Gov Shutdowns to settle political fights - proven counter-productive already?

[Harpy Eagle]

Shutdowns cost money, they harm the GDP and they do make the US look like stupid petulant children in the eyes of the world.

There goes Mr 'I'm a Libertarian' justifying big government once again.

Shutdowns do nothing about big government, they just make things worse because they cost more money, pay people for not working and harm the GDP which decreases tax revenue.

The fact you cheer for the shutdowns show you do not care about spending, you do not care about tax dollars being wasted. All you ever do is parrot stupid talking points.

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

wow.

that's a "reach" i see liberals make all the time to justify how *they* feel.

both big and small governments have a GDP and need to be strong for their base. correct? so you are making an issue where it isn't because of how you feel about someone.

very "liberal" of you. (if we're going to make unfounded generic accusations, that is)

Oh, so the amount of taxes being taken from Americans has nothing to do with the economy?

That's just brilliant.

The amount of taxes being taken from Americans has not changed during the shutdown you stupid fucking moron.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Shutdowns cost money, they harm the GDP and they do make the US look like stupid petulant children in the eyes of the world.

There goes Mr 'I'm a Libertarian' justifying big government once again.

Shutdowns do nothing about big government, they just make things worse because they cost more money, pay people for not working and harm the GDP which decreases tax revenue.

The fact you cheer for the shutdowns show you do not care about spending, you do not care about tax dollars being wasted. All you ever do is parrot stupid talking points.

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

No, I did no such thing. Big government is still there even in a shutdown, you are just too fucking stupid to understand this basic fact.

In all seriousness, do you require help to tie your shoes?

Mr "I'm a Libertarian' says you will hurt the economy by reducing the government by 20%.

I never said any such thing, I said it could be cut by 25% in fact. But it is not being cut at all, the shutdown does not cut the size of government.

You are getting so desperate you have to now make up lies about me.

 

[NightFox]

US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
.

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There goes Mr 'I'm a Libertarian' justifying big government once again.

Shutdowns do nothing about big government, they just make things worse because they cost more money, pay people for not working and harm the GDP which decreases tax revenue.

The fact you cheer for the shutdowns show you do not care about spending, you do not care about tax dollars being wasted. All you ever do is parrot stupid talking points.

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

wow.

that's a "reach" i see liberals make all the time to justify how *they* feel.

both big and small governments have a GDP and need to be strong for their base. correct? so you are making an issue where it isn't because of how you feel about someone.

very "liberal" of you. (if we're going to make unfounded generic accusations, that is)

Oh, so the amount of taxes being taken from Americans has nothing to do with the economy?

That's just brilliant.

The amount of taxes being taken from Americans has not changed during the shutdown you stupid fucking moron.

The issue is about who gives a shit that government workers are told to go get a real job, dufus.
And you are the cheerleader for bigger government.

 

[iceberg]

Shutdowns cost money, they harm the GDP and they do make the US look like stupid petulant children in the eyes of the world.

There goes Mr 'I'm a Libertarian' justifying big government once again.

Shutdowns do nothing about big government, they just make things worse because they cost more money, pay people for not working and harm the GDP which decreases tax revenue.

The fact you cheer for the shutdowns show you do not care about spending, you do not care about tax dollars being wasted. All you ever do is parrot stupid talking points.

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

wow.

that's a "reach" i see liberals make all the time to justify how *they* feel.

both big and small governments have a GDP and need to be strong for their base. correct? so you are making an issue where it isn't because of how you feel about someone.

very "liberal" of you. (if we're going to make unfounded generic accusations, that is)

Oh, so the amount of taxes being taken from Americans has nothing to do with the economy?

That's just brilliant.

where was the size of the gov ever defined? he just said it harmed the GDP. pretty sure it would harm large OR small so again, you're doing a stretch armstrong here to get a jab in that has no real basis in reality.

have fun but you're the one looking agenda driven at this point.

