Good News In Iraq

[Annie]

Notice the oil progress you refered to is now gone?

Wade.

And once Sadr is gone, it will go back up. It must suck to be you, just hoping for bad news!

 

[freeandfun1]

Current oil prices are NOT being affected by what is happening in the ME. They are being affected by what is going on in Russia.

DOH!

 

[Annie]

Current oil prices are NOT being affected by what is happening in the ME. They are being affected by what is going on in Russia.

DOH!

On this issue, I think Wade is closer to the truth. Russia is pumping more oil than it can distribute. If more help were forthcoming, it might help the problem.

Excerpt:

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2004/aug/17/yehey/opinion/20040817opi2.html

Concerns about terrorist attacks on oil production facilities in Saudi Arabia and Iraq have increased the speculative demand for oil. Continuing political instability in Venezuela, where President Hugo Chavez faces a recall election, has added to nervousness in the markets.

 

[wade]

And once Sadr is gone, it will go back up. It must suck to be you, just hoping for bad news!

And according to the report I read, it will now be "at least a year" before Iraqi oil production levels reach 50% of pre-war levels.

The problem is the oil pipeline and refineries are just such easy targets to hit, and so very hard to defend.

"Expecting" is different from "hoping" Kathi. I do not hope these things will happen, but I do not fool myself with wishful thinking when I know better.

As long as you and Americans in general, expecially in the government, pretend that the Arabs are just like us deep down inside, and therefore can be reasoned with, things are nearly hopeless.

And note that I never said anything about the Iraq situation being the cause of high oil prices. The problem is ever increasing demand for oil in general. The oil issue w.r.t. Iraq had to do with Iraq's future stability, not the world price of oil.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

And according to the report I read, it will now be "at least a year" before Iraqi oil production levels reach 50% of pre-war levels.

The problem is the oil pipeline and refineries are just such easy targets to hit, and so very hard to defend.

"Expecting" is different from "hoping" Kathi. I do not hope these things will happen, but I do not fool myself with wishful thinking when I know better.

As long as you and Americans in general, expecially in the government, pretend that the Arabs are just like us deep down inside, and therefore can be reasoned with, things are nearly hopeless.

And note that I never said anything about the Iraq situation being the cause of high oil prices. The problem is ever increasing demand for oil in general. The oil issue w.r.t. Iraq had to do with Iraq's future stability, not the world price of oil.

Wade.

You are being disingenuous, Wade. You are hoping for bad news. But never the matter, to deal with 'knowing better' arguement, I think that Sadr's days are numbered, and just like the calls of 'US won't turn over sovereignty, this too will fail to live up to the hype. My best guess is that Iraq will surpass pre-invasion #'s within the next 6 months.

Oil demand would account for the price of $33-35 per barrel, not nearly $50, that is terrorism.

 

[wade]

You are being disingenuous, Wade. You are hoping for bad news. But never the matter, to deal with 'knowing better' arguement, I think that Sadr's days are numbered, and just like the calls of 'US won't turn over sovereignty, this too will fail to live up to the hype. My best guess is that Iraq will surpass pre-invasion #'s within the next 6 months.

Why would I hope for bad news? That is just silly.

You're probably right Sadr's days are probably numbered. But, another radical will replace him within a few months.

And once "coalition" forces are withdrawn to any significant extent, their will be bloody civil war and a religious fundamentalist regime will rise to power in Iraq. The Iraqi people will never really support any govenment that they see as cooperative with the USA.

And of course, you were expecting the Iraqi oil production would surpass pre-war levels in the next couple of months just a week ago...

You just have faith in the Iraqi peoples ability to see reason as we see reason, I do not.

Wade.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Why would I hope for bad news? That is just silly.

You're probably right Sadr's days are probably numbered. But, another radical will replace him within a few months.

And once "coalition" forces are withdrawn to any significant extent, their will be bloody civil war and a religious fundamentalist regime will rise to power in Iraq. The Iraqi people will never really support any govenment that they see as cooperative with the USA.

And of course, you were expecting the Iraqi oil production would surpass pre-war levels in the next couple of months just a week ago...

You just have faith in the Iraqi peoples ability to see reason as we see reason, I do not.

Wade.

Wade, I suppose you see the many people in Iran who are sick of the mullahs are just as stupid and unable to see reason as well?

Why do you condemn the Iraqis before giving them a chance to develop a comparatively free society? The system they finally come up with may not be exactly like ours, but it will hopefully be better than Saddam or the grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Or are you implying that we will forever be at odds with all Arabs?

 

[jescol]

**edited by moderator to add link** http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi...08/21/iraqs_air_force_launches_first_flights/

Posted by: Editor on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:06 AM

By TODD PITMAN
Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's new air force took to the skies this week for the first time since the U.S. invaded last year and disbanded the country's armed forces, the U.S. military said.

Iraqi pilots on Wednesday flew two Seabird Seeker SB7L-360 reconnaissance aircraft on what the U.S. military described as "limited operations missions intended to protect infrastructure facilities and Iraq's borders."


The two light reconnaissance planes are fitted with surveillance systems that can transmit live video images to ground forces. They are the first of a fleet that will eventually number 10 light aircraft of "similar capability,
" the statement said.


Coalition forces and neighboring Jordan have been training Iraq's 162-member air force, which is expected to grow to about 500 by December 2004.


Former President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) invested a huge portion of the country's oil wealth to equip his air force during the 1980-88 war with Iran. At its height in the late 1980s, it listed nearly 750 combat aircraft, including Soviet MiGs and Sukhois and French Mirage fighters.


