GOP has it right..Dems ARE stupid!

[Jarhead]

Not at all... Private sector employees should be fighting for better wages instead of voting themselves out of jobs by voting for the GOP who have been the driving force behind union busting, outsourcing and most of the Corporate Pandering that has been screwing us blind.

based on what you said.....and I respect your posts.....

and I dont feel this way....

But....

Americans are the most selfish, self centered people in the world.

Look around you. Americans, on the most part, live very comfortable lives. It is not a question of cell phones..it is a question of how many. Not a question of TV's...a question of how many. Not a question of AC...a question of central or window units...not a question of a refrigerator...a question of does it have an ice maker.

Yet, according to you....we deserve more.

I disagree.

Well... I do agree that we are very self centered. But that's our culture, isn't it? Materialism has been our mainstay and the means of our economic success over most of the last century. We are bombarded with Ads and Marketing to buy more. We treat successful people like they are demigods. Money, power and fame gives one INSTANT Credibility.... it matters not what those people stand for... it doesn't matter if that person is worthy or not.

The GOP platform is one that wants to perpetuate that. That the wealthy and the powerful are more important than the masses who live in obscurity. I disagree with that.

Like I said, I do agree that we are spoiled. But I don't think the answer is to remove wealth from the everyday people "for their own good" and hand it over to the most powerful and most capable.

BTW.... what's wrong with China, India and all those other countries competing directly, instead of having our country subsidizing them at our expense? I mean.. your side hates Communism and Socialism... but yet you seem to have no problem with our Corporations not only supporting those agendas... but actually strengthening them economically.

Or is it the United States role to play "World Welfare" now? I'm not talking about humanitarian aid, I am talking about actually subsidizing other countries' economies.

the problem is that you and I see the GOP agenda differently...so we will never be able to agree on this topic.
The GOP is not looking to help the rich and the business owners with their initiatives. The GOP is looking to preserve free trade and liberty for all...including the business owners....not JUST the business owners and the wealthy.

Why shgould you, as an American, have the right to shop around to find the best price....even if it means buying a foreign made product....but business owners are not allowed to shop around to minimize operating costs..even if it means opening up overseas?

You want to be told by the government that you can ONLY buy American made?

If yes, then I respect your argument.

If no, then it comes across as hypocritical.

 

[naturegirl]

Not at all... Private sector employees should be fighting for better wages instead of voting themselves out of jobs by voting for the GOP who have been the driving force behind union busting, outsourcing and most of the Corporate Pandering that has been screwing us blind.

based on what you said.....and I respect your posts.....

and I dont feel this way....

But....

Americans are the most selfish, self centered people in the world.

Look around you. Americans, on the most part, live very comfortable lives. It is not a question of cell phones..it is a question of how many. Not a question of TV's...a question of how many. Not a question of AC...a question of central or window units...not a question of a refrigerator...a question of does it have an ice maker.

Yet, according to you....we deserve more.

I disagree.

Well... I do agree that we are very self centered. But that's our culture, isn't it? Materialism has been our mainstay and the means of our economic success over most of the last century. We are bombarded with Ads and Marketing to buy more. We treat successful people like they are demigods. Money, power and fame gives one INSTANT Credibility.... it matters not what those people stand for... it doesn't matter if that person is worthy or not.

The GOP platform is one that wants to perpetuate that. That the wealthy and the powerful are more important than the masses who live in obscurity. I disagree with that.

Like I said, I do agree that we are spoiled. But I don't think the answer is to remove wealth from the everyday people "for their own good" and hand it over to the most powerful and most capable.

BTW.... what's wrong with China, India and all those other countries competing directly, instead of having our country subsidizing them at our expense? I mean.. your side hates Communism and Socialism... but yet you seem to have no problem with our Corporations not only supporting those agendas... but actually strengthening them economically.

Or is it the United States role to play "World Welfare" now? I'm not talking about humanitarian aid, I am talking about actually subsidizing other countries' economies.

I do respect your post (most of the time) as well, however the fittest do survive. If we break the hunters who's going to get the food??