 

[iceberg]

I deplore a US gov shutdown.
US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
and God only knows how your country is going to ravel apart as effects of the shutdown start to stack up, or how hard the damage done during a prolonged shutdown takes to overcome.

Meanwhile, you project such serious weakness to all countries that are at such a time at the top of your enemies / rivals list, that you endanger the longterm geopolitical stability of this world too.
Don't forget, they're not happy over in Russia and China with how many overseas bases they have, and how many the US has. If you give them a chance for rapid expansion due to weakness in the entire US system (not just the defense department, which will be the last to weaken in fact under the current circumstances), then they are likely to try to grab such expansion by force and intimidation.

Ok, that's enough bitching. I respect that i shouldn't bitch about something about offering fixes to the problems i mention.

Trump and his team, for instance, could recognize that there is more to border security than a simple wall. And the democrats might realize that a wall is an excellent tool to funnel people into processing centres, of which you need new ones that are suited not just for young men, but for entire families.
You need processing power for asylum applications, together with solid repatriation procedures for those asylum applications that you reject, and all that comes with that (housing, personell), not just a wall.

But instead of the Dems and the Reps being flexible and discussing immigration reform measures such as mentioned above here while the government is open,
they're both dug into a "our way or no highway at all" mode of thinking.

Your country is strong, flexible, and resilient, USA.
But US leaders, everything has it's limits, even entire countries. You are pushing your country beyond it's limits to put up with bad policies at the moment. Don't end up the leadership that caused the downfall of the US as a global power and end up the cause of all the local suffering that comes along with that.

The most productive event would be Pelosi ceasing breathing.

The Secret Service Says Nancy Pelosi Is Lying.

The Average Person says DUH.

 

[peacefan]

US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
.

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

You're guite salvagable as superpower that can be best trusted not to oppress others unnecessarily.
It's just a rude awakening to some perhaps, so rude that they might feel disempowered now.

The real problem is that a solution to these problems (wealth inequality, immigration, drugs, effective terrorism-defense that does not resort to racial profiling and mass face recognition everywhere or stuff like that) has not been found yet.

First you gotta find a solution-package, or at least a solution-package that properly solves *part* of the problem without making other problems in the nation even worse.
Then you gotta advertise these solutions into reality.
This is real work, and nobody is paying money for it.

But the payment is a planet truly saved, a humanity saved to the point of becoming a multi-planet species that is non-parasitical to those new worlds,
and you can enjoy the rewards of it during your next incarnation after your sure stay in Heaven after your death in hopefully a long long time from now.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Shutdowns do nothing about big government, they just make things worse because they cost more money, pay people for not working and harm the GDP which decreases tax revenue.

The fact you cheer for the shutdowns show you do not care about spending, you do not care about tax dollars being wasted. All you ever do is parrot stupid talking points.

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

wow.

that's a "reach" i see liberals make all the time to justify how *they* feel.

both big and small governments have a GDP and need to be strong for their base. correct? so you are making an issue where it isn't because of how you feel about someone.

very "liberal" of you. (if we're going to make unfounded generic accusations, that is)

Oh, so the amount of taxes being taken from Americans has nothing to do with the economy?

That's just brilliant.

The amount of taxes being taken from Americans has not changed during the shutdown you stupid fucking moron.

The issue is about who gives a shit that government workers are told to go get a real job, dufus.
And you are the cheerleader for bigger government.

So, now you move from taxes to who cares about the government workers. Nice surrender.

The truth of the matter is that anyone that is not a mindless partisan sheep cares about them, they are just normal people wanting to earn a living for themselves and their family. They are not the devil

 

[NightFox]

US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
.

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

You're guite salvagable as superpower that can be best trusted not to oppress others unnecessarily.
.

While I applaud your optimism, it appears that we've long forgotten the hobnail boots that got us to "superpower" status and are now fully comfortable in our silk slippers while we stroll down the path trodden by numerous other Empires on the back slope.

The instability of the American Political System is just a symptom of the final stages, severe economic woes and large scale social unrest come next. I just hope we don't take the rest of the world down with us when we finally give up the Imperial Ghost.

