GOP Representative Cliff Stearns: "Sell off the National Parks"

[Sweet Willy]

Crazy Idea!

Or is it? Some where some how the bills need to be paid. Eliminating the tax cuts even for the middle class leaves us with trillion dollar deficits with another entitlement set to kick in.

God help us all.

So, national parks cost money, or make money? If he just wants to get rid of them, I'd buy 'em for a dollar a piece. Lots of money that could be made, I'm sure.

WHY does the government charge to be on LAND that belongs to the people?

They don't for the most part. Fee areas are ones that require management. Camp grounds and shower houses and trails don't build or maintain themselves. On Forest lands, there are no fees. You can hike and bike and ride horses, etc. for free. Primitive camping sometimes requires a permit, but it's usually free. They just do it to make sure that you know the "no trace" policy and fire conditions.

Each district has a "Forest Use Plan" that is open to public comments. Any time you'd like to contribute your voice to any areas you'd like to see opened, closed, a fee charged, a fee removed, you can absolutely join the conversation and have your input considered.

 

[Sweet Willy]

So, national parks cost money, or make money? If he just wants to get rid of them, I'd buy 'em for a dollar a piece. Lots of money that could be made, I'm sure.

WHY does the government charge to be on LAND that belongs to the people?

They don't for the most part. Fee areas are ones that require management. Camp grounds and shower houses and trails don't build or maintain themselves. On Forest lands, there are no fees. You can hike and bike and ride horses, etc. for free. Primitive camping sometimes requires a permit, but it's usually free. They just do it to make sure that you know the "no trace" policy and fire conditions.

Each district has a "Forest Use Plan" that is open to public comments. Any time you'd like to contribute your voice to any areas you'd like to see opened, closed, a fee charged, a fee removed, you can absolutely join the conversation and have your input considered.

Oh...let me add also, if you really want to see results all you have to do is get involved. I keep up with everything in the district and let me give you an example of how one person can make a difference:

There was a proposal to improve some canoe access points on the Enoree river. One of the points was well used, the other was almost never used. it is on a stretch of river that has very low recreational value. When these improvements were scoped for public input, as everything is, I put my thoughts together and sent them in as I always do. I told them that I favored improvements on the one access but saw the other access a waste of resources to spend money there. Turns out, I was the sole respondent. They did exactly as I asked them to do.

Look, a lot of the carrying on about these things is just you guys whining to be whining. I don't say that to insult anyone or hurt feelings. If you want this stuffed changed, the first thing you do is get yourself together and focus on the change you want and decide the best way you can influence that change.

Beating up on each other and swearing and calling one another bad names or putting every little thing into one of two categories Republican (good) Democrat (bad) is not admirable or productive. For God's sake, pull yourselves together and stand up!

 

[The T]

So, national parks cost money, or make money? If he just wants to get rid of them, I'd buy 'em for a dollar a piece. Lots of money that could be made, I'm sure.

WHY does the government charge to be on LAND that belongs to the people?

They don't for the most part. Fee areas are ones that require management. Camp grounds and shower houses and trails don't build or maintain themselves. On Forest lands, there are no fees. You can hike and bike and ride horses, etc. for free. Primitive camping sometimes requires a permit, but it's usually free. They just do it to make sure that you know the "no trace" policy and fire conditions.

Each district has a "Forest Use Plan" that is open to public comments. Any time you'd like to contribute your voice to any areas you'd like to see opened, closed, a fee charged, a fee removed, you can absolutely join the conversation and have your input considered.

But they have a budget, do they not?

Spare me. The lands belong to the people. I have NO problem will selling them off if it will tamp DOWN the deficit;.

 

[The T]

China will likely buy Yellowstone.

The Smokey mountains will provide lots of lumber.

etc.

The minute China enters the picture? Game over. WAR time.

 

[uscitizen]

Gutting America's natural treasures..

Nice!

Hey dumb liberal this is what you sow when you spend more money than you have, and this is just the beginning. You idiots are running out of ways to tax people and soon there won't be any money to pay for any of the government's bullshit waste.