In all societies there are strong warriors and those that prepare the feast. We must get rid of this class warfare attitude and get back to basics. Even the warriors know if they don't have anyone to prepare the feast, no one will eat, no matter how much they bring to the table.

America became strong and rich by caring for other Americans, we didn't get that way by putting down our next door neighbors. We extended a helping hand when they needed it, temporarily. We now have a huge number of people that don't know how to make it on their own, the government has given them much more than they need.

Until we take government out of our pocket books and start controlling more of our own money we will continue this down hill slide.

I believe this is the biggest fundamental difference in Conservatives and Liberals. We believe in helping people help themselves and liberals believe in helping people remain forever unable to take care of themselves.

 

[Steelplate]

Your lies dont fly.

Your party voted against its own bills simply because Obama said he would support the bill.

The American people have seen your party in action and dont much like what you did.

Debt ceiling messes for political power and the like.

You're posting like America had a love affair with the democrat controlled congress. If this was the case, just how the hell was there a shellacking in the last election?

that doesnt count.
The GOP cheated in the 2010 election.
Everyone knows it.
Just ask Truthmatters. She will tell you. It is fact.

I don't think the GOP cheated... I just think that the Tea Party sounded like a good idea at the time to a lot of people who now have buyer's remorse.

 

[Steelplate]

based on what you said.....and I respect your posts.....

and I dont feel this way....

But....

Americans are the most selfish, self centered people in the world.

Look around you. Americans, on the most part, live very comfortable lives. It is not a question of cell phones..it is a question of how many. Not a question of TV's...a question of how many. Not a question of AC...a question of central or window units...not a question of a refrigerator...a question of does it have an ice maker.

Yet, according to you....we deserve more.

I disagree.

Well... I do agree that we are very self centered. But that's our culture, isn't it? Materialism has been our mainstay and the means of our economic success over most of the last century. We are bombarded with Ads and Marketing to buy more. We treat successful people like they are demigods. Money, power and fame gives one INSTANT Credibility.... it matters not what those people stand for... it doesn't matter if that person is worthy or not.

The GOP platform is one that wants to perpetuate that. That the wealthy and the powerful are more important than the masses who live in obscurity. I disagree with that.

Like I said, I do agree that we are spoiled. But I don't think the answer is to remove wealth from the everyday people "for their own good" and hand it over to the most powerful and most capable.

BTW.... what's wrong with China, India and all those other countries competing directly, instead of having our country subsidizing them at our expense? I mean.. your side hates Communism and Socialism... but yet you seem to have no problem with our Corporations not only supporting those agendas... but actually strengthening them economically.

Or is it the United States role to play "World Welfare" now? I'm not talking about humanitarian aid, I am talking about actually subsidizing other countries' economies.

I do respect your post (most of the time) as well, however the fittest do survive. If we break the hunters who's going to get the food??

In all societies there are strong warriors and those that prepare the feast. We must get rid of this class warfare attitude and get back to basics. Even the warriors know if they don't have anyone to prepare the feast, no one will eat, no matter how much they bring to the table.

America became strong and rich by caring for other Americans, we didn't get that way by putting down our next door neighbors. We extended a helping hand when they needed it, temporarily. We now have a huge number of people that don't know how to make it on their own, the government has given them much more than they need.

Until we take government out of our pocket books and start controlling more of our own money we will continue this down hill slide.

I believe this is the biggest fundamental difference in Conservatives and Liberals. We believe in helping people help themselves and liberals believe in helping people remain forever unable to take care of themselves.

What about when the hunters choose to keep more and more of the meat for themselves and the folks who prepare the meal are suffering as a result?

As far as your last paragraph? Partisan as hell, don't you think?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You do realise nothing will ever get done if you don't do the hard work of giving your precious Obama a congress he can work with RIGHT????

Geeeeeeeeeeeeee......I thought the 2010 Teabagger-candidates were supposed to have EVERYTHING solved, by now!

What are they waiting-for??!!!

​

 

[Meister]

You're posting like America had a love affair with the democrat controlled congress. If this was the case, just how the hell was there a shellacking in the last election?

that doesnt count.
The GOP cheated in the 2010 election.
Everyone knows it.
Just ask Truthmatters. She will tell you. It is fact.

