Gorging At The Public Trough

[Madeline]

By squirreling away hundreds of hours of unused holiday, vacation and sick days, more than 900 Cincinnati employees - nearly one in five - may receive at least six months' extra pay when they retire, costing taxpayers more than $93 million.

A total of 120 of them can look forward to at least a year's extra salary upon retirement thanks to contract provisions that make it relatively easy for workers to accumulate and cash in huge amounts of unused leave, an Enquirer analysis of city records shows.

The City Council-approved contracts include benefits that, among other things, permit manyworkers to draw 13 sick days a year, grant three weeks' worth of compensatory time to public safety employees for holidays whether they work them or not, and entitle veteran police officers to nearly 10½ weeks of various leaves annually.

City to pay out $93M to retirees | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

I urge you to read the entire article; your head may explode, though. Be forewarned.

"These benefits are a form of deferred compensation for the employees," [said Marianne Steger, director of health care and public policy for AFSCME Ohio Council 8] said. "At some point, that has to come back to them."

O really? Do you squirel away sick and comp time at your job so you can get paid an additional year's worth of salary when you retire? Do you expect the sick leave you earn at $10 an hour to be paid in 20 or 30 years at $60 an hour? Or that you can "fluff up" your pension benefit payout by manipulating the "highest three years" calculation?

Almost $100 Million is now owed by the city of Cinncinnati to its retiring employees....and it had $50 Million + shortfalls in each of the past two years. I may not be a math whiz, but aren't we saying that if these abuses did not occur, Cincinnati could balance its budget?

"It's absolutely indefensible and offensive to taxpayers," said City Councilman Jeff Berding, who has repeatedly pressed for the city to take a harder line in contract talks. "It violates every standard of economic common sense and shows complete disregard for the city. People who just watched us struggle to try to cut $54 million from the budget have every right to look at this and be outraged."

What say you?

 

[Oddball]

I say bookmark this one for the next time liberoidals piss and moan about cops, firemen and teachers getting hosed over by budget cuts.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I say bookmark this one for the next time liberoidals piss and moan about cops, firemen and teachers getting hosed over by budget cuts.

Another glib comment based on bias and ignorance.
Budget cuts hurt communities, long tenured cops and firefighters, and teachers, don't get "hosed". Younger employees lose their jobs; classes get larger, time to respond to 911 calls increases as less first responders are on the streets and firehouses close.

Yes, safety retirement is a great benefit. Which is why so many remain on a job which is a thrill a minute. Hours of boredom dealing with drunks and other miscreants and seconds of terror which must be faced professionally and without allowing ones emotions to intrude.

 

[Oddball]

My comment is based upon the bullshit practice of bureaucrats sandbagging sick and vacation days and taking away a huge payday.

Few in the real world get to do so.

Pretty lame hijack attempt, Vermin.

 

[del]

I say bookmark this one for the next time liberoidals piss and moan about cops, firemen and teachers getting hosed over by budget cuts.

Another glib comment based on bias and ignorance.
Budget cuts hurt communities, long tenured cops and firefighters, and teachers, don't get "hosed". Younger employees lose their jobs; classes get larger, time to respond to 911 calls increases as less first responders are on the streets and firehouses close.

Yes, safety retirement is a great benefit. Which is why so many remain on a job which is a thrill a minute. Hours of boredom dealing with drunks and other miscreants and seconds of terror which must be faced professionally and without allowing ones emotions to intrude.

when it comes to glib comments based on ignorance and bias, there's no doubt you know whereof you speak.

every job i've ever held came with sick time, vacation time and personal time that was on a use it or lose it basis.

tell me again why it should be different for public employees? i'm sure you can gin up an adequate, glib, ignorant justification for me.

thanks

 

[Wry Catcher]

My comment is based upon the bullshit practice of bureaucrats sandbagging sick and vacation days and taking away a huge payday.

Few in the real world get to do so.

Pretty lame hijack attempt, Vermin.

Few in the 'real world' have the ability to pass our tests, physical, psychological and background to qualify for safety jobs. Of those who do many fail to get through the year or sometimes more of probation.
Your use of "sandbagging" is curious. No bullshit or lies are needed to take advantage of benefits provided. Benefits are provided because agencies, cities, counties and states recognized the principle of supply and demand. Cops and firefighters are needed, and unless high standards and careful hiring practices are employed the agency, city, county or state taxpayers are at risk. The killing of Oscar Grant by BART police on New Years 2009 cost the agency & taxpayers millions of dollars.
Almost anyone can pound a nail, measure twice and cut once, or paint a wall. Sure, mistakes are made, but few mistakes in those tasks result in multi-million dollar costs. Misuse a gun when a less than lethal tool is needed and the consequences are much greater.

