GOP Counteroffer

They want to use them...they just don't want to pay for them

Do you have any Earthly clue the federal, state & local taxes, fees, licenses and tolls it takes to keep one truck on the road?

I do... it's mind boggling. Your assertion is just plain wrong.

You are not playing both sides of the fence. You say you do not need society and then say that you contribute.

No matter how much you pay in road taxes, it does not come close to the value of those roads

I never said I don't need or benefit from society... and yes, no one individual's taxes pay for a road. Not that I ever asserted that.
 
Yes it does
It has worked that way for thousands of years.

Can you point to where any of your property has been taken and given to someone else? Those who do not have any property are not expected to give any up.....Its the tax law of you can't get blood from a turnip

Uh, no, no it doesn't. By being a productive member of society my obligation is fulfilled.. unlike the moocher class who sit on their asses and whine about me not paying even more while they get income tax refunds that exceed their taxes paid.

Fuck that shit. Frankly, I'm tired of listening to people talking about "getting their taxes" and then bitching t hat I don't pay enough. This is unsustainable.

You cannot be a productive member of society without benefitting from the society as a whole. Your obligation is not filled?

Did you go to public school?
Ever used a public road?
Do you provide your own police and fire protection?
Is the water you drink clean? How about the air and your food supply?

The wealthiest Americans benefit the most from our society. They should be expected to contribute the most

Why would I go to a public school? They suck.
 
My point is that the gubmint basically takes money from party A and gives it to party B for constructions. Also, land developers very often have to build their own roads. I get what you are saying, but the bottom line is, there would be no money for any of this with out private industry. PERIOD. Gubmint produces NOTHING.
the function of government is not to produce a product.

Government has six functions:
1. Foreign Relations - Diplomacy and Defense
2. Develop business strength - Incubate small business, special research and development, such as space research, job training, unemployment insurance and more.
3. Protect and regulate the sustainable use of natural resources.
4. Enforce and regulate fair and responsible business practices. Included in this is monitoring monetary policy, giving consumer protection and regulating banking practices.
5. Determine and enforce civil laws of property and conduct. This includes the freedoms of the press, religion and rights of property.
6. Provide public goods and services for the well-being of the community as a whole, such as infrastructure, vaccination programs, disaster relief, fireworks shows, public parks, basic healthcare, subsidized housing, public education and public utilities.
(These are things that the government provides better than private business for the community at large through pooling money and resources. There are more positive externalities for society when government provides public goods and services.)

I for the most part, agree with you.

Well after reading that list I'm left wondering what Government does not do... Sell tickets to movies?
 
Define "fair share".

And what does that have to do with what I posted? Wait, I know. You're assuming that because I'm not drooling all the over the Republican proposal that I must be a liberal who just wants to punish the rich. Pretty big assumption there, spanky.

I don't like the Republican proposal because it's a piece of shit that they weren't even serious about when they wrote it. The proposal was written just to stifle their constituents and stall while they wait for Obama to hopefully break on taxes.

You can't be serious? You want to know how my wanting you to define "fair share" relates to you saying the Republican proposal is a blank piece of paper? Tit for tat. "fair share" is a nebulous fluff word Obama throws out as a peice of red meat for his supporters. You think the Republican propsal is empty and meaningless......yet you support "fair share". If you want real meaning i nthe proposal, I want real defintion of "fair share". You don't get to demand something while oferring nothing. Define it......in real terms. How much is enough from the people who already pay the bulk of the taxes while many pay nothing? Doesn't "fair share" apply across the board? How is zero a share?

What are you rambling on about. For the love of god, take off your partisan blinders and join the conversation.

I have never even mentioned anything relating to a "fair share", so why do you keep bringing it up?
 
the function of government is not to produce a product.

Government has six functions:
1. Foreign Relations - Diplomacy and Defense
2. Develop business strength - Incubate small business, special research and development, such as space research, job training, unemployment insurance and more.
3. Protect and regulate the sustainable use of natural resources.
4. Enforce and regulate fair and responsible business practices. Included in this is monitoring monetary policy, giving consumer protection and regulating banking practices.
5. Determine and enforce civil laws of property and conduct. This includes the freedoms of the press, religion and rights of property.
6. Provide public goods and services for the well-being of the community as a whole, such as infrastructure, vaccination programs, disaster relief, fireworks shows, public parks, basic healthcare, subsidized housing, public education and public utilities.
(These are things that the government provides better than private business for the community at large through pooling money and resources. There are more positive externalities for society when government provides public goods and services.)