I don't think the GOP cheated... I just think that the Tea Party sounded like a good idea at the time to a lot of people who now have buyer's remorse.

That's what you think, huh? Not many of the Tea Party made it to the big dance.

 

[Jarhead]

Well... I do agree that we are very self centered. But that's our culture, isn't it? Materialism has been our mainstay and the means of our economic success over most of the last century. We are bombarded with Ads and Marketing to buy more. We treat successful people like they are demigods. Money, power and fame gives one INSTANT Credibility.... it matters not what those people stand for... it doesn't matter if that person is worthy or not.

The GOP platform is one that wants to perpetuate that. That the wealthy and the powerful are more important than the masses who live in obscurity. I disagree with that.

Like I said, I do agree that we are spoiled. But I don't think the answer is to remove wealth from the everyday people "for their own good" and hand it over to the most powerful and most capable.

BTW.... what's wrong with China, India and all those other countries competing directly, instead of having our country subsidizing them at our expense? I mean.. your side hates Communism and Socialism... but yet you seem to have no problem with our Corporations not only supporting those agendas... but actually strengthening them economically.

Or is it the United States role to play "World Welfare" now? I'm not talking about humanitarian aid, I am talking about actually subsidizing other countries' economies.

I do respect your post (most of the time) as well, however the fittest do survive. If we break the hunters who's going to get the food??

In all societies there are strong warriors and those that prepare the feast. We must get rid of this class warfare attitude and get back to basics. Even the warriors know if they don't have anyone to prepare the feast, no one will eat, no matter how much they bring to the table.

America became strong and rich by caring for other Americans, we didn't get that way by putting down our next door neighbors. We extended a helping hand when they needed it, temporarily. We now have a huge number of people that don't know how to make it on their own, the government has given them much more than they need.

Until we take government out of our pocket books and start controlling more of our own money we will continue this down hill slide.

I believe this is the biggest fundamental difference in Conservatives and Liberals. We believe in helping people help themselves and liberals believe in helping people remain forever unable to take care of themselves.

What about when the hunters choose to keep more and more of the meat for themselves and the folks who prepare the meal are suffering as a result?

As far as your last paragraph? Partisan as hell, don't you think?

Actually...it is no more partisan than saying that the GOP only care about the wealthy.
But putting that aside....

It is not an issue of liberals believing in helping people remain forever unable tohelp themselves.

It is more about giving people a false sense of security.

Take my sister....(bless her liberal heart)...

She is a single mom (deadbeat x husband)
2 kids...onein college..one going in 2 years.
She owns a condo.
Has a great job.
They do not live extravagent...they live within their means...but very comfortable.

She believes "the rich" should pay m,ore in taxes and all the money should go to free healthcare for all Americans.....she believes in a government run healthcare system...

So I said to her...

"you have healthcare...yes it costs you...but you have it...your kids live comfortably....you own your own condo...you own a car...you meet your needs plus a lot more...so tell me....why do you want free healthcare?"

Her answer?

"so I dont need to weorry about paying for it"

So I reminded her that she DOES pay for it and still has a nice life for her and her girls...

And her response?

"but think of the nicer vacations I could take if I did not have the burden of health insurance"

And that, sir, is the problem with most Americans...it is not about "not having"...it is about "how much more can I get"

And that is a problem.

 

[Steelplate]

that doesnt count.
The GOP cheated in the 2010 election.
Everyone knows it.
Just ask Truthmatters. She will tell you. It is fact.

I don't think the GOP cheated... I just think that the Tea Party sounded like a good idea at the time to a lot of people who now have buyer's remorse.

That's what you think, huh? Not many of the Tea Party made it to the big dance.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. If you mean that not many Tea Party Candidates got elected in 2010, you may be right... however, enough of them did that more and more of the traditional Republican Party shifted further to the right to accommodate them.

 

[Steelplate]

I do respect your post (most of the time) as well, however the fittest do survive. If we break the hunters who's going to get the food??