"History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up." -- Voltaire

 

[peacefan]

US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
.

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

You're guite salvagable as superpower that can be best trusted not to oppress others unnecessarily.
.

While I applaud your optimism, it appears that we've long forgotten the hobnail boots that got us to "superpower" status and are now fully comfortable in our silk slippers while we stroll down the path trodden by numerous other Empires on the back slope.

The instability of the American Political System is just a symptom of the final stages, severe economic woes and large scale social unrest come next. I just hope we don't take the rest of the world down with us when we finally give up the Imperial Ghost.

"History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up." -- Voltaire

there's hope this current gov shutdown will be the last one that stretches out as long as this one does.

the views i posted in this thread, are simple common sense.

if your government top leaders have become too self-interested to care for the rest of the nation, it is simply time to replace them at the very next elections where that is possible, and replace them with people who have demonstrated clear plans that a child could understand would clean up the mess in the country.

and hint, talking like i did in this thread, is part of that simple thinking that is obviously effective, and will thus attract many voters.

 

[debbiedowner]

Shutdowns do nothing about big government, they just make things worse because they cost more money, pay people for not working and harm the GDP which decreases tax revenue.

The fact you cheer for the shutdowns show you do not care about spending, you do not care about tax dollars being wasted. All you ever do is parrot stupid talking points.

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

wow.

that's a "reach" i see liberals make all the time to justify how *they* feel.

both big and small governments have a GDP and need to be strong for their base. correct? so you are making an issue where it isn't because of how you feel about someone.

very "liberal" of you. (if we're going to make unfounded generic accusations, that is)

Oh, so the amount of taxes being taken from Americans has nothing to do with the economy?

That's just brilliant.

The amount of taxes being taken from Americans has not changed during the shutdown you stupid fucking moron.

The issue is about who gives a shit that government workers are told to go get a real job, dufus.
And you are the cheerleader for bigger government.

Tell the defense departments family that was blown up in Syria yesterday he should have had a real job.

 

[NightFox]

US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
.

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

You're guite salvagable as superpower that can be best trusted not to oppress others unnecessarily.
.

While I applaud your optimism, it appears that we've long forgotten the hobnail boots that got us to "superpower" status and are now fully comfortable in our silk slippers while we stroll down the path trodden by numerous other Empires on the back slope.

The instability of the American Political System is just a symptom of the final stages, severe economic woes and large scale social unrest come next. I just hope we don't take the rest of the world down with us when we finally give up the Imperial Ghost.

"History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up." -- Voltaire

there's hope this current gov shutdown will be the last one that stretches out as long as this one does.

the views i posted in this thread, are simple common sense.

if your government top leaders have become too self-interested to care for the rest of the nation, it is simply time to replace them at the very next elections where that is possible, and replace them with people who have demonstrated clear plans that a child could understand would clean up the mess in the country.

and hint, talking like i did in this thread, is part of that simple thinking that is obviously effective, and will thus attract many voters.

I think you're missing the obvious, our "top government leaders" are a product of the growing mistrust that the citizenry has for the established order which has the effect of vaporizing what's commonly known as "moderate" (moderates are moderate because they have a significant degree of trust in the established order).

When the citizens don't trust their institutions they look for leaders that promise them ever more radical change, The effects of this attitude have been brought into sharp relief during the last two Administrations in the U.S., first Obama with his whole "hope and change" schtick (when actually he was pretty much just a steward of the status quo) and now with Trump and his whole "fuck the establishment" posture. The radicalization of both camps in the political crime family duo just leads to further escalation in the bitterness, infighting and distrust that already exists.

So I believe that the net result will be government "shut downs" will become even more common than they are now and grow longer in average length, which of course will lead to further unrest among the citizenry and ever increasing degrees of bitterness, lashing out and of course radicalization.