I for the most part, agree with you.

Well after reading that list I'm left wondering what Government does not do... Sell tickets to movies?

I especially like the obligation of government to provide fireworks shows... what an essential human need!

:lol:
 
What's your point? That being a member of "society" obligates me to give up my property? Then what about the members of "society" that contribute absolutely nothing? They're magically entitled to a piece of my property? What kinda twisted thinking is that?

That's fucking stupid, really.

It's the philosophy of the "You didn't build that!" crowd
there are things the private enterprise relies on to be successful that they didnt build. its not that difficult of a concept. this includes road, bridges, railways, airports and ports. business either directly or indirectly all rely on these things to do business. none of which they build.

So every country with road, bridges, railways, airports and ports should have an economy like the USA?

Really?

North Korea and Cuba, well I can't use Cuba anymore because even they've abandoned the American Left's economic ideas, have road, bridges, railways, airports and ports, how are they doing?
 
Yes it does
It has worked that way for thousands of years.

Can you point to where any of your property has been taken and given to someone else? Those who do not have any property are not expected to give any up.....Its the tax law of you can't get blood from a turnip

Uh, no, no it doesn't. By being a productive member of society my obligation is fulfilled.. unlike the moocher class who sit on their asses and whine about me not paying even more while they get income tax refunds that exceed their taxes paid.

Fuck that shit. Frankly, I'm tired of listening to people talking about "getting their taxes" and then bitching t hat I don't pay enough. This is unsustainable.

You cannot be a productive member of society without benefitting from the society as a whole. Your obligation is not filled?

Did you go to public school?
Ever used a public road?
Do you provide your own police and fire protection?
Is the water you drink clean? How about the air and your food supply?

The wealthiest Americans benefit the most from our society. They should be expected to contribute the most

They rich do pay the most. And yet half the country pays 100% zero on a federal level and almost nothing or nothing on a state level while drawing some sort of welfare, so I think it's safe to say they use all of the things you listed and more and fail to pay their fair share. For you it was never about paying a "fair share" as you proved and prove everyday.

But it serves you as a bigot to attack a minority because it helps buy you votes (literally) for a majority. You don’t even know why you want higher taxes on “the rich.” I thought it was to pay down the deficit, now it’s to pay for roads… or healthcare… or food stamps… or to cover the growth in spending… In the end it's a scapegoat to "tax the rich" so that you can "buy the poor and middle class" with welfare, you know it, I know it and Obama/Dems sure as fuck know it.
 
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Yes it does
It has worked that way for thousands of years.

Can you point to where any of your property has been taken and given to someone else? Those who do not have any property are not expected to give any up.....Its the tax law of you can't get blood from a turnip

Uh, no, no it doesn't. By being a productive member of society my obligation is fulfilled.. unlike the moocher class who sit on their asses and whine about me not paying even more while they get income tax refunds that exceed their taxes paid.

Fuck that shit. Frankly, I'm tired of listening to people talking about "getting their taxes" and then bitching t hat I don't pay enough. This is unsustainable.

You cannot be a productive member of society without benefitting from the society as a whole. Your obligation is not filled?

Did you go to public school?
Ever used a public road?
Do you provide your own police and fire protection?
Is the water you drink clean? How about the air and your food supply?

The wealthiest Americans benefit the most from our society. They should be expected to contribute the most

Here is a little historical tax information that should rock your boat, that is if fact plays a significant role in your little world, guess who paid the majority of taxes to fund said projects and services over the past 90+ years, the upper middle class and rich. As for attending public schools, a vast majority of families in the aforementioned class of tax payers as a rule opt to make the sacrifice and send their children to private schools. love the part about "benefiting the most" apparently the disconnect between reality and fantasy is immense, for the fact remains those that demand and depend on the government the least have and continue to pay the most.
 