In all societies there are strong warriors and those that prepare the feast. We must get rid of this class warfare attitude and get back to basics. Even the warriors know if they don't have anyone to prepare the feast, no one will eat, no matter how much they bring to the table.

America became strong and rich by caring for other Americans, we didn't get that way by putting down our next door neighbors. We extended a helping hand when they needed it, temporarily. We now have a huge number of people that don't know how to make it on their own, the government has given them much more than they need.

Until we take government out of our pocket books and start controlling more of our own money we will continue this down hill slide.

I believe this is the biggest fundamental difference in Conservatives and Liberals. We believe in helping people help themselves and liberals believe in helping people remain forever unable to take care of themselves.

What about when the hunters choose to keep more and more of the meat for themselves and the folks who prepare the meal are suffering as a result?

As far as your last paragraph? Partisan as hell, don't you think?

Actually...it is no more partisan than saying that the GOP only care about the wealthy.
But putting that aside....

It is not an issue of liberals believing in helping people remain forever unable tohelp themselves.

It is more about giving people a false sense of security.

Take my sister....(bless her liberal heart)...

She is a single mom (deadbeat x husband)
2 kids...onein college..one going in 2 years.
She owns a condo.
Has a great job.
They do not live extravagent...they live within their means...but very comfortable.

She believes "the rich" should pay m,ore in taxes and all the money should go to free healthcare for all Americans.....she believes in a government run healthcare system...

So I said to her...

"you have healthcare...yes it costs you...but you have it...your kids live comfortably....you own your own condo...you own a car...you meet your needs plus a lot more...so tell me....why do you want free healthcare?"

Her answer?

"so I dont need to weorry about paying for it"

So I reminded her that she DOES pay for it and still has a nice life for her and her girls...

And her response?

"but think of the nicer vacations I could take if I did not have the burden of health insurance"

And that, sir, is the problem with most Americans...it is not about "not having"...it is about "how much more can I get"

And that is a problem.

Well... that's not my motivation for National Health Care. My motivation is thinking about the people who CAN'T afford health care, small businesses who have to compete for employees with big business who provide it for their employees, and those who are paying for it and struggling mightily in the process. Plus, I am of the firm belief that Health Care shouldn't be for profit.

 

[California Girl]

Have you looked at Congress' approval ratings lately? Let me clue you in on something... It's not Dems the people of this country are sick of, it's the extremist ideology of the right trying to "make Obama a one-term president" by stonewalling and/or tying tying bullshit ideological legislation in with needed legislation so that Dems in Congress back away from it. That way they can throw their hands up in the air and say "the Dems aren't compromising with us".

I think the right are going to find this out come November that they are causing their own demise.

I could be wrong... But I don't think I am.

I think you're wrong. I suspect many of our fellow Americans are sick to death of corrupt, dishonest politicians - on both sides. At least, they should be.

Well... on that? I can agree with you. The problem is, many people on both sides, especially the right(if this message board is an indication), don't like the only solution to get rid of the corruption. Publicly funded elections. Get the money out of politics and good people will actually serve our country and it's people, not themselves.

I know... I know... Money=Speech. I think that's a bullshit meme that the "conglomerate" invented to keep the status quo.

Publicly funded elections would go some small way to help, but they are only part of a solution. The main solution requires Americans to hold their politicians accountable for their actions and their words.

Currently, each side votes for their own corrupt politicians - even knowing that they are corrupt... because at least they're on the same side.... at least, they think their politicians are on their side. The politicians, of course, are not on 'our' side, they are busy lining their own pockets at our expense. But we refuse to recognize that, certainly not to hold them accountable. Just look at how wealthy our politicians are - very few of them had that kind of money when they first went into politics. Why do we never ask how they made that much money? Perhaps we don't want to know the answer.

 

[Jarhead]

What about when the hunters choose to keep more and more of the meat for themselves and the folks who prepare the meal are suffering as a result?

As far as your last paragraph? Partisan as hell, don't you think?

Actually...it is no more partisan than saying that the GOP only care about the wealthy.
But putting that aside....

It is not an issue of liberals believing in helping people remain forever unable tohelp themselves.