In the 1990s, Iraq's air force fell apart due to two wars with the United States and a dozen years of international sanctions.


British military officials helping form the new force are focusing on map-reading and navigation.


"The old air force had previously placed more of an emphasis on getting airborne before receiving direction from the ground on operational details and destinations," the statement said.

 

[wade]

Or are you implying that we will forever be at odds with all Arabs?

I'm saying the Islamic culture will never appreciate or respect western style democracy. They will hate us for forcing it upon them. Yes it is silly, but they are not rational by our standards.

Wade.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

I'm saying the Islamic culture will never appreciate or respect western style democracy. They will hate us for forcing it upon them. Yes it is silly, but they are not rational by our standards.

Wade.

So what's your answer vis a vis Muslims/Arabs and "the west"?

 

[CSM]

Notice the oil progress you refered to is now gone?

Wade.

New York Times
August 24, 2004

Oil Prices Keep Falling As Iraq Resumes Flow


LONDON, Aug. 23 (Reuters) - Highflying oil prices eased for a second session on Monday as Iraq resumed exports from both its northern and southern outlets after a lengthy disruption.

United States light crude for October, the new benchmark, fell 67 cents to end at $46.05 a barrel. The expiring September contract lost 84 cents on Friday as traders took profits from a record run that brought prices within 60 cents of the $50 mark.

Brent crude in London fell 51 cents, to $43.03 a barrel. Before Monday, prices in the United States set records in all but one of the previous 16 sessions.

Prices slipped as Iraq restarted a pipeline from its northern fields after a three-month halt and resumed full exports through its southern terminals for the first time in two weeks.

Iraq resumed pumping crude oil along its northern Kirkuk pipeline to the Turkish Mediterranean port Ceyhan. Iraq last sold oil pumped through Kirkuk in late May.

The authorities also reopened the main export pipeline in southern Iraq on Monday after deploying United States-backed Iraqi national guardsmen to protect oil operations in the region.

Flows from southern gulf terminals were restored to normal levels of around two million barrels a day. They had been running at around half normal levels since Aug. 9, after a sabotage attack.

Reduced flows from Iraq and concern that the financial turmoil at Russia's top producer, Yukos, could disrupt supplies have helped drive up oil prices $10 since the end of June. Rapid growth in demand has left the oil industry with little spare capacity to make up for disruptions.

Yukos on Monday cut its forecast for oil output this year by 4.5 percent and said it would reduce capital expenditures because of its dispute with the government.

 

[MtnBiker]

Why would I hope for bad news? That is just silly.

You are hoping that this type of news politically puts Kerry in a good position and Bush in a bad position for the election. You are quite transparent.

 

[wade]

So what's your answer vis a vis Muslims/Arabs and "the west"?

First we have to offer them some assurance that we do not wish to destroy their culture. We need to accept that Islam will always oppose having it's people live under a western style democracy.

Second, we need to convince them that if they force the issue, we can and will destroy their culture.

Wade.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

First we have to offer them some assurance that we do not wish to destroy their culture. We need to accept that Islam will always oppose having it's people live under a western style democracy.

Second, we need to convince them that if they force the issue, we can and will destroy their culture.

Wade.

Then why do they keep moving en masse to Western countries and trying to impose their lifestyle/culture on us? I agree with your assesment, but it is moronic in a sense. "We don't want to live under western style democracy, but we will move to the west".

 

[wade]

Then why do they keep moving en masse to Western countries and trying to impose their lifestyle/culture on us? I agree with your assesment, but it is moronic in a sense. "We don't want to live under western style democracy, but we will move to the west".

Money. They want to move here and make money. I some cases, they want freedom from the constraints of Islam as well, at at least those within whatever specific country they are from. Remember, Islamic sects treat one another badly, and differ on their specific beliefs about what is central to being a Moslim.

Wade.

 

[freeandfun1]

Money. They want to move here and make money. I some cases, they want freedom from the constraints of Islam as well, at at least those within whatever specific country they are from. Remember, Islamic sects treat one another badly, and differ on their specific beliefs about what is central to being a Moslim.

Wade.

So let me get this right. They don't want to live in a western democracy for religious reasons, but they do for money reasons while holding on to their religious beliefs. Bullshit.

First off, the lust for money is their first step in moving away from their "religion" so that shoots down that idea.

Secondly, it is the western style that allows them the access to make the money they appear to be lusting for.

Everybody needs to get their heads out of the sand, stop focusing strictly on the Christian versions of the End Times and start looking at the Muslim version.

In the Muslim version, Allah cannot come back unti the world is converted to Islam. At least Christianity allows for a battle between those that believe and those who don't. Islam says we all MUST convert.

They are coming here strickly as a way to EXPAND their religion so that some day Allah will come back.

 

[freeandfun1]

First we have to offer them some assurance that we do not wish to destroy their culture. We need to accept that Islam will always oppose having it's people live under a western style democracy.

Second, we need to convince them that if they force the issue, we can and will destroy their culture.

Wade.

When have we tried destroying their culture?

 

[wade]

When have we tried destroying their culture?

We do it by introducing our ways to their people, by showing them alternatives.

You may be right, their goal might be to come here to expand their religion, but I think those that come here are mostly the less faithful who just want a better life.

Wade.

 

[Annie]

We do it by introducing our ways to their people, by showing them alternatives.

You may be right, their goal might be to come here to expand their religion, but I think those that come here are mostly the less faithful who just want a better life.

Wade.

ever hear of www?