GOP wants to end middle class tax break.

[PoliticalChic]

The NYT is a forecast of future benefits. You said that most of the tax cuts "went to" the lower and middle income distributions. That is the past. And that is incorrect.

Top 1% received 15% of the tax cuts. Those making over $1 million received 24% of the tax cuts. Those in the middle 20% received 9% of the tax cuts.

Tax Returns: A Comprehensive Assessment of the Bush Administration's Record on Cutting Taxes — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

While one of the 'rich' would certainly receive more than one of the less than rich...

the Times article clearly points out that the bulk of the Bush tax cuts are not in the group of 'rich.'

The anlysis you use is produced by folks from the Kennedy School and the Woodrow Wilson School.
So...which source is more Left-wing...Center on Budget and Policy Priorities or NYTimes?

I do not criticize studies that come from the American Enterprise Institute or the Heritage Foundation simply because of the source. Those are reputable organizations despite their ideological leanings, as is the CBPP. The analyses of the distribution of tax cut benefits comes from multiple sources. The NYT references forecasted future benefits. If you have another source that has analyzed the distribution of past benefits from the Bush tax cuts, please post it because I would like to see it. But projected costs do not approximate past benefits.

Sorry, Toro.
"I do not criticize studies that come from..."

My fault. Not written in the way I meant it.
No, I don't criticize the source, I hope, but the content when appropriate.

No, my point was that both our sources were left leaning, so it wasn't a right wing source that I was using to support my premise.

What I would hope is that you would give your explanation of the NYTimes clearly identifying the elimination of the Bush cuts as only providing 18.42% of the revenue is it were rolled back on the "millionaires" alone.

Seems prettty clear as to whom the bulk of the cuts went.
No?

 

[Toro]

While one of the 'rich' would certainly receive more than one of the less than rich...

the Times article clearly points out that the bulk of the Bush tax cuts are not in the group of 'rich.'

The anlysis you use is produced by folks from the Kennedy School and the Woodrow Wilson School.
So...which source is more Left-wing...Center on Budget and Policy Priorities or NYTimes?

I do not criticize studies that come from the American Enterprise Institute or the Heritage Foundation simply because of the source. Those are reputable organizations despite their ideological leanings, as is the CBPP. The analyses of the distribution of tax cut benefits comes from multiple sources. The NYT references forecasted future benefits. If you have another source that has analyzed the distribution of past benefits from the Bush tax cuts, please post it because I would like to see it. But projected costs do not approximate past benefits.

Sorry, Toro.
"I do not criticize studies that come from..."

My fault. Not written in the way I meant it.
No, I don't criticize the source, I hope, but the content when appropriate.

No, my point was that both our sources were left leaning, so it wasn't a right wing source that I was using to support my premise.

What I would hope is that you would give your explanation of the NYTimes clearly identifying the elimination of the Bush cuts as only providing 18.42% of the revenue is it were rolled back on the "millionaires" alone.

Seems prettty clear as to whom the bulk of the cuts went.
No?

I don't know how the NYT came up with that number. Or should I say, I don't know how the firm that forecasted that number came to that conclusion. Forecasts make assumptions that may or may not come true, such as the rate of growth, the distribution of growth, etc. Models that estimate ex post are based on the data from events that have already occurred, and we can get a fairly reasonable estimation of what has happened in the past. That does not mean the NYT is necessarily incorrect. It may be that the majority of future benefits will accrue to the middle and lower classes. But that's not what happened during the past decade.

 

[highway234]

...this will increase the deficit, but the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't? What a bunch of HYPCRITES!

OH BOY! NAME CALLING FOOD FIGHT!!!!

Of course anyone actually looking at the the issue sees that what's actually going on is Obama trying to slash Social Security funding --that's got nothing to do with the deficit. But hey, if Marxists ever bothered with the truth here this place would be Boredom City.

this is a bit off topic, but how come the biggest obama haters are always coming up with caricatures that make him look awesome?

 

[Bern80]

All the Bush tax cuts should expire.