Oh whine save the trees. Lolol. What a joke.

Squander now save nothing for our grandchildren?
I have seen so many do that on a personal level, rapidly squander an inheritance in a few years or less that thei praents worked hard and saved all their lives to build up.
It is how I got my start in wealth. A kid inherited his parents farm and just wanted quick cash knowing that there was very good commercial prospects for the property. I went in debt up to the eyeballs and bought it and turned it around for a big profit before the market fell apart. And invested the profits.
The kid had a new boat and pickup truck and such to show for his parents long hard working and thrifty life.
I actually tole the kid he could spend a bit more time and get a lot more for it, but he wanted cash now, not needed but wanted.

He is now living check to check again and I am worth around 2 mill with no debts.

 

[Sweet Willy]

WHY does the government charge to be on LAND that belongs to the people?

They don't for the most part. Fee areas are ones that require management. Camp grounds and shower houses and trails don't build or maintain themselves. On Forest lands, there are no fees. You can hike and bike and ride horses, etc. for free. Primitive camping sometimes requires a permit, but it's usually free. They just do it to make sure that you know the "no trace" policy and fire conditions.

Each district has a "Forest Use Plan" that is open to public comments. Any time you'd like to contribute your voice to any areas you'd like to see opened, closed, a fee charged, a fee removed, you can absolutely join the conversation and have your input considered.

But they have a budget, do they not?

Spare me. The lands belong to the people. I have NO problem will selling them off if it will tamp DOWN the deficit;.

Their budgets are pretty pathetic right now.

Maybe you haven't read along but the answer to your question is likely "NO". It won't tamp down the deficit. I would say the likely hood is it would increase it. We MAKE MONEY with our public lands. Again, just our district, 190,000 acres in SC is the third largest timber producer we own. We make a lot of money off this land. Aside from that, you would also have to understand that cashing in land on this kind of scale would be a decades long process. Who would you suppose would buy it? The timber companies are fire selling land already. (and guess who is buying it?)

No... this sort of reaction is just another knee jerk that I don't think you are taking even a few minutes to consider.

 

[Immanuel]

Well... there is always debt forgiveness. There is a Christian idea of debt forgiveness on 7 years, I think it is. Called "the Lord's release" I think. What if Christians that hold US debt just forgave it?

Just for accuracy's sake, that is not a "Christian" idea. It is an Old Testament (Jewish) Law and to my knowledge it has never been adopted as any Judeo-Christian law.

It is one of those Jewish Laws such as men not being allowed to trim their beards that we have never adopted. To be honest, as someone who literally hates to shave and has a very thick beard, I wouldn't mind adopting the no beard trimming law.

Immie

Well yes, but I have never really understood the selective memory when it comes to the OT. Exodus 20 sure gets a lot of press to be OT, right? Can I assume that you're on the side of taking those down from the court house on the same grounds?

Do not assume any such thing.

I happen to be a Christian that believes that without the Old Testament the New Testament is worthless. Jesus Christ would be nothing if it were not for the prophecies of the Old Testament.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

11 ‘Give us this day [a]our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Maybe a NT reference will help you recall the Christian idea of debt forgiveness?

The more accurate translation to that is Trespasses and it refers to sins not money.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Hello? Immie? Are you a Christian or a republican first? I am here as your brother in Christ. Can you find it in your heart to acknowledge the Christian value of forgiveness? The judgement of these men can not hurt you.

And to what, pray tell, are you speaking.

Forgiveness of what?

I simply pointed out to you that the idea that you stated was a Christian idea was in fact a Jewish law and was not adopted by modern times.

By the way, if you call me a Republican again, there will be little chance of me ever forgiving you!

Immie

 

[Sweet Willy]

Gutting America's natural treasures..

Nice!

Hey dumb liberal this is what you sow when you spend more money than you have, and this is just the beginning. You idiots are running out of ways to tax people and soon there won't be any money to pay for any of the government's bullshit waste.

