Good News. Air Force Tanker Deal looked at.

[rdean]

EADS gave John McCain money for his presidential campaign for the first time in the company’s history for his role in awarding them a 35 billion dollar contract for Air Tankers.

The contract has options to take it to 100 billion and the tankers would be built in France. But after a review of improprieties and the fact the 22 EADS (Airbus) executives have been accused of wrongdoing, the Air Force stopped the contracts for further review.

It would have been the first time in our nation's history that part of our Air Force would be "outsourced".

In this global economy, is the Air Force wrong?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us/politics/12tanker.html

Air Force Back In Tanker Deal

 

[Xenophon]

The planes would have been built here, by Lockheed Martin, and this stupidity cost THOUSANDS of US jobs.

 

[rdean]

The planes would have been built here, by Lockheed Martin, and this stupidity cost THOUSANDS of US jobs.

Then that's terrible. Can I look at a link?

 

[Xenophon]

The planes would have been built here, by Lockheed Martin, and this stupidity cost THOUSANDS of US jobs.

Then that's terrible. Can I look at a link?

My memory is failing, it was Northrup Grumman:

Northrop Grumman-EADS said the contract would create 25,000 jobs involving 230 suppliers in 49 states.

The Northrop Grumman-EADS tanker is based on the newer Airbus A330 airframe. The planes are built in Toulouse, France, with final assembly planned for a new plant in Mobile, Ala.

Airbus, Northrop Grumman win Air Force tanker contract | McClatchy

The Boeing plane is smaller and less capable and will cost more, in short, the tax payers are ripped off again by the courts.

 

[rdean]

The planes would have been built here, by Lockheed Martin, and this stupidity cost THOUSANDS of US jobs.

Yea, I went and looked it up. It didn't make sense. If it's awarded to France, then where would jobs here come from? They would actually make tens of thousands of new jobs in France, but the sections would be "assembled" here. It would bring "possibly" 7,000 assembly jobs here.

I don't know about you, but I would rather have the 7,000 assembly jobs as well as the tens of thousands of other jobs. Why settle for peanuts?

Remember, EADS said it would create 25,000 jobs here, but of course, they would say that. They want the contract.

Congress in turmoil over Air Force tanker decision | Reuters

You know, I can never understand why Republicans defend EADS so much. That company has had screw up after screw up. Add all the probems with the 380. You know the parts arrived for assembly and nothing fit. They lost two years and six billion right off the bat. Then a hundred orders were canceled and given to Boeing. They only stay in business because the governments of Europe subsidize them.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar2009/gb20090317_895512.htm

 

[Xenophon]

See what I posted above that, Boeing has been spreading the bull for a long time on this, trying to foster their gold brick on the Air Force.

 

[Mr. H.]

What will they do with the fleet of KC135's?

 

[rdean]

See what I posted above that, Boeing has been spreading the bull for a long time on this, trying to foster their gold brick on the Air Force.

Sorry man, your job "estimates" come from the company providing the contract. You might want to check out the links I added.

It's like someone saying, "Buy this car. You can trust me. You don't need to have it checked. I'm honest." It might be a good idea to do a little study first.

 

[rdean]

What will they do with the fleet of KC135's?

Aren't they like really old?

 

[Oddball]

What will they do with the fleet of KC135's?

Beer cans.

 

[Xenophon]

See what I posted above that, Boeing has been spreading the bull for a long time on this, trying to foster their gold brick on the Air Force.

Sorry man, your job "estimates" come from the company providing the contract. You might want to check out the links I added.

It's like someone saying, "Buy this car. You can trust me. You don't need to have it checked. I'm honest." It might be a good idea to do a little study first.

Yours are coming for Boeing and the senators that want the jobs for their states, you might want to take that into account.

 

[rdean]

See what I posted above that, Boeing has been spreading the bull for a long time on this, trying to foster their gold brick on the Air Force.

Sorry man, your job "estimates" come from the company providing the contract. You might want to check out the links I added.

It's like someone saying, "Buy this car. You can trust me. You don't need to have it checked. I'm honest." It might be a good idea to do a little study first.

Yours are coming for Boeing and the senators that want the jobs for their states, you might want to take that into account.

Who would you rather trust? Americans or France?

Besides, it's only common sense. Making something from nothing is better than simple assembly, right?

 

[Oddball]

There's nothing simple about assembling a 100+ ton jet airplane.