 

[Oddball]

Blablablablabla.

None of that chest puffing refutes the fact that next to nobody who works out in the real world gets to sandbag their sick and vacation days for cash. Your petty opinion that "anyone can pound a nail" is completely irrelevant.

But an overinflated sense of entitlement is pretty much expected from liberoidals and AFSCME paper shuffler types, so I'm hardly surprised.

 

[uscitizen]

So we punish those who do save up their vacations and such for when they retire?

 

[westwall]

My comment is based upon the bullshit practice of bureaucrats sandbagging sick and vacation days and taking away a huge payday.

Few in the real world get to do so.

Pretty lame hijack attempt, Vermin.

Few in the 'real world' have the ability to pass our tests, physical, psychological and background to qualify for safety jobs. Of those who do many fail to get through the year or sometimes more of probation.
Your use of "sandbagging" is curious. No bullshit or lies are needed to take advantage of benefits provided. Benefits are provided because agencies, cities, counties and states recognized the principle of supply and demand. Cops and firefighters are needed, and unless high standards and careful hiring practices are employed the agency, city, county or state taxpayers are at risk. The killing of Oscar Grant by BART police on New Years 2009 cost the agency & taxpayers millions of dollars.
Almost anyone can pound a nail, measure twice and cut once, or paint a wall. Sure, mistakes are made, but few mistakes in those tasks result in multi-million dollar costs. Misuse a gun when a less than lethal tool is needed and the consequences are much greater.

I can add a little to this conversation knowing many people in LE in the bay area. BART as a police organization is universally reviled by all the other agencies in the bay area. Their level of training is pathetic, they never really go into the line of fire per se, because if ever there is trouble they will allways call the agency in the area where the trouble is occuring for backup then hand off the investigation to that agency. One friend of mine had a BART Sgt do a ride along and found out that the sgt had never done a felony stop in his entire career! And for all of their inability to do a good job they are among the most handsomly paid employees out there with a starting base pay of 100,000. That number is from around ten years ago so it has almost assuredly gone up from there.

This for officers who are not capable of doing real law enforcement work. Police officers in general I have no problem with though saving up vacation etc. is wrong. As is the CA practice of them having to pay very little into their PERS accounts. The taxpayers pay forever into that for them and it is killing the state.


Now lets get into Firefighters, they are among the most well paid for what they do in the world. They work 24 hours then get three days off. There is a well known saying that if you're looking for someone in the trades go to a fire station as they ALL have second jobs in the trades except for the Lt's and Chiefs etc. That is very true here as well. So the taxpayers foot their entire retirement and only actually use them 5% of the time. Paramedics on the other hand are used all of the time but get nowhere near the compensation that firefighters do.

And really, the tests are not that hard, my wife has generated many tests for fire and LE organizations so if you think that you are exceptional because you passed one of those you are a very sad individual.

 

[boedicca]

This is frightfully common in most states, counties and municipalities. A properly run organization caps vacation accruals at a few weeks (4 or 6 weeks are quite common) in a use it or lose it arrangement.

There is no way these "public servants" took no vacations and accrued these levels. They took the vacations and then colluded with their supervisors not to report it so they could all gouge the taxpayers with an excessive parting gift payout when they retire.

 

[boedicca]

My comment is based upon the bullshit practice of bureaucrats sandbagging sick and vacation days and taking away a huge payday.

Few in the real world get to do so.

Pretty lame hijack attempt, Vermin.

Few in the 'real world' have the ability to pass our tests, physical, psychological and background to qualify for safety jobs. Of those who do many fail to get through the year or sometimes more of probation.
Your use of "sandbagging" is curious. No bullshit or lies are needed to take advantage of benefits provided. Benefits are provided because agencies, cities, counties and states recognized the principle of supply and demand. Cops and firefighters are needed, and unless high standards and careful hiring practices are employed the agency, city, county or state taxpayers are at risk. The killing of Oscar Grant by BART police on New Years 2009 cost the agency & taxpayers millions of dollars.
Almost anyone can pound a nail, measure twice and cut once, or paint a wall. Sure, mistakes are made, but few mistakes in those tasks result in multi-million dollar costs. Misuse a gun when a less than lethal tool is needed and the consequences are much greater.

I can add a little to this conversation knowing many people in LE in the bay area. BART as a police organization is universally reviled by all the other agencies in the bay area. Their level of training is pathetic, they never really go into the line of fire per se, because if ever there is trouble they will allways call the agency in the area where the trouble is occuring for backup then hand off the investigation to that agency. One friend of mine had a BART Sgt do a ride along and found out that the sgt had never done a felony stop in his entire career! And for all of their inability to do a good job they are among the most handsomly paid employees out there with a starting base pay of 100,000. That number is from around ten years ago so it has almost assuredly gone up from there.

