GopJeff and the Person(s) in the Trinity

[ajwps]

Okay give me a short brief idea of what one 'person' in the trinity is in 3 persons?

To repeat the questions....

1) I would appreciate your defintion of a 'person' being a god?

What are the 'three person' god personalities in which you worship?

2) Does one person of the one god in three persons get mad or jealous of one another?

3) If not then why does one person of your god pray to another person of your god when he lived on earth?

The questions are endless and the confusion gets worse.

Without a doubt, the divine Father is God. In Ephesians 1:17 Paul prays to “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,” who is the “one God and Father of the other two persons” ????

(Eph. 4:6). The Bible also reveals that the Son is God. Addressing the Son, Hebrews 1:8 states, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.”????

Define a god 'perons' fpr me...

 

[5stringJeff]

AJ, To answer your question succintly, Christians believe that there is one God that exists in three distinct Persons: the Father (called Elohim, Yahweh, Adonai, etc. in the OT), the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit. No, they do not get jealous of each other. Why did Jesus pray to God the Father? When you pray, you are talking to God. I don't know why Jesus wouldn't talk to God. since they existed from the beginning of time.

The Trinity is not an easy subject to grasp or explain, and I certainly am not going to do a great job at it, so I will instead direct you here, where someone has already explained it better than I could:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity.html (a good overview)
http://www.kencollins.com/question-18.htm (a kind of humorous modern-day illustration)
http://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=508 (Billy Graham is the man!)

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by gop_jeff

AJ, To answer your question succintly, Christians believe that there is one God that exists in three distinct Persons: the Father (called Elohim, Yahweh, Adonai, etc. in the OT), the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit.

So the One G-d has many names as seen in the OT but also exists as three distinct separate unit persons in the newer NT Bible. Could there be another person in the god unit such as Mary, mother of Jesus?

No, they do not get jealous of each other.

Why can't they get jealous of one another? Didn't Jesus plead with his other person on the cross so why not get upset or jealous with his other person?

Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Why did Jesus pray to God the Father? When you pray, you are talking to God. I don't know why Jesus wouldn't talk to God. since they existed from the beginning of time.

I pray to my G-d but I am not Him. If you don't know why Jesus shouldn't or woundn't talk to G-d the Father (his alter person) then who would know the answer to this riddle?

The Trinity is not an easy subject to grasp or explain, and I certainly am not going to do a great job at it, so I will instead direct you here, where someone has already explained it better than I could:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity.html (a good overview)
http://www.kencollins.com/question-18.htm (a kind of humorous modern-day illustration)
http://www.billygraham.org/qna/qna.asp?i=508 (Billy Graham is the man!)

Sorry but your other sites do not explain any specific reason for there to be three separate 'persons' in One G-d with no other gods before Him.

Even your first site admits the same in the very first answer to the trinity concept.

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain.

I guess this three separate person god is really a matter of faith and has no good rational answer to this mystery.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

ajwps. Tell us more about the covenant the jews made with god about slicing their foreskins off. Is that logical? SO are you saying god looks at your penis when you pray? How can he do that? Does he have x-ray vision? Please.

What a silly religion you Jews have.

 

[dmp]

for what it's worth, if you look closely, his screen name is gop_jeff...

 

[Shazbot]

Here's my take on the Trinity...

First, each member is a completely separate entity, composing the Godhead. Jesus constantly declared how He and His Father are one. This concept is clarified in John 17, as Jesus prays to the Father before the atonement. He states his desire that his disciples might be one, as He and His Father are one. This isn't to say that he wanted every follower of Christ to meld together into a blob of goodness. Rather, to be one is to be united in desire, work, purpose, and glory. For that very reason, the members of the Godhead cannot fight or be jealous of each other - because they are united in all things.

Think of the Godhead as a presidency. God the Father is president of the universe. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are his two assistants, or vice presidents, or counsellors, or however you want to call them. Clearly, there is only one President. That President, however, does have the power to delegate responsibilities and functions. Thus, Jesus Christ came down to be our Savior. By the same token, it is through the Holy Spirit that our prayers are answered.

-Douglas

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Shazbot
Here's my take on the Trinity...

First, each member is a completely separate entity, composing the Godhead. Jesus constantly declared how He and His Father are one. This concept is clarified in John 17, as Jesus prays to the Father before the atonement. He states his desire that his disciples might be one, as He and His Father are one. This isn't to say that he wanted every follower of Christ to meld together into a blob of goodness. Rather, to be one is to be united in desire, work, purpose, and glory. For that very reason, the members of the Godhead cannot fight or be jealous of each other - because they are united in all things.

True, Christ did pray for unity among His believers. However, it is not correct to state that the three members of the Trinity are three separate entities. They are separate in personage, but not in entity. There is only one God, as both the OT and NT proclaim.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by ajwps
So the One G-d has many names as seen in the OT but also exists as three distinct separate unit persons in the newer NT Bible. Could there be another person in the god unit such as Mary, mother of Jesus?

No, Mary is never mentioned as part of the Godhead. This is part of a Catholic teaching (that is, frankly, heretical in my book) that assigns Mary as a fourth member of the Trinity.

Why can't they get jealous of one another? Didn't Jesus plead with his other person on the cross so why not get upset or jealous with his other person?

I have no idea what you are asking, really. But I do know that Jesus is sinless, just as God the Father is, so I don't know why he would get jealous in that sense.