 

[Penelope]

also : you can't just allow anyone in ('open borders') - the rest of the world is too shitty in too many places for the US and their allies to take in all these people.
Some can be allowed to stay, some have to get sent back, and programs to create peace and prosperity in the regions that the refugees come from, also have to get set up.

also : a wall by itself is never going to keep out the drugs.
ever heard about the concept of a tunnel? or drugs deliveries by drone?
you'd need to build a wall that somehow scans underneath itself to detect a new tunnel being dug under it, and above it using radar to detect aircraft and drones of all sizes flying over it (even tiny ones, to cut off the drone-swarm drug-delivery method). And then ofcourse you're going to need cop types to deal with output from those sensors. good luck DARPA and other agencies.

Most drugs come in the Ports of entry , tunnels, water and air. The wall that exists, I think might need some expansion and fixing some areas, but we do not need a new one. Even many Republicans are against it.

 

[peacefan]

US gov workers do not deserve what they get during a shutdown,
the US populace does not deserve the risks to themselves that stack up as a shutdown prolongs,
.

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

You're guite salvagable as superpower that can be best trusted not to oppress others unnecessarily.
.

While I applaud your optimism, it appears that we've long forgotten the hobnail boots that got us to "superpower" status and are now fully comfortable in our silk slippers while we stroll down the path trodden by numerous other Empires on the back slope.

The instability of the American Political System is just a symptom of the final stages, severe economic woes and large scale social unrest come next. I just hope we don't take the rest of the world down with us when we finally give up the Imperial Ghost.

"History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up." -- Voltaire

there's hope this current gov shutdown will be the last one that stretches out as long as this one does.

the views i posted in this thread, are simple common sense.

if your government top leaders have become too self-interested to care for the rest of the nation, it is simply time to replace them at the very next elections where that is possible, and replace them with people who have demonstrated clear plans that a child could understand would clean up the mess in the country.

and hint, talking like i did in this thread, is part of that simple thinking that is obviously effective, and will thus attract many voters.

I think you're missing the obvious, our "top government leaders" are a product of the growing mistrust that the citizenry has for the established order which has the effect of vaporizing what's commonly known as "moderate" (moderates are moderate because they have a significant degree of trust in the established order).

When the citizens don't trust their institutions they look for leaders that promise them ever more radical change, The effects of this attitude have been brought into sharp relief during the last two Administrations in the U.S., first Obama with his whole "hope and change" schtick (when actually he was pretty much just a steward of the status quo) and now with Trump and his whole "fuck the establishment" posture. The radicalization of both camps in the political crime family duo just leads to further escalation in the bitterness, infighting and distrust that already exists.

So I believe that the net result will be government "shut downs" will become even more common than they are now and grow longer in average length, which of course will lead to further unrest among the citizenry and ever increasing degrees of bitterness, lashing out and of course radicalization.

You simply need to find your self a new set of top leaders, none of which are rich but all should come from professions like decorated military careers, doctors, bankers from morally responsible banks, etc, etc, etc.

then you need to feed these new leaders the solutions i mentioned earlier, and you could even use this forum to arrive at peer-reviewed, reasonably-supported-by-an-audience, solutions for the now many problems that plague your country.

and then these new leaders should be willing in a career path that might end them up in the job of being US president.

if you don't do this work, you'll be left in the care-not hands of the rich of your country. and more problems and shutdowns and maybe even a downfall from superpower status, all appear on the agenda.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You just claimed big government makes the economy stronger, dufus.

wow.

that's a "reach" i see liberals make all the time to justify how *they* feel.

both big and small governments have a GDP and need to be strong for their base. correct? so you are making an issue where it isn't because of how you feel about someone.

very "liberal" of you. (if we're going to make unfounded generic accusations, that is)

Oh, so the amount of taxes being taken from Americans has nothing to do with the economy?

That's just brilliant.

The amount of taxes being taken from Americans has not changed during the shutdown you stupid fucking moron.

The issue is about who gives a shit that government workers are told to go get a real job, dufus.
And you are the cheerleader for bigger government.

So, now you move from taxes to who cares about the government workers. Nice surrender.