Oh whine save the trees. Lolol. What a joke.

Squander now save nothing for our grandchildren?
I have seen so many do that on a personal level, rapidly squander an inheritance in a few years or less that thei praents worked hard and saved all their lives to build up.
It is how I got my start in wealth. A kid inherited his parents farm and just wanted quick cash knowing that there was very good commercial prospects for the property. I went in debt up to the eyeballs and bought it and turned it around for a big profit before the market fell apart. And invested the profits.
The kid had a new boat and pickup truck and such to show for his parents long hard working and thrifty life.
I actually tole the kid he could spend a bit more time and get a lot more for it, but he wanted cash now, not needed but wanted.

He is now living check to check again and I am worth around 2 mill with no debts.

And this is why we are buying more timber land in our district right now. The USFS is not run by a bunch of dummies. They are timber people, educated at Clemson and NC State. The district has a few thousand acres of mature timber poised for a big sale and the money is going into buying more land. Even though times are tough and we have lost employees that there is no money to replace them, the money from timber is being used to acquire even more timber land. Because THAT is how you make money to pay our debts. A business oriented politician like Ol' Ross Perot would set some folks straight on this idea.

 

[Immanuel]

40And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

You seem to be juxtaposing the idea of the forgiveness of sin with the forgiveness of debt.

In this parable, Jesus was using the idea of the forgiveness of debt comparing it to the forgiveness we receive from Heaven.

Immie

 

[Mustang]

Seriously, what is wrong with these people?

Stearns wants to sell off public lands

Conservatives are getting to be more like the old Soviets every day. And if the conservatives in power get their way, this country will end up bearing a striking resemblance to Russia as it is today; We'll be an oligarchy.

 

[Sweet Willy]

So Immie, again, I would just put this out there:

I think that if Christians would forgive the US debt they hold, and chalk it up to forgiveness of their Christian nations debt, it wouldn't be a bad thing. In fact, I'd say it at least wouldn't be sinful and at most would be an admirable thing for Christians to do.

 

[candycorn]

Who would we sell the national parks to? China?

The righties are losing their minds. Stephanie really should think sometime prior to posting.

 

[Sweet Willy]

40And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

You seem to be juxtaposing the idea of the forgiveness of sin with the forgiveness of debt.

In this parable, Jesus was using the idea of the forgiveness of debt comparing it to the forgiveness we receive from Heaven.

Immie

I seem?

Jesus chose to use the forgiveness of debt in this parable Immie.

 

[uscitizen]

Yep sell off that land and the oil and mineral wealth underneath it to foreign interests.

this is wrong on so many levels and so shortsighted.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Who would we sell the national parks to? China?

The righties are losing their minds. Stephanie really should think sometime prior to posting.

Exactly.

Timber companies are selling their land already. There aren't many buyers right now for vast tracts of timber land. We'd have to sell to foreigners.

 

[uscitizen]

Who would we sell the national parks to? China?

The righties are losing their minds. Stephanie really should think sometime prior to posting.

They could buy them just like anyone else.
And since they have the most disposable cash of any country right now...
There is more than one way to conquer America and some are eager to see it happen.

 

[Immanuel]

So Immie, again, I would just put this out there:

I think that if Christians would forgive the US debt they hold, and chalk it up to forgiveness of their Christian nations debt, it wouldn't be a bad thing. In fact, I'd say it at least wouldn't be sinful and at most would be an admirable thing for Christians to do.

How much US Debt do you hold? I don't hold any T-Bills, or US Bonds.

Are you willing to forgive the US Debt you hold? If not what gives you the right to ask others to forgive the debt they hold?

The biblical concept worked very well back in the days it was implimented. But, do you realize that when a person lent money or land to another they charged based upon the length of time until the next year of forgiveness or in regards to land the next year of Jubilee (the 50th year)?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Who would we sell the national parks to? China?

The righties are losing their minds. Stephanie really should think sometime prior to posting.

I CLAIM YOSEMITE!!!!

Immie