And the government should insert another stimulus project.

And create jobs with said stimulus project.

But sadly, none of this will happen.

Bulletin: Ravi Reestablishes Liberal Credentials.

(Yawn......)

Thanks for admitting that Liberal equals Rational.

Maybe there is hope for you.

Technically Ravi you're the definition of insane. It's the insane that expect doing the same thing will yield different results. It's you liberals whos only solution is essentially that government needs more money. Well that's what government has been getting, and yet things are worse. And your answer to that is it just can't be that government is just pain bad at doing all this stuff, the answer is government STILL doesn't have enough money. You are the one that might need to consider some objective rational thought.

 

[oracle]

GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - Yahoo! News

They are now becoming brazen. They are not even trying to hide their efforts to screw the middle class and pad the pockets of the rich. The come up with lame excuses. Then the FOX sheep buy everything, hook, line, and sinker.

How can these people keep screwing over middle America, and getting away with it!

But Republican lawmakers haven't always worried about tax cuts increasing the deficit. They led the fight to extend the life of a much bigger tax break: the major 2001 income tax reduction enacted under Bush. It was scheduled to expire at the start of this year. Obama campaigned on a pledge to end the tax break only for the richest Americans, but solid GOP opposition forced him to back down.

So, this will increase the deficit, but the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't? What a bunch of HYPCRITES!

They don't buy it, they perpetrate it.

 

[Ravi]

Bulletin: Ravi Reestablishes Liberal Credentials.

(Yawn......)

Thanks for admitting that Liberal equals Rational.

Maybe there is hope for you.

Technically Ravi you're the definition of insane. It's the insane that expect doing the same thing will yield different results. It's you liberals whos only solution is essentially that government needs more money. Well that's what government has been getting, and yet things are worse. And your answer to that is it just can't be that government is just pain bad at doing all this stuff, the answer is government STILL doesn't have enough money. You are the one that might need to consider some objective rational thought.

Uh, no, that isn't my prescription most of the time. It is this time simply because unless the government steps in and helps with the economic situation, we are going to be hurting as a country for a very long time. Maybe forever.

 

[ShackledNation]

Thanks for admitting that Liberal equals Rational.

Maybe there is hope for you.

Technically Ravi you're the definition of insane. It's the insane that expect doing the same thing will yield different results. It's you liberals whos only solution is essentially that government needs more money. Well that's what government has been getting, and yet things are worse. And your answer to that is it just can't be that government is just pain bad at doing all this stuff, the answer is government STILL doesn't have enough money. You are the one that might need to consider some objective rational thought.

Uh, no, that isn't my prescription most of the time. It is this time simply because unless the government steps in and helps with the economic situation, we are going to be hurting as a country for a very long time. Maybe forever.

You are describing what is currently happening precisely because government has been stepping in. Unless government leaves the economy alone, we are going to be hurting as a country for a very long time. Maybe forever.

 

[Bern80]

Thanks for admitting that Liberal equals Rational.

Maybe there is hope for you.

Technically Ravi you're the definition of insane. It's the insane that expect doing the same thing will yield different results. It's you liberals whos only solution is essentially that government needs more money. Well that's what government has been getting, and yet things are worse. And your answer to that is it just can't be that government is just pain bad at doing all this stuff, the answer is government STILL doesn't have enough money. You are the one that might need to consider some objective rational thought.

Uh, no, that isn't my prescription most of the time. It is this time simply because unless the government steps in and helps with the economic situation, we are going to be hurting as a country for a very long time. Maybe forever.

I know it has become a right wing cliche but at some point you really do need to critically and objectively entertain the notion that government IS the problem, not the solution. The only thing government ought to be doing is making it easier for the private sector to do business by lowering and/or simplifying the tax code and major deregulation. There is no other way to explain it then to say the entity trying to fix the problem IS the problem.

 

[flacaltenn]

GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - Yahoo! News

They are now becoming brazen. They are not even trying to hide their efforts to screw the middle class and pad the pockets of the rich. The come up with lame excuses. Then the FOX sheep buy everything, hook, line, and sinker.

