GOP Overplayed It's Hand /America and The Tea Party = Losers

[LibocalypseNow]

Btw,Frum is a classic Neocon/Progressive disguised as a Conservative. He writes for the NY Times for God's sake. That should have been the give away. The NY Times is certainly not known for its Conservative leanings. It is known for it's extreme Left leanings though. The GOP just needs to wave bye bye to the Neocon/Progressives like Frum once and for all. They're finally getting back on track so there is no need to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They had their day and that day is now over. Who cares what Frum thinks.

 

[hboats]

LOL... And how many of these people actually read the bill....

Did anyone see Brian Williams at 6:30 last night.

He started off with "the historic passing of helathcare" and continued with how "millions of Americans across the nation will see an increase in the quality of their healthcare"

He made a statement of fact that is, right now, nothing but speculation....

Yep.....now it is fact...reported as fact.....STATED AS FACT BY A NEWS ANCHOR...............so no wonder the favorable ratings went up.

Because it is a fact. There are people who will survive this year to live another because this bill passed.

That's a lie. The benefits of this bill don't go into effect until 2014. Please, tell me exactly how this bill has saved ANY lives this year. I want proof. Thanks in advance.

Rick

 

[Oldandtired]

Did anyone see Brian Williams at 6:30 last night.

He started off with "the historic passing of helathcare" and continued with how "millions of Americans across the nation will see an increase in the quality of their healthcare"

He made a statement of fact that is, right now, nothing but speculation....

Yep.....now it is fact...reported as fact.....STATED AS FACT BY A NEWS ANCHOR...............so no wonder the favorable ratings went up.

Because it is a fact. There are people who will survive this year to live another because this bill passed.

That's a lie. The benefits of this bill don't go into effect until 2014. Please, tell me exactly how this bill has saved ANY lives this year. I want proof. Thanks in advance.

Rick

TM is passionate and I give her credit for that. It is one of the things that makes me smile...passion for a belief.

However, she has time after time showed all of us that she only knows what she reads on the internet...and knows very little as it pertains to fact.

It is a sad waste of passion

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Btw,Frum is a classic Neocon/Progressive disguised as a Conservative. He writes for the NY Times for God's sake. That should have been the give away. The NY Times is certainly not known for its Conservative leanings. It is known for it's extreme Left leanings though. The GOP just needs to wave bye bye to the Neocon/Progressives like Frum once and for all. They're finally getting back on track so there is no need to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They had their day and that day is now over. Who cares what Frum thinks.

He writes F-O-R the NYT, or the NYT carries his articles?

 

[Stephanie]

Btw,Frum is a classic Neocon/Progressive disguised as a Conservative. He writes for the NY Times for God's sake. That should have been the give away. The NY Times is certainly not known for its Conservative leanings. It is known for it's extreme Left leanings though. The GOP just needs to wave bye bye to the Neocon/Progressives like Frum once and for all. They're finally getting back on track so there is no need to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They had their day and that day is now over. Who cares what Frum thinks.

He writes F-O-R the NYT, or the NYT carries his articles?

either way, he's a progressive lite and doesn't speak for anybody but himself.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Frum is not a Conservative. I stand by that. He is a classic Neocon/Progressive. He's exactly what's been wrong with the GOP for many years. The GOP looks like it's finally getting back on track. Hopefully they wont panic over this setback and start to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They have a nasty habit of doing that. Just keep standing up for real Freedom & Liberty and the People will follow.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Frum is not a Conservative. I stand by that. He is a classic Neocon/Progressive. He's exactly what's been wrong with the GOP for many years. The GOP looks like it's finally getting back on track. Hopefully they wont panic over this setback and start to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They have a nasty habit of doing that. Just keep standing up for real Freedom & Liberty and the People will follow.

you're a fringe nut case.

I stand by that.

 

[Stephanie]

Frum is not a Conservative. I stand by that. He is a classic Neocon/Progressive. He's exactly what's been wrong with the GOP for many years. The GOP looks like it's finally getting back on track. Hopefully they wont panic over this setback and start to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They have a nasty habit of doing that. Just keep standing up for real Freedom & Liberty and the People will follow.

you're a fringe nut case.