The wealthiest Americans benefit the most??

WOW I guess those that pay no taxes don't benefit??

They don't use the schools??

They don't use the roads??

They get no police or fire protection??

They don't have clean water or food??

Seems to me that that 49% do pretty well for themselves on the backs of the rich who pay what 70% of the FED taxes right now??

Who again isn't paying their fair share??
 
the function of government is not to produce a product.

Government has six functions:
1. Foreign Relations - Diplomacy and Defense
2. Develop business strength - Incubate small business, special research and development, such as space research, job training, unemployment insurance and more. 3. Protect and regulate the sustainable use of natural resources.
4. Enforce and regulate fair and responsible business practices. Included in this is monitoring monetary policy, giving consumer protection and regulating banking practices.
5. Determine and enforce civil laws of property and conduct. This includes the freedoms of the press, religion and rights of property.
6. Provide public goods and services for the well-being of the community as a whole, such as infrastructure, vaccination programs, disaster relief, fireworks shows, public parks, basic healthcare, subsidized housing, public education and public utilities.
(These are things that the government provides better than private business for the community at large through pooling money and resources. There are more positive externalities for society when government provides public goods and services.)

I for the most part, agree with you.

Well after reading that list I'm left wondering what Government does not do... Sell tickets to movies?

And more! Whatever they decide, just put it in there and say "these are essential functions" of the government. The crowd goes wild in anticipation of what MORE we get next.
 
It's the philosophy of the "You didn't build that!" crowd
there are things the private enterprise relies on to be successful that they didnt build. its not that difficult of a concept. this includes road, bridges, railways, airports and ports. business either directly or indirectly all rely on these things to do business. none of which they build.

So every country with road, bridges, railways, airports and ports should have an economy like the USA?

Really?

North Korea and Cuba, well I can't use Cuba anymore because even they've abandoned the American Left's economic ideas, have road, bridges, railways, airports and ports, how are they doing?


Shows what poor infrastructure does to the the ability of "job creators" to be successful

Not to mention emphasising the military over the citizens
 
The wealthiest Americans benefit the most??

WOW I guess those that pay no taxes don't benefit??

They don't use the schools??

They don't use the roads??

They get no police or fire protection??

They don't have clean water or food??

Seems to me that that 49% do pretty well for themselves on the backs of the rich who pay what 70% of the FED taxes right now??

Who again isn't paying their fair share??

it still doesnt change the fact the small businesses rely on the government to provide things that support their business that they did not directly build.
It's the philosophy of the "You didn't build that!" crowd
there are things the private enterprise relies on to be successful that they didnt build. its not that difficult of a concept. this includes road, bridges, railways, airports and ports. business either directly or indirectly all rely on these things to do business. none of which they build.

So every country with road, bridges, railways, airports and ports should have an economy like the USA?

Really?

North Korea and Cuba, well I can't use Cuba anymore because even they've abandoned the American Left's economic ideas, have road, bridges, railways, airports and ports, how are they doing?






the reason that 47% of american dont pay income tax is actually due to the republican policies of lowering tax rates and the amount of exemptions that they can take.

the only real thing that needs to change is you need to tax capital gains as ordinary income, instead of at a lower rate. this is the "welfare" that the wealthy get. it makes not sense that an individual working a job will pay an effective tax rate twice that of someone who gets the majority of their income from investing. you could leave income tax rates at the same level but simply change the way capital gains are taxed.
 
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The wealthiest Americans benefit the most??

WOW I guess those that pay no taxes don't benefit??

They don't use the schools??

They don't use the roads??

They get no police or fire protection??

They don't have clean water or food??

Seems to me that that 49% do pretty well for themselves on the backs of the rich who pay what 70% of the FED taxes right now??

Who again isn't paying their fair share??

Well ...lets look at the term "benefit the most"

Who benefits more from our roads and bridges? You, who uses them to visit grandma on Thanksgiving or a corporation who uses them to distribute all their goods and services

Who benefits more from our Military? You, who lives in a country that hasn't been invaded in 200 years or a corporation who relys on our military to maintain stability in the global markets

Who benefits more from education? You, who develops job skills or a corporation who doesn't pay for those job skills but uses them to make profit?
 