 

[rdean]

There's nothing simple about assembling a 100+ ton jet airplane.

Just one example:

Wire harness:

Compared to actually making each and every wire harness from bales of wire, terminals, wire ties, conduit, insulation, lead lists and schematics, and then trouble shooting, yes, it's simple.

You see, that's the difference. If France made the wire harness, it would come here already assembled with all the parts I listed above. How long do you think it takes to make a wire harness compared to fastening it inside the plane and connecting the terminals?

Much better to make the wire harness here. It's the difference between a dozen jobs and a thousand jobs.

Now, imagine every assembly and sub-assembly is like that. The engine would come already assembled. The landing gear, the fuselage, the wings, the cockpit. All ready to be snapped together.

By doing the final assembly here, you get past all kinds of taxes and tariffs, but the bulk of the jobs would be over there.

I can't believe Americans would want the 19 out of 20 jobs to be in France. Is it you guys don't understand how manufacturing works? When you build a landing gear, every single piston, nut, bolt, gasket, has to be "made". Materials have to be created and tested for everything from stress and fatigue and the environment to applied fire science. You want all those jobs in France?

 

[bodecea]

What will they do with the fleet of KC135's?

Aren't they like really old?

Just about as old as the B-52s still out there.

 

[Oddball]

There's nothing simple about assembling a 100+ ton jet airplane.

Just one example:

Wire harness:

Compared to actually making each and every wire harness from bales of wire, terminals, wire ties, conduit, insulation, lead lists and schematics, and then trouble shooting, yes, it's simple.

You see, that's the difference. If France made the wire harness, it would come here already assembled with all the parts I listed above. How long do you think it takes to make a wire harness compared to fastening it inside the plane and connecting the terminals?

Much better to make the wire harness here. It's the difference between a dozen jobs and a thousand jobs.

Now, imagine every assembly and sub-assembly is like that. The engine would come already assembled. The landing gear, the fuselage, the wings, the cockpit. All ready to be snapped together.

By doing the final assembly here, you get past all kinds of taxes and tariffs, but the bulk of the jobs would be over there.

I can't believe Americans would want the 19 out of 20 jobs to be in France. Is it you guys don't understand how manufacturing works? When you build a landing gear, every single piston, nut, bolt, gasket, has to be "made". Materials have to be created and tested for everything from stress and fatigue and the environment to applied fire science. You want all those jobs in France?

I can imagine an awful lot, and still not come up with that scenario.

More likely is that many of the parts would in fact be made in America, under license.

 

[rdean]

There's nothing simple about assembling a 100+ ton jet airplane.

Just one example:

Wire harness:

Compared to actually making each and every wire harness from bales of wire, terminals, wire ties, conduit, insulation, lead lists and schematics, and then trouble shooting, yes, it's simple.

You see, that's the difference. If France made the wire harness, it would come here already assembled with all the parts I listed above. How long do you think it takes to make a wire harness compared to fastening it inside the plane and connecting the terminals?

Much better to make the wire harness here. It's the difference between a dozen jobs and a thousand jobs.

Now, imagine every assembly and sub-assembly is like that. The engine would come already assembled. The landing gear, the fuselage, the wings, the cockpit. All ready to be snapped together.

By doing the final assembly here, you get past all kinds of taxes and tariffs, but the bulk of the jobs would be over there.

I can't believe Americans would want the 19 out of 20 jobs to be in France. Is it you guys don't understand how manufacturing works? When you build a landing gear, every single piston, nut, bolt, gasket, has to be "made". Materials have to be created and tested for everything from stress and fatigue and the environment to applied fire science. You want all those jobs in France?

I can imagine an awful lot, and still not come up with that scenario.

More likely is that many of the parts would in fact be made in America, under license.

I give up. I know how manufacturing works since I've been doing it for 30 years.

The company I work for gets equipment from Germany. The final assembly is done here. What is final assembly? This company installs PC boards and a display. The unit is then tested and sold as "Made in America". But the unit comes already wired and assembled. That's how planes would be built here. Since the parts come in, can't be "plugged in" and turned on, it's considered "parts". Even though its 90% assembled, it's still considered "parts".

Just curious. What scenario would you come up with? Believe me, I would be interested in knowing. And just curious. If the parts are made here, is the design also made here? What would they do in Europe if everything is designed, manufactured and assembled here? Why bid for the job at all?