How can these people keep screwing over middle America, and getting away with it!



So, this will increase the deficit, but the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't? What a bunch of HYPCRITES!

"...tax break only for the richest Americans..."

Jimmy....

....did you know that almost all of the Bush tax cuts went to middle and lower income folks?
Did you know that?

And, did you know that President Bush belonged to the G-O-P???

Liar. 52% when to the top.

Cat got your tongue?? Had to salt the french fries?

"52% when (sp) to the top." -- TOP WHAT Genius??

According to Toro's graphic -- 55% or so went to folks making BELOW 250K. That's not bad considering that folks below $50K pay next to nothing in the first place. (Don't blame me TORO -- that's the DEM definition of the EVIL rich)

And I have no doubt that PChick is also right with the slightly different allocation she found when the NY Times wanted to REVERSE the tax cut process.. But probably the diff there is due to assumptions about whether the CAPITAL GAINS would ALSO change or not (or some dam assumption in fine print)..

POINT IS --- as far as the OP goes -- the VAST MAJORITY of Bush Tax relief went right to the MIDDLE CLASS. Because the poor don't get income tax breaks and there's not enough "rich" to overwhelm the size of the middle class. The income range from $80K to $250K is the "sweet spot" with the most population and income to matter..

 

[Brutus]

the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't?

what huge tax breaks?? the top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes? the bottom 50% pay no federal tax?

 

[JimH52]

GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - Yahoo! News

They are now becoming brazen. They are not even trying to hide their efforts to screw the middle class and pad the pockets of the rich. The come up with lame excuses. Then the FOX sheep buy everything, hook, line, and sinker.

How can these people keep screwing over middle America, and getting away with it!

But Republican lawmakers haven't always worried about tax cuts increasing the deficit. They led the fight to extend the life of a much bigger tax break: the major 2001 income tax reduction enacted under Bush. It was scheduled to expire at the start of this year. Obama campaigned on a pledge to end the tax break only for the richest Americans, but solid GOP opposition forced him to back down.

So, this will increase the deficit, but the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't? What a bunch of HYPCRITES!

The GOP isn't hypocritical.

They openly acknowledge that they don't give a damn about the working classes.

That's been their stance my entire lifetime.

That doesn't matter. The FOX sheep will continue to follow. It is like that news station has some kind of hypnotic hold over its viewers.

 

[Brutus]

They openly acknowledge that they don't give a damn about the working classes.

actually the top 1% pay 40 % of all federal taxes, the bottom 50% pay nothing. Moreover, BO is lying to you. If he got all the new taxes he wanted from the rich it would not change the debt at all, but would harm economy a lot!

Also, please keep in mind that Fox agrees with our Founders about limited government and limited taxes. Sorry to make you think.

 

[Brutus]

government is the problem, not he solution.

this might be so especially now that most are agreeing the liberal Federal Reserve with a big assist from liberal Fanny/Freddie/CRA caused the current huge "Great Recession."

 

[Brutus]

How can these people keep screwing over middle America, and getting away with it!

actually it is the liberal unions that screwed the middle class by exporting 20 million jobs. Lets not forget too that the liberals invited 20 million illegals to take 10 million jobs here just so they could get votes from the liberal illegal community.

 

[expat_panama]

Of course anyone actually looking at the the issue sees that what's actually going on is Obama trying to slash Social Security funding --that's got nothing to do with the deficit. But hey, if Marxists ever bothered with the truth here this place would be Boredom City.

this is a bit off topic, but how come the biggest obama haters are always coming up with caricatures that make him look awesome?

Probably because there's no way around it, Obama looks awesome!

People like to think they're logical but the hard fact is that logic doesn't motivate, emotion does and most decisions are made on an emotional basis. People who work in sales know this and put all their effort into a solid emotional bond within 15 seconds, and the only purpose of the 10 minute sales pitch is for supplying a logical framework the buyer will use to justify a decision that's already made.

