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(Florida Lawmaker says its time to put the "punitive" back into capital punishment)
"TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) Saying it's time to stop letting convicted killers "get off that easy," a Florida state lawmaker wants to use firing squads or the electric chair for those on death row.
Rep. Brad Drake filed a bill this week that would end the use of lethal injection in Florida executions. Instead, those with a death sentence would choose between electrocution or a firing squad.
Drake, a Republican, said the idea came to him after having a conversation with a constituent at a Waffle House over the legal battles associated with the Sept. 28 execution of Manuel Valle.
Valle's lawyers tried to stop the execution by arguing that a new lethal drug cocktail would cause him pain and therefore constitute cruel and unusual punishment. Courts, however, rejected that argument and let the execution go forward.
But Drake said the person at the restaurant questioned why death row inmates should even be allowed to die by lethal injection. Drake said he agreed and decided to sponsor the bill that would mandate a switch. The GOP-controlled Florida Legislature will consider the bill during the 2012 session that starts in January.
He said government is spending too much time listening to advocacy groups and instead should put in place a death sentence that forces convicted murderers to contemplate their fates.
Lethal injection just allows a person to die in their sleep while a firing squad or electrocution would force death row inmates to think about their punishment "every morning," Drake said."
Fla. lawmaker wants to bring back firing squads - Yahoo! News
As long as the alleged criminals are convicted on more than just circumstantial evidence, I have no problem. I have always thought it might help society if murderers know they will be executed in the very same manner they took out their victims.
That would be far too easy on the criminal. How many times does a murderer kill his victim by capturing them, giving them a lengthy trial, convicting them, sentencing them to death and then putting them through a lengthy appeal period, setting an execution date, postponing it a number of times, and then, after the passage of years (sometimes a decade or more), EVERY SINGLE DAY OF WHICH THE VICTIM IS MADE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO DIE, the deed is finally done.
If you want "death by equal method," take that into account. At least murder victims generally have death thrust upon them relatively quickly and almost always by surprise.
(Florida Lawmaker says its time to put the "punitive" back into capital punishment)
"TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) Saying it's time to stop letting convicted killers "get off that easy," a Florida state lawmaker wants to use firing squads or the electric chair for those on death row.
Rep. Brad Drake filed a bill this week that would end the use of lethal injection in Florida executions. Instead, those with a death sentence would choose between electrocution or a firing squad.
Drake, a Republican, said the idea came to him after having a conversation with a constituent at a Waffle House over the legal battles associated with the Sept. 28 execution of Manuel Valle.
Valle's lawyers tried to stop the execution by arguing that a new lethal drug cocktail would cause him pain and therefore constitute cruel and unusual punishment. Courts, however, rejected that argument and let the execution go forward.
But Drake said the person at the restaurant questioned why death row inmates should even be allowed to die by lethal injection. Drake said he agreed and decided to sponsor the bill that would mandate a switch. The GOP-controlled Florida Legislature will consider the bill during the 2012 session that starts in January.
He said government is spending too much time listening to advocacy groups and instead should put in place a death sentence that forces convicted murderers to contemplate their fates.
Lethal injection just allows a person to die in their sleep while a firing squad or electrocution would force death row inmates to think about their punishment "every morning," Drake said."
Fla. lawmaker wants to bring back firing squads - Yahoo! News
I believe certain types of criminal offenders, such as violent predators, repetitive child molesters, repetitive rapists, etc., are irremedial menaces to society and once identified should be exterminated. The method should be left to discretion of the victims, their wards or survivors.I was reading some threads in this forum, when I stumbled here. Just a while ago, before I came here, I read an article entitled "Florida bill would bring back death by firing squad". Florida Rep. Brad Drake desires the state's system of capital punishment to ramp it up from lethal cocktail. He has released Florida HB 325, a bill that would bring firing squads or the electric chair back to death row. Convicts would be allowed to choose between either of these replacements for the narcotic cocktail. I believe that capital punishment permanently removes the worst criminals from society, therefore, it proves to be safer for us than long term or permanent incarceration. Why? Because dead criminals cannot commit any further crimes, either within prison or after escaping or after being released from it. But we must also consider that criminals are REAL PEOPLE too who have life and have all other emotions that the rest of us are capable of feeling. Now, do you think pronouncing a death sentence will be a better penalty to taper off heinous crimes?
Harsh, Mikey....harsh!
But ya' got my vote.
I believe certain types of criminal offenders, such as violent predators, repetitive child molesters, repetitive rapists, etc., are irremedial menaces to society and once identified should be exterminated. The method should be left to discretion of the victims, their wards or survivors.
Harsh, Mikey....harsh!
But ya' got my vote.
Personally, I think it's pathetic to get all emotional about the DP. Just execute them. End of. No need for creativity and coming up with the most inhumane punishment imaginable. That is childish.
Harsh, Mikey....harsh!
But ya' got my vote.
Personally, I think it's pathetic to get all emotional about the DP. Just execute them. End of. No need for creativity and coming up with the most inhumane punishment imaginable. That is childish.
