Gov Quin (I?) vs Gov Walker (WI)

[GHook93]

Gov. Quinn signs budget that cuts school funding - DailyHerald.com

Both faced HUGE deficits and the Democrats fought fixing it. Gov Walker of WI balanced the budget without firing any teachers, closing any schools or cutting programs. In fact by his making teacher pay some for their health insurance and pensions, he balanced the budget, hired teachers (one of the few in the country), added school programs, got schools hopelessly in the red to firmly in the black and he did this all without raising property, income, sales or corporate taxes.

Goto Quin. IL has a deficit that isn't fixed and is in fact growing, despite Quin raising income taxes (to a top five highest on the middle class in the country), corporate taxes (top 3), property (top 5) and sales (#1 in Cook county). IL raised all this and saw an even larger deficit. Chicago schools rank near the bottom in the country inb education, yet they haver a HUGE budget! However, 65% of it goes to retired teachers pension payments. Instead of tackling the pension problem,he cuts $500 mil in school programs. What they need to do is CUT OUT ALTOGETHER the highway robbery pension plans and make teachers pay the same amount for their healthcare that the private sector does. Then take the 65% that gets WASTED on bullshit the private sector doesn't get and use it to (1) Reduce teacher to student rations, (2) School programs and (3) Security!!!! But I digress. I rather hav e Gov Walker running the state!

 

[Mr. H.]

There are going to be massive layoffs of NON-TENURED teachers in this state. Class sizes will double, and... well you can figure the result.

I predict we'll also see early retirements of tenured faculty who will want out before the total collapse of the TRS.

 

[blimpo]

Gov. Quinn signs budget that cuts school funding - DailyHerald.com

Both faced HUGE deficits and the Democrats fought fixing it. Gov Walker of WI balanced the budget without firing any teachers, closing any schools or cutting programs. In fact by his making teacher pay some for their health insurance and pensions, he balanced the budget, hired teachers (one of the few in the country), added school programs, got schools hopelessly in the red to firmly in the black and he did this all without raising property, income, sales or corporate taxes.

Goto Quin. IL has a deficit that isn't fixed and is in fact growing, despite Quin raising income taxes (to a top five highest on the middle class in the country), corporate taxes (top 3), property (top 5) and sales (#1 in Cook county). IL raised all this and saw an even larger deficit. Chicago schools rank near the bottom in the country inb education, yet they haver a HUGE budget! However, 65% of it goes to retired teachers pension payments. Instead of tackling the pension problem,he cuts $500 mil in school programs. What they need to do is CUT OUT ALTOGETHER the highway robbery pension plans and make teachers pay the same amount for their healthcare that the private sector does. Then take the 65% that gets WASTED on bullshit the private sector doesn't get and use it to (1) Reduce teacher to student rations, (2) School programs and (3) Security!!!! But I digress. I rather hav e Gov Walker running the state!

For those that are retired, you can't change the rules after the game is played..

 

[GHook93]

There are going to be massive layoffs of NON-TENURED teachers in this state. Class sizes will double, and... well you can figure the result.

I predict we'll also see early retirements of tenured faculty who will want out before the total collapse of the TRS.

Always happens. The young, hungry and full of fresh knowledge teachers get the ax, when the burned out, no incentive to do better tenure teachers get to stay. Not saying all tenure teachers are bad (to the contrary some are the best), but the majority of professors I had in college that shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a student's mind were always tenure teachers (has nothing to do with their political philosophy, had to do with their lack of teaching style)!

 

[GHook93]

Gov. Quinn signs budget that cuts school funding - DailyHerald.com

Both faced HUGE deficits and the Democrats fought fixing it. Gov Walker of WI balanced the budget without firing any teachers, closing any schools or cutting programs. In fact by his making teacher pay some for their health insurance and pensions, he balanced the budget, hired teachers (one of the few in the country), added school programs, got schools hopelessly in the red to firmly in the black and he did this all without raising property, income, sales or corporate taxes.

Goto Quin. IL has a deficit that isn't fixed and is in fact growing, despite Quin raising income taxes (to a top five highest on the middle class in the country), corporate taxes (top 3), property (top 5) and sales (#1 in Cook county). IL raised all this and saw an even larger deficit. Chicago schools rank near the bottom in the country inb education, yet they haver a HUGE budget! However, 65% of it goes to retired teachers pension payments. Instead of tackling the pension problem,he cuts $500 mil in school programs. What they need to do is CUT OUT ALTOGETHER the highway robbery pension plans and make teachers pay the same amount for their healthcare that the private sector does. Then take the 65% that gets WASTED on bullshit the private sector doesn't get and use it to (1) Reduce teacher to student rations, (2) School programs and (3) Security!!!! But I digress. I rather hav e Gov Walker running the state!

For those that are retired, you can't change the rules after the game is played..

There are it in CA! I think you can change how they calculate the pension these teachers get. They take your last 3 years average and they raise it a certain percent to make up for inflation in order to inflate the pension!

It's sticky, but something needs to give!
My Plan:
(1) All new teachers are put in individual 401k/IRAs with an employer match (like the private sector),
(2) Teachers age 45 and under get a morph system, they get large 401(k) set up which would have equated to what they would have put in if they started at age 22 (plus a little) and then moves forward as a 401(k). Give them an extra bump to be certain.
(3) Teachers 45 to retirement age are set to a fair calculation rate, not the calculation rate that is used to line the pockets of the Union heads!
(4) Teachers currently in retirement remain unchanged.


Then get rid of tenure yesterday!