I stand by that.

wooboy, that is rich.
you calling others fringe.

 

[Cuyo]

You guys obviously have no idea what you are talking about.... Do you guys even have a clue how many votes it takes to pass something???? FYI - In case CNN hasn't told you yet... The Democrats don't need Republican support... It wasn't Republicans holding this up... It was your own damn party....


You better kill the country as much as possible because come November it is going to be a long time until the Dems get back in power... This is something that won't quickly be forgotten...

It's soo funny to see you dopes promulgate this theory that "kill[ing] the country as much as possible" is the goal of the Democrats.

 

[beowolfe]

I disagree. They did all they could. They just didn't have the numbers in the end. This Dem-led Congress is by far the dirtiest Congress i've ever seen. They pulled out every dirty trick imaginable to pass their debacle. The Republicans stood up and fought but in the end just didn't have the numbers. For the first time in years i'm actually proud of the Republican Party. This Bill is just wrong for the country on so many levels. People will begin to realize that in the coming years. When the IRS comes knocking for those unpaid fines or "taxes" for not buying Health Insurance,i think that's when it's going to hit home for many Americans who just weren't paying attention to what the Democrats did. I actually applaud the Republicans. Worst U.S. Congress in History? You bet.

You disagree? Surprise, surprise. But hey, you've never been one of our most rational posters.

 

[Cuyo]

Did anyone see Brian Williams at 6:30 last night.

He started off with "the historic passing of helathcare" and continued with how "millions of Americans across the nation will see an increase in the quality of their healthcare"

He made a statement of fact that is, right now, nothing but speculation....

Yep.....now it is fact...reported as fact.....STATED AS FACT BY A NEWS ANCHOR...............so no wonder the favorable ratings went up.

Because it is a fact. There are people who will survive this year to live another because this bill passed.

That's a lie. The benefits of this bill don't go into effect until 2014. Please, tell me exactly how this bill has saved ANY lives this year. I want proof. Thanks in advance.

Rick

Pre-existing conditions, not getting dropped when you get sick go into effect immediately.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I think it's even funnier that the Democrats are acting as if they won this thing in a Landslide or something. They barely got their debacle through despite having absolute dominance in Congress. They pulled every dirty slimy trick imaginable to get their debacle through. That will not be forgotten by many. In the end i think it's the Democrats who overplayed their hand. Frum is just wrong. Neocon/Progressives usually are.

 

[Oldandtired]

You guys obviously have no idea what you are talking about.... Do you guys even have a clue how many votes it takes to pass something???? FYI - In case CNN hasn't told you yet... The Democrats don't need Republican support... It wasn't Republicans holding this up... It was your own damn party....


You better kill the country as much as possible because come November it is going to be a long time until the Dems get back in power... This is something that won't quickly be forgotten...

It's soo funny to see you dopes promulgate this theory that "kill[ing] the country as much as possible" is the goal of the Democrats.

Actually, the more rational of us conservatives see Obama as one that will go after whatever he wants without concern of the long term ramifications of his agenda.

Not that he wants to kill this country...

Instead, he does not concern himslef with the "cost" side of the "cost / benefit" analysis.

Some say that is the best way to operate....many of us say otherwise.

How did that fare for Bush in Iraq?

Johnson in Viet Nam?

Hitler in Russia?

The Romans?

 

[beowolfe]

It is not. Sadly the DEMS were so much wrapped up in party over country, they have opened a pandoras box that may never be closed...and as with the tea partyers, the democratic party has many on the left ignoring how the people are not necessartily being served...they are strictly the benefactors of an agenda....

I dont' see it that way. HCR is a big gamble. There is no guarantee that passing this has gotten the dems any political advantage. If they can't get some of the more aggregous things out of this bill, it may yet bite them where the sun doesn't shine.

That said, in a two party system, once a party starts behaving in this way (party before country) what is the remaing party to do? Just get plowed under? I've never considered the Dems to be overly politically astute. They do some really dumb things sometimes. But, I can honestly say that the major initiatives supported by the dems and liberals over the last century, most have not provided the Dems a sustained 'bump' with the voters. The New Deal did. But Civil Rights legislation backfired on them. We don't know how HCR will play out politically over the long haul yet.

