Goliath's name found in archaeological dig

[Powerman]

Your analytical skills are horrible. You have a very hard time with comparisons and causes.

IF the bible portrayed these people as barbarians...

then you draw a conclusion on the statement as if it were fact.

It's not fact. You are NOT smarter than anyone else here. You are not more logical. You do not use reason and context when you argue. Frankly, you're seeming more and more like somebody who is breaking Forum Rule number 1: Must be over 14 years old to join.

(sigh)...I should ban you from the Religion forum. You're comments here are useless.

Ban me all you want. But let me spell this out for you. The bible claims that these people are barbarians. Evidence is found that says the exact opposite. This means that the bible was wrong about SOMETHING. Please tell me you've got that figured out. And you would have to be one hell of a communist to ban me from this forum.

 

[Powerman]

Well, thank you for the personal insult. May I have some more Major General?

Fact is, I served on a juy once, they voted me ,,,ahhh, whats that term? Oh well,,,,

To say it means absolutely nothing is EXTREME. You are exactly the same as anyone who would say it PROVES it. There is a middle ground, it is one of many pieces that lead us in a direction. Nothing more, nothing less.

the fact that it is on a piece of non Jewish pottery, says its not just a story created by the JEWS.

The reason I say it proves nothing either way is we have one piece of evidence perhaps supporting the bible and one that doesn't support it. I don't think there is enough evidence to conclude anything here. But you'd be a fool not to see that the evidence against the bible is much more compelling than the evidence for the bible. A guy's name on a piece of pottery doesn't prove that some story with the guy in it was true.

 

[dmp]

Ban me all you want. But let me spell this out for you. The bible claims that these people are barbarians. Evidence is found that says the exact opposite. This means that the bible was wrong about SOMETHING. Please tell me you've got that figured out. And you would have to be one hell of a communist to ban me from this forum.

Evidence has been found that you are a horse's ass, too!
(shrug)

IF the bible describes those people as 'barbarian', you don't know what barbarian means. (shrug) Barbarian does not mean 'not-smart' or 'without technology'. Saddam Hussein was a barbarian.

Me banning you from the Religion forum wouldn't be communistic - it'd be about preserving intelligent debate. You seem incapable of intelligent debate; more geared towards inflamatory remarks and personal attacks.

 

[Powerman]

Evidence has been found that you are a horse's ass, too!
(shrug)

IF the bible describes those people as 'barbarian', you don't know what barbarian means. (shrug) Barbarian does not mean 'not-smart' or 'without technology'. Saddam Hussein was a barbarian.

Me banning you from the Religion forum wouldn't be communistic - it'd be about preserving intelligent debate. You seem incapable of intelligent debate; more geared towards inflamatory remarks and personal attacks.

I'm sorry. I just don't picture most barbarians as the technological leaders of their time.

And according to dictionary.com I have a pretty good understanding of the word. Barbarians are usually of retrograde civilizations.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=barbarian

So apparently it is YOU who do not know what the word means.

 

[dmp]

I'm sorry. I just don't picture most barbarians as the technological leaders of their time.

And according to dictionary.com I have a pretty good understanding of the word. Barbarians are usually of retrograde civilizations.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=barbarian

So apparently it is YOU who do not know what the word means.

A fierce, brutal, or cruel person.

Again - Prove to us the bible labels those people as anything but A fierce, brutal, or cruel people?

 

[Abbey Normal]

A fierce, brutal, or cruel person.

Again - Prove to us the bible labels those people as anything but A fierce, brutal, or cruel people?

You are right Darin.

And fierce, brutal and cruel people still have to eat out of some kind of bowl and drink out of some kind of cup. Hence, pottery. The existence of pottery, with a name on it or not, says nothing about a civilizations fighting methods or cruelty. It says that they ate and drank. Duh.

 

[Powerman]

A fierce, brutal, or cruel person.

Again - Prove to us the bible labels those people as anything but A fierce, brutal, or cruel people?

I see you conveniently ignored the first definition of barbarians. How many fierce brutal cruel civilizations do you know that aren't retrograde. Barbarians are retrograde civilizations. Look at the Muslim world in the Middle East right now. Nothing but stupid retrograde barbarians. They certainly aren't on par technologically with us. Advanced civilizations are not barbaric. Just admit you are wrong. I've done it before.

 

[5stringJeff]

I see you conveniently ignored the first definition of barbarians. How many fierce brutal cruel civilizations do you know that aren't retrograde. Barbarians are retrograde civilizations. Look at the Muslim world in the Middle East right now. Nothing but stupid retrograde barbarians. They certainly aren't on par technologically with us. Advanced civilizations are not barbaric. Just admit you are wrong. I've done it before.

Actually, the Bible doesn't call the Philistines "barbarian." It only says that the Philistines worshipped in similar ways as the Caananite tribes, who were polytheists who pracitced human sacrifice.

 

[Powerman]

You are right Darin.