On this very thread we see Obama gutting Social Security, and proceeding to hate the Republicans for being hypocrites.

 

[flacaltenn]

Getting back to the OP.. ExPatPanama is right. The break on payroll taxes is GUTTING soc sec ability to pay current reciepients. Couldn't come at a worse time. Soc Sec actually went into negative balance at least 6 years ahead of schedule PARTLY because of these breaks.

There's nothing sillier than using borrowed money to pay currrent recipients of "insurance programs". It costs future taxpayers $1.35 for each dollar paid out. And each dollar of the Obama payroll tax excused -- means a $1.35 will be spent THIS YEAR to cover it. How sustainable is that given the sizes of the payroll programs?

The REAL grinches who want to raise taxes on the Middle Class are the ones calling for repealing the Bush Tax cuts. And there are plenty of Dem firetoads who want the whole dam thing gone..

 

[iamwhatiseem]

GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - Yahoo! News

They are now becoming brazen. They are not even trying to hide their efforts to screw the middle class and pad the pockets of the rich. The come up with lame excuses. Then the FOX sheep buy everything, hook, line, and sinker.

How can these people keep screwing over middle America, and getting away with it!



So, this will increase the deficit, but the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't? What a bunch of HYPCRITES!

"...tax break only for the richest Americans..."

Jimmy....

....did you know that almost all of the Bush tax cuts went to middle and lower income folks?
Did you know that?

And, did you know that President Bush belonged to the G-O-P???

The revenue cost of the tax cuts totals approximately $2.2 trillion over the 2001–2010 period. ...

The tax cuts have disproportionately benefited high-income taxpayers. ...

Nearly two-thirds of the tax cuts will go to the top quintile of taxpayers in 2010 and only 1 percent will go to the lowest quintile.

The Bush Tax Cuts — Who Benefited | The Blue States

Bush economic policies are triggering dangerous economic and social polarization : Dangerous Intersection

Hmm...this graph...what is this supposed to show.
What is the red graph? "Taxpayers between 0-$20,000"...that doesn't exist.

 

[rdean]

2012 and the Republicans are running on:

-My way or highway government.
-Ending Social Security.
-Raising Taxes on the poor and middle class.
-Ending Medicare.
-Getting rid of regulations.
-Lower taxes for the rich. (Wealth extractors)
-Introducing religion into law.

That should work well.

And you wonder why I call you a moron so often.... seriously, if you didn't keep handing me the evidence, I wouldn't keep doing it.

You're an embarrassment to thinking liberals.

Looks like a pretty good list. Which one was wrong?

 

[rdean]

...this will increase the deficit, but the huge tax break given to the wealthy didn't? What a bunch of HYPCRITES!

OH BOY! NAME CALLING FOOD FIGHT!!!!

Of course anyone actually looking at the the issue sees that what's actually going on is Obama trying to slash Social Security funding --that's got nothing to do with the deficit. But hey, if Marxists ever bothered with the truth here this place would be Boredom City.

this is a bit off topic, but how come the biggest obama haters are always coming up with caricatures that make him look awesome?

They think he's a "God". They always call him the "messiah" and the "anointed one". I don't know a single Democrat that talks like that.

 

[rdean]

Business pays 6.2% and the worker pays 6.2%. Under Obama's payroll tax plan, workers only paid 4.2%.

But the rate is capped at around 105,000, meaning only 6.2% on 105,000. That means the rich pay almost nothing relative to their income. But for the middle class, how many make over 105,000? No one? Few? Very few?

It's another attack on the Middle Class by the Republican leadership. And what the fuck is wrong with their base. Either they are masochists or stupid. Because you can bet all these USMB Republicans are NOT rich. Believe it.

No one even seems to be talking about what the payroll tax actually does.

Republicans, it IS a tax increase on the Middle Class. A group of people many right wingers say "doesn't exist". I guess that's the way they pander to the rich. Pretending the middle class doesn't exist and the poor aren't really poor.