When the GOP tasted a congressional majority in the 1990's, it appears they became addicted and started focusing on retaining power at any cost rather than focusing on retaining power through good governance.

 

[Cuyo]

It is not. Sadly the DEMS were so much wrapped up in party over country, they have opened a pandoras box that may never be closed...and as with the tea partyers, the democratic party has many on the left ignoring how the people are not necessartily being served...they are strictly the benefactors of an agenda....

I dont' see it that way. HCR is a big gamble. There is no guarantee that passing this has gotten the dems any political advantage. If they can't get some of the more aggregous things out of this bill, it may yet bite them where the sun doesn't shine.

That said, in a two party system, once a party starts behaving in this way (party before country) what is the remaing party to do? Just get plowed under? I've never considered the Dems to be overly politically astute. They do some really dumb things sometimes. But, I can honestly say that the major initiatives supported by the dems and liberals over the last century, most have not provided the Dems a sustained 'bump' with the voters. The New Deal did. But Civil Rights legislation backfired on them. We don't know how HCR will play out politically over the long haul yet.

When the GOP tasted a congressional majority in the 1990's, it appears they became addicted and started focusing on retaining power at any cost rather than focusing on retaining power through good governance.

Here's what's sad to me. If there are aspects of the bill that are not working, I think the R's will fight tooth and nail changing it, the same way they fought the bill itself. They are so invested this bill failing, now they will do anything within their power to insure it does just that. To hell with the effect on Americans. To paint the Dems as failures, there is nothing they won't sacrifice.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Frum is not a Conservative. I stand by that. He is a classic Neocon/Progressive. He's exactly what's been wrong with the GOP for many years. The GOP looks like it's finally getting back on track. Hopefully they wont panic over this setback and start to fall back on the Neocon/Progressives for guidance. They have a nasty habit of doing that. Just keep standing up for real Freedom & Liberty and the People will follow.

you're a fringe nut case.

I stand by that.

wooboy, that is rich.
you calling others fringe.

most people do not consider me on the fringe. but I do notice those with a fringe mindset think everyone who disagrees with them is ...fringe.

I've had conservatives in SoCal tell me if I started blogging my ideas and take on things (instead of playing) they would tune in.

sucks to be you

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Repealing parts if not all of this Dem debacle should be the top priority for the Republicans if they regain some power. There are parts such as forcing Citizens to buy Health Insurance by way of threats of fines and wage garnishment that should be repealed immediately if possible. Lets hope this can happen at some point.

 

[Oldandtired]

It is not. Sadly the DEMS were so much wrapped up in party over country, they have opened a pandoras box that may never be closed...and as with the tea partyers, the democratic party has many on the left ignoring how the people are not necessartily being served...they are strictly the benefactors of an agenda....

I dont' see it that way. HCR is a big gamble. There is no guarantee that passing this has gotten the dems any political advantage. If they can't get some of the more aggregous things out of this bill, it may yet bite them where the sun doesn't shine.

That said, in a two party system, once a party starts behaving in this way (party before country) what is the remaing party to do? Just get plowed under? I've never considered the Dems to be overly politically astute. They do some really dumb things sometimes. But, I can honestly say that the major initiatives supported by the dems and liberals over the last century, most have not provided the Dems a sustained 'bump' with the voters. The New Deal did. But Civil Rights legislation backfired on them. We don't know how HCR will play out politically over the long haul yet.

When the GOP tasted a congressional majority in the 1990's, it appears they became addicted and started focusing on retaining power at any cost rather than focusing on retaining power through good governance.

The DEMS have labelled it as Obama's defining moment.

Nowhere have I heard them say that this is a defining moment for America.

This was for their party...and if the people benefit from it, great.

 

[drsmith1072]

What has happened? I will use a holistic approach to frame the context.

