chad 19.9
144. US 19.9
145. Cameroon 19.1
146. Argentina 19.1
147. Armenia 17.8
148. Philippines 17.7
149. Brazil 17.3
150. Hong Kong 17.0
151. Guatemala 16.7
152. CAR 16.6
153. Costa Rica 16.5
154. Haiti 16.4
155. Singapore 16.3
156. Bahamas 16.0
157. Cambodia 13.3
158. Bangladesh 12.8
159. Turkmenistan 9.6
160. Afghanistan 9.2

 

[code1211]

Government pensions are guaranteed by tax payers (guaranteed to break the tax payers). The only guarantee the taxpayers are afforded is a $100K FDIC Bank Account. Government employees million dollar pensions are backed by us. Besides the fact that they make double what the private sector makes with job guaranteed by us while we twist in the wind with losses from their bad decisions. They also benefit heavily from corruption, kickbacks & bribes for their policy's that benefit their rich benefactors at the expense of the citizens.

Interesting rant......do you have anything to back it up?

Your chart is cute but it does not compare similar jobs only gross pay. Since an overwhelming majority of Federal Employees have advanced degrees...is it relevant to compare their salaries to non-dgreed workers?

Yes, it is.

Additionally, most jobs in the government are or should be administrative. Janitors and the like should be contract employees. In every other industry, the administartive population has dropped since 1995 massively due to computerization and enhanced communication.

30 years a go, I would have had my own secretary. In today's world, that would be a needless expense that would contribute toward making my company uncompetitive in the marketplace. If the population of government workers is about the same as it was 30 years ago, you have to wonder what they're all doing.

Probably checking porn and attending union meetings.

 

[Toro]

You were right up until the point where you said "doing the same job" Government Employees make considerably less than their counterparts in the private sector when you look at comparable job titles

Compare a Government accountant to a private acccountaint, a government engineer to a private industry engineer, government starting pay to private sector starting pay, government lawyer to private sector lawyer.........The government will pay LESS in each case

If you really want a disparity....look at the pay of a government executive to private sector executive

I have worked for government, and this is definitely the case, at least where I worked. In my profession, government workers are paid dramatically less than the private sector.

 

[Toro]

Yes, it is.

Additionally, most jobs in the government are or should be administrative. Janitors and the like should be contract employees. In every other industry, the administartive population has dropped since 1995 massively due to computerization and enhanced communication.

30 years a go, I would have had my own secretary. In today's world, that would be a needless expense that would contribute toward making my company uncompetitive in the marketplace. If the population of government workers is about the same as it was 30 years ago, you have to wonder what they're all doing.

Probably checking porn and attending union meetings.

I'll tell you about my experience.

The government could pay out dramatically less than what they already pay to outsource investment management. We've run the figures. If the government paid market wage for money managers, the government would be better off, at least at my place. The problem though is that fees paid is not a line item in the budget. Fees paid out gets buried in performance. So if you pay, say 1% in fees, instead of earning 10%, the net return to the government is 9%. You could build a professional staff for half that for most government funds, and the net return would be 9.5%. So the government would save 0.5%. However, politicians go bananas if someone gets paid $500k. How can taxpayers pay that much? How egregious is that? But fees paid are buried in performance, and the cost winds up being much more, and nobody gets upset because you can't see the cost.

That doesn't mean I'm against privatization. I'm not. But taxpayers do not always get better value by outsourcing.

 

[Toro]

You do make valid points. The private sector pay is much higher for those positions. The problems I see are twofold:

1. Civilian employment is generally "at will" meaning the company can let you go at anytime. It takes a very long time to hire a government employee and once they get hired, it's very difficult to get rid of them for almost any cause.

2. Many people, myself included, question the need to have such a large government in the first place. The government is there to support and defend our freedoms, our rights and our country. It's not supposed to be used as a federal "jobs program" of sorts.

What is a "large government"??

Is 2% of the population a large amount? We have over 300 million people and the largest economy on earth ....and yet we have a smaller government percentage wise than any other industrialized country

Government eats up nearly 50% of GDP I would say that's pretty fucking big.

We should get the cost of government below 30% of GDP then and only then will we see meaningful economic growth.

That may be, but the total cost of running the federal government is about a day or two of total government spending over a year. That doesn't mean government workers aren't overpaid. What it means is that you could fire every single government employee and it would barely cause a ripple in total spending. Most government spending is for defense, social security and medicare.