Sorry but your other sites do not explain any specific reason for there to be three separate 'persons' in One G-d with no other gods before Him.

Even your first site admits the same in the very first answer to the trinity concept.

I never said that the Trinity was easy to explain - in fact, that's why I posted the links. I see clearly, by reading through the Bible, that God is manifest in three persons, but He constitutes only one God. So are you asking why God is like that? You'll have to ask God for the answer.

 

[Shazbot]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
They are separate in personage, but not in personage.

What?

Originally posted by gop_jeff
There is only one God, as both the OT and NT proclaim.

I don't think I violated this concept. I don't pray to Jesus Christ - I pray to the Father, who is my God.

-Douglas

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Shazbot
What?

I don't think I violated this concept. I don't pray to Jesus Christ - I pray to the Father, who is my God.

-Douglas

Sorry... I changed that. Should have been "not separate in entity."

Is there a command that states that you are only supposed to pray to the Father, and not to Christ?

 

[Shazbot]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Is there a command that states that you are only supposed to pray to the Father, and not to Christ?

Matt 6:6 - "...pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

John 4:23 - "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

John 15:16 - "...that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

Rom 15:6 - "That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

I know of no "thou shalt" commandment to pray only to the Father. However, in reading the Bible, I find that apart from Christ's sacrifice for our sins, one of His principal missions was to show us the example of true worship. He taught us how to live our lives according to His gospel. I have found no occurance whatsoever that anyone was taught to pray to Jesus. At least, that is what I can gather.

-Douglas

 

[Yurt]

Just some thoughts...



John 10
30 I and my Father are one.


John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.


John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

[seems that he and his father are one]

John 14
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

[here seems to indicate that he keeps his father's commandments, yet also says they are "his" commandments. It does seem mildly incongruent, unless one believes as He has said, that I am in the Father and the Father in me, when they asked to see the father.]

Just some thoughts...

 

[NewGuy]

I find it funny people CANNOT understand the Trinity.

In an apple, you have the seed, the stem, and the fruit.

Each has a different function, each is distinct in its part.

Each is independant of the other.

-Yet each is part of the whole.

The fruit fathers the seed.

The seed is part of the fruit and yet IS the fruit.

The stem is the fruit but is the reason it all is able to grow as a whole. -It is a helper of sorts which connects the line of nourishment between the fruit and the seed.

The stem can be referred to as the helper.

The fruit can be the father.

The seed can be Jesus.

What is so hard about this?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr

ajwps. Tell us more about the covenant the jews made with god about slicing their foreskins off. Is that logical? SO are you saying god looks at your penis when you pray? How can he do that? Does he have x-ray vision? Please.

What a silly religion you Jews have.

Why does the Gospel include this silly religion in the first section of the Gospels rtwing?

Why does it appear that circumscision is not to prevent potential cancer from the smegma remaining at the end of the uncircumscised penis. But more like a sign to all men that G-d has commanded that males on the eighth day after their birth, the rite of circumscion be made as a sign of G-d's will.

Maybe that is what the murderers like the Nazi's did to find the Jews among the gentiles, whose people look like the rest of the German people, to place them in the gas chambers to their death.

You are truly a ancephalic....

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by -=d=-

for what it's worth, if you look closely, his screen name is gop_jeff...

For what its worth, there is as much difference between GopJeff, rghtwngavenger and =d= as there is among a group of peas in a pod.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Shazbot

Here's my take on the Trinity......Think of the Godhead as a presidency. God the Father is president of the universe. Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are his two assistants, or vice presidents, or counsellors, or however you want to call them. Clearly, there is only one President. That President, however, does have the power to delegate responsibilities and functions. Thus, Jesus Christ came down to be our Savior. By the same token, it is through the Holy Spirit that our prayers are answered.


Let's count the trinity in your description. We have the president (ONE), then Jesus Christ -assistant (TWO) and finally the Holy Spirit (Three).

Then you have one, two and three gods who are one but some are assistants and not as good as the first god but the third god impregnated a betrothed earth woman. I think the SECOND one was the offspring of the third assistant and the FIRST got jealous because the THIRD got to have a little party going with an earth lady who had taken a drug that made her forget that taking of her to make the SECOND...

I have lost count.....

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by gop_jeff

True, Christ did pray for unity among His believers. However, it is not correct to state that the three members of the Trinity are three separate entities. They are separate in personage, but not in entity. There is only one God, as both the OT and NT proclaim.

SEPARATE in 'personage but noy in entity is your final answer?

Where in the Old Testament (Torah) is their more than ONE jealous Creator who abhors any other foreign gods that man made with his own hands. Out of wood and stone man made them....

What the hell is a personage or person god?

 

[dilloduck]

hello again AJ---are you for wiping out all Christians as well as all Muslims ?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by gop_jeff

So are you asking why God is like that? You'll have to ask God for the answer. [/B]

Since Paul made it impossible for any to understand the concept of a trinity of gods, then it may not be I that has to answer to the Creator about believing in those who Jesus claimed would come along and say that they are a god.

I have no idea what you are asking, really. But I do know that Jesus is sinless, just as God the Father is, so I don't know why he would get jealous in that sense.

You have a very clear understanding of a god praying to himself on the cross.

How do you know that Jesus was sinless? Who told you or what signed certificate have you testifying to this fact?

G-d said that He created SIN and GOOD.

Ergo, any claim of a sinless G-d is without any basis.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
hello again AJ---are you for wiping out all Christians as well as all Muslims ?

He still can't touch me.