If reason and rationality are valued, an honest accounting of what actually happened must include, an acknowledgment of the validity of the frustration and anger of the original Tea Party rally attendees. What also must be acknowledged is the fact that fringe groups and individuals aligned themselves with these everyday, average people who attended the rallies. And still more must be acknowledged: main stream groups like the one run by Tom Delay, were providing assistance and guidance early on. A movement was in the making, that is true, but there is more to this than a ground up movement---much as there was more to the Obama movement early on in the primary campaign. I believe both involved the heavy use of astroturfing. (more on this later)

What the Tea Party movement became, and the how it became what it has, is an interesting case study in political movements in this new age of constant noise and manipulation by the media. The media and others are using the latest technology available to meet our expectations of immediate gratification. Those who manipulate, know this and do/use it well.

Take what I have observed as the faux GOP outrage and hysteria at Democrats using parliamentary rules to achieve ends. The GOP drove some people crazy doing the very same during the years they ruled---years they would use rules in ways that strained boundaries.

The GOP has played a game with the Tea Party movement that is nothing more than a tool for regaining power. Don't take only my word for this:

“Politically, I get the ‘let’s trip up the other side, make them fail’ strategy,” he said. “But what’s more important, to win extra seats or to shape the most important piece of social legislation since the 1960s? It was a go-for-all-the-marbles approach. Unless they produced an absolute failure for Mr. Obama, there wasn’t going to be any political benefit.”

---

House Republican leader, Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, warned that the legislation would be “the last straw for the American people.” Representative Marsha Blackburn, Republican of Tennessee, proclaimed several hours earlier, “Freedom dies a little bit today.”

---

“When our core group discover that this thing is not as catastrophic as advertised, they are going to be less energized than they are right now,”

Political Memo - Republicans Face Drawbacks of United Stand on Health Bill - NYTimes.com

-David Frum News - The New York Times
David Frum/American Enterprise Institute

The GOP has been playing a game that looks to winning extra seats in Congress and elsewhere and not on of shaping "the most important piece of social legislation since the 1960s" which is what they were elected to do.

For the past few decades the GOP has been all about power and the heck with their base constituencies and others. Party over Country.

It is rare we see eye to eye, but I agree with much you say here.

However, I noticed that you only mnetion this as an issue with the GOP.

It is not. Sadly the DEMS were so much wrapped up in party over country, they have opened a pandoras box that may never be closed...and as with the tea partyers, the democratic party has many on the left ignoring how the people are not necessartily being served...they are strictly the benefactors of an agenda....

The fact that many saw no problem with the gaming the game we just saw is proof of this. It opened the door for the GOP to game the game as well when they have the power to do so...and the partisnashiop on the left allowed this door to open....just as the arrogance of the right allowed the GOP to get away with things...that we now see are being applied to more pertinent legislation.

I do not know if it was a typo...but your tilte says America and the TP's are the losers.

I agree......we all lose. The political partys are the only winners.

Based on what I have seen and heard most democrats believe that they are passing this for the good of the country and NOT for party over country. If they were acting as you claim then they would NOT have gone against "the will of the people" which will hurt their party as has been claimed by righties MANY times.

Contrary to that republicans do seem to be placing party before country based on how they are out to obstruct anything and everything even bills that they intitially supported or cosponsored so they can try to gain back seats in both houses in november.

LOL you tried the "game the game" talking point in another thread, I responded and you disappeared.

BTW were you this pessimistic and against it when republicans were "gaming the game" back when they had the white house and both houses of congress?? You seem to wish to ignore the fact that republicans had used the same procedures in the past that dems were proposing to use now as you try to claim that Dems "left the door open" when republicans have used the same doors previously. Which means that they were "left open" long before democrats tried to go through them.

 

[drsmith1072]

The embarrassing thing for Democrat supports is their hypocricsy... Bribes by Democrats are no big deal but if a Republican does it it's a HUGE deal... That's the biggest difference between conservative and liberals...

So what is your belief concerning how republicans hypocritcally believed that bribes for republicans in the past were no big deal but NOW if a democrat does it it's a HUGE deal? LOL

Furthermore, many demcorats were upset by the republicans now call bribes and that is part of the reason for the reconciliation bill. It is to remove some of what you call bribes. So as far as I am concerned if you are against the bill then you support the bribes.