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And what does that have to do with what I posted? Wait, I know. You're assuming that because I'm not drooling all the over the Republican proposal that I must be a liberal who just wants to punish the rich. Pretty big assumption there, spanky.

I don't like the Republican proposal because it's a piece of shit that they weren't even serious about when they wrote it. The proposal was written just to stifle their constituents and stall while they wait for Obama to hopefully break on taxes.

You can't be serious? You want to know how my wanting you to define "fair share" relates to you saying the Republican proposal is a blank piece of paper? Tit for tat. "fair share" is a nebulous fluff word Obama throws out as a peice of red meat for his supporters. You think the Republican propsal is empty and meaningless......yet you support "fair share". If you want real meaning i nthe proposal, I want real defintion of "fair share". You don't get to demand something while oferring nothing. Define it......in real terms. How much is enough from the people who already pay the bulk of the taxes while many pay nothing? Doesn't "fair share" apply across the board? How is zero a share?

What are you rambling on about. For the love of god, take off your partisan blinders and join the conversation.

I have never even mentioned anything relating to a "fair share", so why do you keep bringing it up?

Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention. You don't get to claim that conservatives are acting vague on one hand without explaining the vague notions on the liberal side. So can I put you down on the side of thinking "fair share" is just a vague term used as a divisive class warfare ploy by Obama and the left?
 
Uh, no, no it doesn't. By being a productive member of society my obligation is fulfilled.. unlike the moocher class who sit on their asses and whine about me not paying even more while they get income tax refunds that exceed their taxes paid.

Fuck that shit. Frankly, I'm tired of listening to people talking about "getting their taxes" and then bitching t hat I don't pay enough. This is unsustainable.

You cannot be a productive member of society without benefitting from the society as a whole. Your obligation is not filled?

Did you go to public school?
Ever used a public road?
Do you provide your own police and fire protection?
Is the water you drink clean? How about the air and your food supply?

The wealthiest Americans benefit the most from our society. They should be expected to contribute the most

They rich do pay the most. And yet half the country pays 100% zero on a federal level and almost nothing or nothing on a state level while drawing some sort of welfare, so I think it's safe to say they use all of the things you listed and more and fail to pay their fair share. For you it was never about paying a "fair share" as you proved and prove everyday.

But it serves you as a bigot to attack a minority because it helps buy you votes (literally) for a majority. You don’t even know why you want higher taxes on “the rich.” I thought it was to pay down the deficit, now it’s to pay for roads… or healthcare… or food stamps… or to cover the growth in spending… In the end it's a scapegoat to "tax the rich" so that you can "buy the poor and middle class" with welfare, you know it, I know it and Obama/Dems sure as fuck know it.

You know, if you replace "rich or wealthy" with black, gay, Muslims, etc. the liberals would be all over you like a duch on a junebug for being a racist nazi. Why is hating and blaming the rich ok with them? :eusa_eh:
 
The wealthiest Americans benefit the most??

WOW I guess those that pay no taxes don't benefit??

They don't use the schools??

They don't use the roads??

They get no police or fire protection??

They don't have clean water or food??

Seems to me that that 49% do pretty well for themselves on the backs of the rich who pay what 70% of the FED taxes right now??

Who again isn't paying their fair share??

it still doesnt change the fact the small businesses rely on the government to provide things that support their business that they did not directly build.
there are things the private enterprise relies on to be successful that they didnt build. its not that difficult of a concept. this includes road, bridges, railways, airports and ports. business either directly or indirectly all rely on these things to do business. none of which they build.

So every country with road, bridges, railways, airports and ports should have an economy like the USA?

Really?

North Korea and Cuba, well I can't use Cuba anymore because even they've abandoned the American Left's economic ideas, have road, bridges, railways, airports and ports, how are they doing?






the reason that 47% of american dont pay income tax is actually due to the republican policies of lowering tax rates and the amount of exemptions that they can take.

the only real thing that needs to change is you need to tax capital gains as ordinary income, instead of at a lower rate. this is the "welfare" that the wealthy get. it makes not sense that an individual working a job will pay an effective tax rate twice that of someone who gets the majority of their income from investing. you could leave income tax rates at the same level but simply change the way capital gains are taxed.