The truth of the matter is that anyone that is not a mindless partisan sheep cares about them, they are just normal people wanting to earn a living for themselves and their family. They are not the devil

Yeah, we’ll file that under your constant posts about the plight of coal miners.

Which never occurred.

You only care about Big Government and how terrible it is for them to experience a work reduction.

And takes a very special dumbass to not know Government size equates to how much taxes Americans are forced to pay.

 

[NightFox]

Yes they do, we deserve the government we have because "we the people" have acted like clueless sheeple for decades and in our pettiness, tribalism, apathy and desire to be lied to have allowed it become what it is.

Enjoy the final act of FUBAR Theater America, you earned it.

You're guite salvagable as superpower that can be best trusted not to oppress others unnecessarily.
.

While I applaud your optimism, it appears that we've long forgotten the hobnail boots that got us to "superpower" status and are now fully comfortable in our silk slippers while we stroll down the path trodden by numerous other Empires on the back slope.

The instability of the American Political System is just a symptom of the final stages, severe economic woes and large scale social unrest come next. I just hope we don't take the rest of the world down with us when we finally give up the Imperial Ghost.

"History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up." -- Voltaire

there's hope this current gov shutdown will be the last one that stretches out as long as this one does.

the views i posted in this thread, are simple common sense.

if your government top leaders have become too self-interested to care for the rest of the nation, it is simply time to replace them at the very next elections where that is possible, and replace them with people who have demonstrated clear plans that a child could understand would clean up the mess in the country.

and hint, talking like i did in this thread, is part of that simple thinking that is obviously effective, and will thus attract many voters.

I think you're missing the obvious, our "top government leaders" are a product of the growing mistrust that the citizenry has for the established order which has the effect of vaporizing what's commonly known as "moderate" (moderates are moderate because they have a significant degree of trust in the established order).

When the citizens don't trust their institutions they look for leaders that promise them ever more radical change, The effects of this attitude have been brought into sharp relief during the last two Administrations in the U.S., first Obama with his whole "hope and change" schtick (when actually he was pretty much just a steward of the status quo) and now with Trump and his whole "fuck the establishment" posture. The radicalization of both camps in the political crime family duo just leads to further escalation in the bitterness, infighting and distrust that already exists.

So I believe that the net result will be government "shut downs" will become even more common than they are now and grow longer in average length, which of course will lead to further unrest among the citizenry and ever increasing degrees of bitterness, lashing out and of course radicalization.

You simply need to find your self a new set of top leaders, none of which are rich but all should come from professions like decorated military careers, doctors, bankers from morally responsible banks, etc, etc, etc.
.

That's one of the problems, given the pettiness, corruption and double dealing that infests our political system very few people that are competent, ethical and selfless are willing to run for office, so we're left with the incompetent, egomaniacal dregs that couldn't care less about the prosperity and liberty of the citizenry and just view them as sheep to be exploited.

The other problem is that the few worthy individuals that actually do manage to successfully navigate the mud slinging, lie fests that characterize our political campaigns are either completely corrupted by the system once they get there or are ostracized and marginalized if they resist being corrupted.

It's not the "leaders" per se that are the root of the problem, it's the SYSTEM which has, by virtue of exclusion and corruption, become nothing more than a club house for various flavors of oligarch and wanna be oligarchs.

The state of the system is completely the fault of the citizenry, we not only let it become what it is, we encouraged it to become what it is.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Yeah, we’ll file that under your constant posts about the plight of coal miners.

Which never occurred.

As soon as there is a thread on here bashing coal miners and calling them every name in the book I will be glad to jump to their defense.

You only care about Big Government and how terrible it is for them to experience a work reduction.

Actually I would like to see a reduction of 25% done over time. The shutdown is not a work reduction, it is a work delay. It cost more money than operating as normal.

And takes a very special dumbass to not know Government size equates to how much taxes Americans are forced to pay.

Good thing I knew that then. You on the other hand seem to think your taxes went down during the shutdown!

So, who does tie your shoes for you?