It is more about giving people a false sense of security.

Take my sister....(bless her liberal heart)...

She is a single mom (deadbeat x husband)
2 kids...onein college..one going in 2 years.
She owns a condo.
Has a great job.
They do not live extravagent...they live within their means...but very comfortable.

She believes "the rich" should pay m,ore in taxes and all the money should go to free healthcare for all Americans.....she believes in a government run healthcare system...

So I said to her...

"you have healthcare...yes it costs you...but you have it...your kids live comfortably....you own your own condo...you own a car...you meet your needs plus a lot more...so tell me....why do you want free healthcare?"

Her answer?

"so I dont need to weorry about paying for it"

So I reminded her that she DOES pay for it and still has a nice life for her and her girls...

And her response?

"but think of the nicer vacations I could take if I did not have the burden of health insurance"

And that, sir, is the problem with most Americans...it is not about "not having"...it is about "how much more can I get"

And that is a problem.

Well... that's not my motivation for National Health Care. My motivation is thinking about the people who CAN'T afford health care, small businesses who have to compete for employees with big business who provide it for their employees, and those who are paying for it and struggling mightily in the process. Plus, I am of the firm belief that Health Care shouldn't be for profit.

I, too, have concerns about our current healthcare system without the new law...for the reasons you cited.

However, as a correction...the small businesses do not have an issue...there are co-op plans that allow them similar costs as the large businesses.

The reason I mentioned the healthcare situation is becuase of my sisters attitude.

That happens to be the attitude of many as it pertians to the current debate of the "rich" versus the "not rich".

For example....on this board...Mr. Peepers was talking about her situation....

She makes 50K a year.
She rents an apartment in brooklyn NY for 1700 a month.
She does not have a room mate.
She HATES capitalsim in America becuase the "rich" are milking her dry....and she wants free healthcare...and she wants many other things for free....at the expense of the "rich"

SO I said to her...

"get a room mate and things will be easier for you"...and I said "move to Valley Stream NY...your commute will be about 20 minutes longer...but an appartment is half the price.

Her response?

"Why should I deal with the inconvenience of a room mate. And why should I move to Valley Stream. I like where I live"

The she said...and this really spoke volumes...

"I paid my dues. Why should I sacrifice"

Yet...she wants others to scrifice for her.

It is a serious attitude...and that is half of what those Occupy folks beluieve as well.

 

[California Girl]

What about when the hunters choose to keep more and more of the meat for themselves and the folks who prepare the meal are suffering as a result?

As far as your last paragraph? Partisan as hell, don't you think?

Actually...it is no more partisan than saying that the GOP only care about the wealthy.
But putting that aside....

It is not an issue of liberals believing in helping people remain forever unable tohelp themselves.

It is more about giving people a false sense of security.

Take my sister....(bless her liberal heart)...

She is a single mom (deadbeat x husband)
2 kids...onein college..one going in 2 years.
She owns a condo.
Has a great job.
They do not live extravagent...they live within their means...but very comfortable.

She believes "the rich" should pay m,ore in taxes and all the money should go to free healthcare for all Americans.....she believes in a government run healthcare system...

So I said to her...

"you have healthcare...yes it costs you...but you have it...your kids live comfortably....you own your own condo...you own a car...you meet your needs plus a lot more...so tell me....why do you want free healthcare?"

Her answer?

"so I dont need to weorry about paying for it"

So I reminded her that she DOES pay for it and still has a nice life for her and her girls...

And her response?

"but think of the nicer vacations I could take if I did not have the burden of health insurance"

And that, sir, is the problem with most Americans...it is not about "not having"...it is about "how much more can I get"

And that is a problem.

Well... that's not my motivation for National Health Care. My motivation is thinking about the people who CAN'T afford health care, small businesses who have to compete for employees with big business who provide it for their employees, and those who are paying for it and struggling mightily in the process. Plus, I am of the firm belief that Health Care shouldn't be for profit.

Fine and dandy - in theory. But if you take the profit out of HealthCare, where do you think the research and development will come from? Right now, US medical R&D is responsible for the vast majority of life saving care, drugs, equipment etc around the world.