Ya' know, you are probably correct...
...but sometimes I like childish.
I'd like to see the death penalty carried out in the manner specified by the perpetrator...the same way that he or she killed.
I can't defend it, but it would make me feel better...you know, the old 'give closure.'
'Course, the SCOTUS is probably too adult.....
I intend to address your points from the previous post....but you need to know....I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal. The problem is that the toxic conservative media has convinced it's victims that anyone who isn't a pro war, anti abortion, anti gay marriage christian is not a conservative.Liberals can extend a lot of sympathy over 7,000 innocent deaths. That's what they want, more feelings.
Las Vegas has a case right now, Javier Raghetti. He's 19. He kidnapped, raped, and tortured a 15 year old girl, then set her on fire. He's raped and tortured before. Libs are screaming because he's facing the death penalty. He took the life of someone's daughter but he's someone's son and it's not fair (that word again FAIR) that he should die.
It's fair to all the girls he would kill if he got the chance. Nor any other victim either.
We're on the same page, Tipsy...
and I think you put your finger....paw....on a very important point.
For folks on the left, feeling passes for knowing....and emotion is coin of the realm.
The right, on the other paw....is more logic, thought-based...as the old saying goes:
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”
Winston Churchill
Expecting complete objectivity from our legal process will doom you to a constant state of dissapointment. I'm not saying it isn't a noble goal, but the problem is that humans are involved...and because many self described conservatives tend to see things black and white, and don't do well with complex issues, your opinion is a formula for resentments.Personally, I think it's pathetic to get all emotional about the DP. Just execute them. End of. No need for creativity and coming up with the most inhumane punishment imaginable. That is childish.
Ya' know, you are probably correct...
...but sometimes I like childish.
I'd like to see the death penalty carried out in the manner specified by the perpetrator...the same way that he or she killed.
I can't defend it, but it would make me feel better...you know, the old 'give closure.'
'Course, the SCOTUS is probably too adult.....
'Closure' is crap. It's based on bullshit to allow people to whine. The DP is a punishment. End of. There is no need to get all emotional about it. It is part of our justice system. Nothing more. There is no need to allow emotion into the legal process. In fact, it's usually a very bad idea to allow emotion into the law.
Personally, I think it's pathetic to get all emotional about the DP. Just execute them. End of. No need for creativity and coming up with the most inhumane punishment imaginable. That is childish.
Ya' know, you are probably correct...
...but sometimes I like childish.
I'd like to see the death penalty carried out in the manner specified by the perpetrator...the same way that he or she killed.
I can't defend it, but it would make me feel better...you know, the old 'give closure.'
'Course, the SCOTUS is probably too adult.....
'Closure' is crap. It's based on bullshit to allow people to whine. The DP is a punishment. End of. There is no need to get all emotional about it. It is part of our justice system. Nothing more. There is no need to allow emotion into the legal process. In fact, it's usually a very bad idea to allow emotion into the law.
I intend to address your points from the previous post....but you need to know....I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal. The problem is that the toxic conservative media has convinced it's victims that anyone who isn't a pro war, anti abortion, anti gay marriage christian is not a conservative.Liberals can extend a lot of sympathy over 7,000 innocent deaths. That's what they want, more feelings.
Las Vegas has a case right now, Javier Raghetti. He's 19. He kidnapped, raped, and tortured a 15 year old girl, then set her on fire. He's raped and tortured before. Libs are screaming because he's facing the death penalty. He took the life of someone's daughter but he's someone's son and it's not fair (that word again FAIR) that he should die.
It's fair to all the girls he would kill if he got the chance. Nor any other victim either.
We're on the same page, Tipsy...
and I think you put your finger....paw....on a very important point.
For folks on the left, feeling passes for knowing....and emotion is coin of the realm.
The right, on the other paw....is more logic, thought-based...as the old saying goes:
If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.
Winston Churchill
Too many people forget that monolithic outlooks like this are not a tradition in the GOP or among Conservatives.....it's merely a GOP strategy to keep the southern and midwestern vote.
I've been working on a unifying theory about what makes a conservative or a liberal.I intend to address your points from the previous post....but you need to know....I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal. The problem is that the toxic conservative media has convinced it's victims that anyone who isn't a pro war, anti abortion, anti gay marriage christian is not a conservative.We're on the same page, Tipsy...
and I think you put your finger....paw....on a very important point.
For folks on the left, feeling passes for knowing....and emotion is coin of the realm.
The right, on the other paw....is more logic, thought-based...as the old saying goes:
If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.
Winston Churchill
Too many people forget that monolithic outlooks like this are not a tradition in the GOP or among Conservatives.....it's merely a GOP strategy to keep the southern and midwestern vote.
"I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal."
Sorry if I suggested same....wasn't meant!
I thought we were bandying about the concept of the death penalty.
But, you open a different question, one which I would love to explore....conservative views....and, prehaps, liberal.
I've been working on a unifying theory about what makes a conservative or a liberal.I intend to address your points from the previous post....but you need to know....I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal. The problem is that the toxic conservative media has convinced it's victims that anyone who isn't a pro war, anti abortion, anti gay marriage christian is not a conservative.