Back the fuck up! I thought the Bush Tax Cuts only benefited the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. Remember all of the lefties and media making that claim for the last 4+ years? Now you want to retain them because of the benefit to the little guy? You need to pick a story and stick to it.
 
there are things the private enterprise relies on to be successful that they didnt build. its not that difficult of a concept. this includes road, bridges, railways, airports and ports. business either directly or indirectly all rely on these things to do business. none of which they build.

So every country with road, bridges, railways, airports and ports should have an economy like the USA?

Really?

North Korea and Cuba, well I can't use Cuba anymore because even they've abandoned the American Left's economic ideas, have road, bridges, railways, airports and ports, how are they doing?


Shows what poor infrastructure does to the the ability of "job creators" to be successful

Not to mention emphasising the military over the citizens

Poor Infrastructure? Really?

Wait I thought a lot of countries actually has better infrastructure that us, that we were laggards? How many different and totally conflicting stores can you guys tell?
 
You cannot be a productive member of society without benefitting from the society as a whole. Your obligation is not filled?

Did you go to public school?
Ever used a public road?
Do you provide your own police and fire protection?
Is the water you drink clean? How about the air and your food supply?

The wealthiest Americans benefit the most from our society. They should be expected to contribute the most

They rich do pay the most. And yet half the country pays 100% zero on a federal level and almost nothing or nothing on a state level while drawing some sort of welfare, so I think it's safe to say they use all of the things you listed and more and fail to pay their fair share. For you it was never about paying a "fair share" as you proved and prove everyday.

But it serves you as a bigot to attack a minority because it helps buy you votes (literally) for a majority. You don’t even know why you want higher taxes on “the rich.” I thought it was to pay down the deficit, now it’s to pay for roads… or healthcare… or food stamps… or to cover the growth in spending… In the end it's a scapegoat to "tax the rich" so that you can "buy the poor and middle class" with welfare, you know it, I know it and Obama/Dems sure as fuck know it.

You know, if you replace "rich or wealthy" with black, gay, Muslims, etc. the liberals would be all over you like a duch on a junebug for being a racist nazi. Why is hating and blaming the rich ok with them? :eusa_eh:

ding ding ding

we have a winna!!
 
The wealthiest Americans benefit the most??

WOW I guess those that pay no taxes don't benefit??

They don't use the schools??

They don't use the roads??

They get no police or fire protection??

They don't have clean water or food??

Seems to me that that 49% do pretty well for themselves on the backs of the rich who pay what 70% of the FED taxes right now??

Who again isn't paying their fair share??

it still doesnt change the fact the small businesses rely on the government to provide things that support their business that they did not directly build.
So every country with road, bridges, railways, airports and ports should have an economy like the USA?

Really?

North Korea and Cuba, well I can't use Cuba anymore because even they've abandoned the American Left's economic ideas, have road, bridges, railways, airports and ports, how are they doing?






the reason that 47% of american dont pay income tax is actually due to the republican policies of lowering tax rates and the amount of exemptions that they can take.

the only real thing that needs to change is you need to tax capital gains as ordinary income, instead of at a lower rate. this is the "welfare" that the wealthy get. it makes not sense that an individual working a job will pay an effective tax rate twice that of someone who gets the majority of their income from investing. you could leave income tax rates at the same level but simply change the way capital gains are taxed.

Back the fuck up! I thought the Bush Tax Cuts only benefited the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. Remember all of the lefties and media making that claim for the last 4+ years? Now you want to retain them because of the benefit to the little guy? You need to pick a story and stick to it.
the republican policy of lowering tax rates, increasing deductions and exemptions have pushed the lower and lower middle class into tax brackets that do not require them to pay "federal income tax" only. this does not exempt them from FICA or SSI taxes.

youre confusing 2 separate issues. you are complaining that 47% dont pay federal income taxes but are unwilling to look what has actually caused that, which is GOP tax policy. why are you complaining about getting exactly what you want which is lower taxes all around?

i have said several times on this board, that you could leave income taxes at the same level they are now and simply change the tax code to treat capital gains as ordinary income.
 

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