Those countries who have this utopia 'universal health care' that you so desperately desire.... the reality is not as wonderful as you think it is. That's fact. I know. I live in one of those countries. Frankly, I'd never use their health care system - it's shit. I have private insurance - but I still have to contribute to their crap system.

 

[Synthaholic]

OK...OK Obama will most likely get re-elected but it will mean nothing because the Dems have no apparent strategy to retake the House and build on their majority in the Senate.

I have seen NOTHING on this MB about the races that should matter the most to the Dems which are the ones that will make their hopey changy thingy a reality. I E...CONGRESSIONAL races.

Who do you Dems support to take back the House and build super majority in the Senate?

You do realise nothing will ever get done if you don't do the hard work of giving your precious Obama a congress he can work with RIGHT????

 

[Steelplate]

I think you're wrong. I suspect many of our fellow Americans are sick to death of corrupt, dishonest politicians - on both sides. At least, they should be.

Well... on that? I can agree with you. The problem is, many people on both sides, especially the right(if this message board is an indication), don't like the only solution to get rid of the corruption. Publicly funded elections. Get the money out of politics and good people will actually serve our country and it's people, not themselves.

I know... I know... Money=Speech. I think that's a bullshit meme that the "conglomerate" invented to keep the status quo.

Publicly funded elections would go some small way to help, but they are only part of a solution. The main solution requires Americans to hold their politicians accountable for their actions and their words.

Currently, each side votes for their own corrupt politicians - even knowing that they are corrupt... because at least they're on the same side.... at least, they think their politicians are on their side. The politicians, of course, are not on 'our' side, they are busy lining their own pockets at our expense. But we refuse to recognize that, certainly not to hold them accountable. Just look at how wealthy our politicians are - very few of them had that kind of money when they first went into politics. Why do we never ask how they made that much money? Perhaps we don't want to know the answer.

You forgot to add the "idiot" at the end...

 

[Steelplate]

Actually...it is no more partisan than saying that the GOP only care about the wealthy.
But putting that aside....

It is not an issue of liberals believing in helping people remain forever unable tohelp themselves.

It is more about giving people a false sense of security.

Take my sister....(bless her liberal heart)...

She is a single mom (deadbeat x husband)
2 kids...onein college..one going in 2 years.
She owns a condo.
Has a great job.
They do not live extravagent...they live within their means...but very comfortable.

She believes "the rich" should pay m,ore in taxes and all the money should go to free healthcare for all Americans.....she believes in a government run healthcare system...

So I said to her...

"you have healthcare...yes it costs you...but you have it...your kids live comfortably....you own your own condo...you own a car...you meet your needs plus a lot more...so tell me....why do you want free healthcare?"

Her answer?

"so I dont need to weorry about paying for it"

So I reminded her that she DOES pay for it and still has a nice life for her and her girls...

And her response?

"but think of the nicer vacations I could take if I did not have the burden of health insurance"

And that, sir, is the problem with most Americans...it is not about "not having"...it is about "how much more can I get"

And that is a problem.

Well... that's not my motivation for National Health Care. My motivation is thinking about the people who CAN'T afford health care, small businesses who have to compete for employees with big business who provide it for their employees, and those who are paying for it and struggling mightily in the process. Plus, I am of the firm belief that Health Care shouldn't be for profit.

Fine and dandy - in theory. But if you take the profit out of HealthCare, where do you think the research and development will come from? Right now, US medical R&D is responsible for the vast majority of life saving care, drugs, equipment etc around the world.

Those countries who have this utopia 'universal health care' that you so desperately desire.... the reality is not as wonderful as you think it is. That's fact. I know. I live in one of those countries. Frankly, I'd never use their health care system - it's shit. I have private insurance - but I still have to contribute to their crap system.

Well... I guess the WORLD community will have to work together to fund medical innovation. Do you really think that Scientific researchers are only in it for the money? Furthermore, you don't think they'll still be compensated for their efforts? Perhaps if there were no reason to hide scientific findings and keep them secret from prying eyes... innovation will become better and faster.