This for officers who are not capable of doing real law enforcement work. Police officers ingeneral I have no problem with though saving up vacation etc. is wrong. As is the CA practice of them having to pay very little into their PERS accounts. The taxpayers pay forever into that for them and it is killing the state.


Now lets get into Firefighters, they are among the most well paid for what they do in the world. They work 24 hours then get three days off. There is a well known saying that if you're looking for someone in the trades go to a fire station as they ALL have second jobs in the trades except for the ALt's and Chiefs etc. That is very true here as well. So the taxpayers foot their entire retirement and only actually use them 5% of the time. Paramedics on the other hand are used all of the time but get nowhere near the compensation that firefighters do.

And really, the tests are not that hard, my wife has generated many tests for fire and LE organizations so if you think that you are exceptional because you passed one of those you are a very sad individual.

BART also has the highest paid police force in the entire state of CA - and that is really saying something about abusive collusion between unions and our elected representatives.

 

[boedicca]

So we punish those who do save up their vacations and such for when they retire?

No. We're disgusted with those who call in sick and take time off, while abusing the lack of a cap on their vacation accruals.

 

[Oddball]

So we punish those who do save up their vacations and such for when they retire?

It's not punishing jack shit.

Use it or lose it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

By squirreling away hundreds of hours of unused holiday, vacation and sick days, more than 900 Cincinnati employees - nearly one in five - may receive at least six months' extra pay when they retire, costing taxpayers more than $93 million.

A total of 120 of them can look forward to at least a year's extra salary upon retirement thanks to contract provisions that make it relatively easy for workers to accumulate and cash in huge amounts of unused leave, an Enquirer analysis of city records shows.

The City Council-approved contracts include benefits that, among other things, permit manyworkers to draw 13 sick days a year, grant three weeks' worth of compensatory time to public safety employees for holidays whether they work them or not, and entitle veteran police officers to nearly 10½ weeks of various leaves annually.

City to pay out $93M to retirees | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

I urge you to read the entire article; your head may explode, though. Be forewarned.

"These benefits are a form of deferred compensation for the employees," [said Marianne Steger, director of health care and public policy for AFSCME Ohio Council 8] said. "At some point, that has to come back to them."

O really? Do you squirel away sick and comp time at your job so you can get paid an additional year's worth of salary when you retire? Do you expect the sick leave you earn at $10 an hour to be paid in 20 or 30 years at $60 an hour? Or that you can "fluff up" your pension benefit payout by manipulating the "highest three years" calculation?

Almost $100 Million is now owed by the city of Cinncinnati to its retiring employees....and it had $50 Million + shortfalls in each of the past two years. I may not be a math whiz, but aren't we saying that if these abuses did not occur, Cincinnati could balance its budget?

"It's absolutely indefensible and offensive to taxpayers," said City Councilman Jeff Berding, who has repeatedly pressed for the city to take a harder line in contract talks. "It violates every standard of economic common sense and shows complete disregard for the city. People who just watched us struggle to try to cut $54 million from the budget have every right to look at this and be outraged."

What say you?

Remeber all those times you supported the local unions w/o actually knowing what they were going to strike for?

remeber all the times you "stuck it to the Man"?

Well now it's come back around. You, your state and your country are all now suffering the consequinces of blindly supporting unions.

And it won't stop. It will get worse and worse.

 

[boedicca]

This is yet another example of how our Public Servants have pay and benefits which far exceed those of the poor shlubs in the private sector who foot the bills.

 

[uscitizen]

So we punish those who do save up their vacations and such for when they retire?

It's not punishing jack shit.

Use it or lose it.

Was that the rules there?

Your rules do not rule.

If they played by the rules, debts must be paid.

 

[boedicca]

It's what properly managed businesses that comply with the GAAP accounting rules from which Government Exempts Itself have been doing for decades.

 

[Two Thumbs]

This is yet another example of how our Public Servants have pay and benefits which far exceed those of the poor shlubs in the private sector who foot the bills.

And if the shlubs dare to right this wrong, the "Public Servants" will strike, the dems and the media will back them and they will end up getting even more.

And people laugh when I mention the Cloward - Piven stratagy.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So we punish those who do save up their vacations and such for when they retire?

It's not punishing jack shit.

Use it or lose it.

Was that the rules there?

Your rules do not rule.

If they played by the rules, debts must be paid.

Absolutly. Even if it means the ruin of the city, state or country.

 

[xsited1]

Most of the government in Little Rock was shut down 2 days last week because of the snow. The State workers still got paid even though they didn't work. They did not lose any sick or vacation time.