Too many people forget that monolithic outlooks like this are not a tradition in the GOP or among Conservatives.....it's merely a GOP strategy to keep the southern and midwestern vote.
"I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal."
Sorry if I suggested same....wasn't meant!
I thought we were bandying about the concept of the death penalty.
But, you open a different question, one which I would love to explore....conservative views....and, prehaps, liberal.
The closest I've come is the notion that conservatives value tradition and are less likely to embrace change as compared to thier liberal counterparts. From a historical standpoint that doesn't hold up. I've also guessed that people who vote Republican are conservatives, and people who vote Democratic are liberals, but once again.
While I can't come up with a quinessential "conservative" that represents 2011 conservative media approved conservatism.....I have found someone who represents 2011 liberalism. John Stuart Mill. John Stuart Mill - Papers and essays on his philosophy
more to come...busy today!
Thanks for sharing PC.....you always post so much that I want to address, but it's busy season here at the ranch.I've been working on a unifying theory about what makes a conservative or a liberal."I'm neither a lefty, nor a liberal."
Sorry if I suggested same....wasn't meant!
I thought we were bandying about the concept of the death penalty.
But, you open a different question, one which I would love to explore....conservative views....and, prehaps, liberal.
The closest I've come is the notion that conservatives value tradition and are less likely to embrace change as compared to thier liberal counterparts. From a historical standpoint that doesn't hold up. I've also guessed that people who vote Republican are conservatives, and people who vote Democratic are liberals, but once again.
While I can't come up with a quinessential "conservative" that represents 2011 conservative media approved conservatism.....I have found someone who represents 2011 liberalism. John Stuart Mill. John Stuart Mill - Papers and essays on his philosophy
more to come...busy today!
I've been working, refining this since I came to this board:
1) Conservatives believe that there are moral truths, right and wrong, and that these truths are permanent. The result of infracting these truths will be atrocities and social disaster. Liberals believe in a privatization of morality so complete that no code of conduct is generally accepted, practically to the point of do what you can get away with. These beliefs are aimed at the gratification of appetites and exhibit anarchistic impulses.
2) Conservatives believe that custom and tradition result in individuals living in peace. Law is custom and precedent. Liberals are destroyers of custom and convention. To a conservative, change should be gradual, as the new society is often inferior to the old. We build on the ideas and experience of our ancestors. The species is wiser than the individual (Burke).
3) Liberals are impulsive, and imprudent. They believe in quick changes, and risk new abuses worse than the evils that they would sweep away, since remedies are usually not simple. Plato said that prudence is the mark of the statesman. There should be a balance between permanence and change, while liberals see progress as some mythical direction for society.
4) Conservatives believe in the principle of variety, while liberal perspectives result in a narrowing uniformity. Conservatives believe in choice of healthcare, education, religion, and various other areas. Under conservative principles, there will be differences in class, material condition and other inequalities. Equality will be of opportunity, not necessarily of result. The only uniformity will be before the law. Society will not be perfect. Consider the results of the rule of ideologues of the last century.
5) Freedom and property are linked. Private property results in a more stable and productive society. Private property and retaining the fruits of ones labor has been proven successful from the Puritans Bradford, to the Stakhanovite Revolution!
6) Conservatives believe in voluntary community and charity, based on duties to each other, with the assumption that each person must do whatever he could to avoid requiring assistance, as opposed to involuntary collectivism, as in let the government do it.. Burke's understanding that the "little platoon" - family, neighborhood, professional organizations etc - is the "first principle" of society has been consistently identified as providing the necessary inspiration for conservativism. And explains why conservatives give more to charity than liberals.
7) Conservatives view people as both good and bad, and for this reason believe on restraints on power, as in checks and balances, while liberals see power as a force for good, as long as the power is in their hands.
8) Liberals and Conservatives differ in the way to proceed. For Conservatives, data informs policy. (More Guns, Less Crime and Mass murderers apparently cant read, since they are constantly shooting up gun-free zones.- Coulter) We use Conservative principles to the best of our ability, but when confronting new and original venues, we believe in testing, and analysis of the results of the tests. For liberals, feeling passes for knowing; it is based on emotion often to the exclusion of thinking.
9) Conservatives view results differently from Liberals. Liberals respond to success and material wealth with envy and hostility, encourage class warfare and an attempt to obviate any chance that it might happen again. The exception is when it is a Liberal with the wealth. Conservatives see success as the validation and culmination of the application of Conservative principles, most prominently Liberty.
10) Since Liberals see their view as a higher calling that that of Conservatives, they mistakenly believe that it is entirely appropriate for then to use, not logic, facts, nor accepted debating techniques, but ad hominem attacks on the physical appearance, personal history, or imaginary mental defects. Notice how the Liberal replaces intellect with emotion. This is, no doubt, based on a medieval concept of recognizing witches and demons. In fact, Liberals attempt to deal with opponents in similar fashion: recall Clarence Thomas High Tech Lynching.