 

[blimpo]

Gov. Quinn signs budget that cuts school funding - DailyHerald.com

Both faced HUGE deficits and the Democrats fought fixing it. Gov Walker of WI balanced the budget without firing any teachers, closing any schools or cutting programs. In fact by his making teacher pay some for their health insurance and pensions, he balanced the budget, hired teachers (one of the few in the country), added school programs, got schools hopelessly in the red to firmly in the black and he did this all without raising property, income, sales or corporate taxes.

Goto Quin. IL has a deficit that isn't fixed and is in fact growing, despite Quin raising income taxes (to a top five highest on the middle class in the country), corporate taxes (top 3), property (top 5) and sales (#1 in Cook county). IL raised all this and saw an even larger deficit. Chicago schools rank near the bottom in the country inb education, yet they haver a HUGE budget! However, 65% of it goes to retired teachers pension payments. Instead of tackling the pension problem,he cuts $500 mil in school programs. What they need to do is CUT OUT ALTOGETHER the highway robbery pension plans and make teachers pay the same amount for their healthcare that the private sector does. Then take the 65% that gets WASTED on bullshit the private sector doesn't get and use it to (1) Reduce teacher to student rations, (2) School programs and (3) Security!!!! But I digress. I rather hav e Gov Walker running the state!

For those that are retired, you can't change the rules after the game is played..

There are it in CA! I think you can change how they calculate the pension these teachers get. They take your last 3 years average and they raise it a certain percent to make up for inflation in order to inflate the pension!

It's sticky, but something needs to give!
My Plan:
(1) All new teachers are put in individual 401k/IRAs with an employer match (like the private sector),
(2) Teachers age 45 and under get a morph system, they get large 401(k) set up which would have equated to what they would have put in if they started at age 22 (plus a little) and then moves forward as a 401(k). Give them an extra bump to be certain.
(3) Teachers 45 to retirement age are set to a fair calculation rate, not the calculation rate that is used to line the pockets of the Union heads!
(4) Teachers currently in retirement remain unchanged.


Then get rid of tenure yesterday!

People only argue one side of the tenure issue.

The other side is:

1. Sucking up to administration is at a minimum and allows teachers to teach in ways that they know work instead of jumping on the PC bandwagon every time a new method comes along. And believe me, there are thousands of former teachers out there trying to get rich SELLING the latest method. Tenure allows you to do your own evaluation and choose which is best for the kids you teach.

2. If Johnny earns an "F", Johnny gets an "F". Parent complaints over grades, if done properly are not issues. If Johnny's parents want him to earn an "A", both his parents and he should know what that will take. Without tenure a call from the "right" person might get you booted out the door no matter if you are right or wrong.

3. Many parents are known today for backing their kid against the teachers and schools when discipline is involved. They automatically take the kid's side without investigating the event. Rather than have complaints from parents, to keep their jobs, teachers might ignore discipline problems from kids with complaining parents. Being inconsistent with classroom discipline is one of the best ways to having a classroom that is out of control.
When a kid smirks that his parents will "have your job", it might not be an idle threat.

4. Tenure also means you can plan ahead, knowing you'll be back next year.

What was not publicized in the right to work issue was the true meaning as to what the right to work means:
It really means you have the "right" to be fired at any time (even for no reason) for any thing with your side of the story unheard.

When assigning grades and discipline tenure protects teachers so they can be consistant with grades and discipline, even though these decisions might not be popular at home.

 

[GHook93]

For those that are retired, you can't change the rules after the game is played..

There are it in CA! I think you can change how they calculate the pension these teachers get. They take your last 3 years average and they raise it a certain percent to make up for inflation in order to inflate the pension!

It's sticky, but something needs to give!
My Plan:
(1) All new teachers are put in individual 401k/IRAs with an employer match (like the private sector),
(2) Teachers age 45 and under get a morph system, they get large 401(k) set up which would have equated to what they would have put in if they started at age 22 (plus a little) and then moves forward as a 401(k). Give them an extra bump to be certain.
(3) Teachers 45 to retirement age are set to a fair calculation rate, not the calculation rate that is used to line the pockets of the Union heads!
(4) Teachers currently in retirement remain unchanged.


Then get rid of tenure yesterday!

People only argue one side of the tenure issue.

The other side is:

1. Sucking up to administration is at a minimum and allows teachers to teach in ways that they know work instead of jumping on the PC bandwagon every time a new method comes along. And believe me, there are thousands of former teachers out there trying to get rich SELLING the latest method. Tenure allows you to do your own evaluation and choose which is best for the kids you teach.

2. If Johnny earns an "F", Johnny gets an "F". Parent complaints over grades, if done properly are not issues. If Johnny's parents want him to earn an "A", both his parents and he should know what that will take. Without tenure a call from the "right" person might get you booted out the door no matter if you are right or wrong.

3. Many parents are known today for backing their kid against the teachers and schools when discipline is involved. They automatically take the kid's side without investigating the event. Rather than have complaints from parents, to keep their jobs, teachers might ignore discipline problems from kids with complaining parents. Being inconsistent with classroom discipline is one of the best ways to having a classroom that is out of control.
When a kid smirks that his parents will "have your job", it might not be an idle threat.

4. Tenure also means you can plan ahead, knowing you'll be back next year.

What was not publicized in the right to work issue was the true meaning as to what the right to work means:
It really means you have the "right" to be fired at any time (even for no reason) for any thing with your side of the story unheard.

When assigning grades and discipline tenure protects teachers so they can be consistant with grades and discipline, even though these decisions might not be popular at home.

Same arguments can be made for any job! Why should there jobs be protected in ways the kills incentive and my shouldn't?

The benefits of tenure are FAR FAR outweighed by benefits of going at-will!