And fierce, brutal and cruel people still have to eat out of some kind of bowl and drink out of some kind of cup. Hence, pottery. The existence of pottery, with a name on it or not, says nothing about a civilizations fighting methods or cruelty. It says that they ate and drank. Duh.

Abbey I'm not referring to the piece of pottery. If you have read the article you would know that I am not. They claimed that this was an especially advanced civilization for the times according to their finds. If anything it was probably the Jews who were the barbaric idiots. Given their history in the bible it would be quite consistent.

 

[Powerman]

Actually, the Bible doesn't call the Philistines "barbarian." It only says that the Philistines worshipped in similar ways as the Caananite tribes, who were polytheists who pracitced human sacrifice.

Maybe they didn't use the word but it sounds to me as if they implied it. I don't believe the word barbarian was actually coined until new testament times.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Abbey I'm not referring to the piece of pottery. If you have read the article you would know that I am not. They claimed that this was an especially advanced civilization for the times according to their finds. If anything it was probably the Jews who were the barbaric idiots. Given their history in the bible it would be quite consistent.

I read the article. Here are the quotes you must be referring to:

"Up until now most of what we know about the Philistines is from the Bible's point of view. ... We get a very, very subjective view. They're the bad people, the barbarians, we don't get anything nice about them," he said.

"When we look at the Philistines from an archaeological point of view we get evidence of a very rich, dynamic, fascinating and advanced culture."

The problem is, these two statements do not even contradict each other. A civilization can be "bad" (brutal, immoral, cruel) and still be technologically and socially advanced. They can also be "bad" and be technologically simple. There are no moral prerequisites.

And since the pottery is the only thing the author described, it is logical to conclude that he saw it as an example of the "advanced state of the Philistine culture.

 

[5stringJeff]

Maybe they didn't use the word but it sounds to me as if they implied it. I don't believe the word barbarian was actually coined until new testament times.

In other words, 'it doesn't say it, but I'm not going to admit that I'm wrong.'

 

[Powerman]

I read the article. Here are the quotes you must be referring to:

"Up until now most of what we know about the Philistines is from the Bible's point of view. ... We get a very, very subjective view. They're the bad people, the barbarians, we don't get anything nice about them," he said.

"When we look at the Philistines from an archaeological point of view we get evidence of a very rich, dynamic, fascinating and advanced culture."

The problem is, these two statements do not even contradict each other. A civilization can be "bad" (brutal, immoral, cruel) and still be technologically and socially advanced. They can also be "bad" and be technologically simple. There are no moral prerequisites.

And since the pottery is the only thing the author described, it is logical to conclude that he saw it as an example of the "advanced state of the Philistine culture.

I don't think that the only thing they've ever found of these people was this piece of pottery. It was just the only relevant thing to the story of David and Goliath. I'm sure they have other evidence to suggest that they are technologically advanced. The point is he thinks they are technologically advanced and he himself says that the bible doesn't say such a thing. As I've stated and proved earlier one of the prerequisites of being a barbarian is that you have a retrograde primitive culture. Apparently that is not the case.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I don't think that the only thing they've ever found of these people was this piece of pottery. It was just the only relevant thing to the story of David and Goliath. I'm sure they have other evidence to suggest that they are technologically advanced. The point is he thinks they are technologically advanced and he himself says that the bible doesn't say such a thing. As I've stated and proved earlier one of the prerequisites of being a barbarian is that you have a retrograde primitive culture. Apparently that is not the case.

It doesn't matter if he finds a thousand pieces; you are missing the point. Being seen as barbaric does not preclude a civilization from being technologically advanced for it's time. I believe that tonight, for example, Nova is airing a show with evidence that Hitler was working on an Atomic bomb.

And to quote Jeff:
"Actually, the Bible doesn't call the Philistines "barbarian." It only says that the Philistines worshipped in similar ways as the Caananite tribes, who were polytheists who pracitced human sacrifice."

Are you able to prove that having barbaric religious practices renders a society unable to develop technologically? Doubtful. You are grasping at semantic straws to try to discredit the Bible.

 

[Powerman]

It doesn't matter if he finds a thousand pieces; you are missing the point. Being seen as barbaric does not preclude a civilization from being technologically advanced for it's time. I believe that tonight, for example, Nova is airing a show with evidence that Hitler was working on an Atomic bomb.

And to quote Jeff:
"Actually, the Bible doesn't call the Philistines "barbarian." It only says that the Philistines worshipped in similar ways as the Caananite tribes, who were polytheists who pracitced human sacrifice."

Are you able to prove that having barbaric religious practices renders a society unable to develop technologically? Doubtful. You are grasping at semantic straws to try to discredit the Bible.

Barbaric doesn't just mean bad. It means primitive. Hitler wasn't a barbarian. He was a sick bastard.

When you say this:
"Being seen as barbaric does not preclude a civilization from being technologically advanced for it's time."

You are simply wrong and must be called out on it. I've already provided evidence that the core definition of the word barbaric includes that the culture be primitive.

 

[Powerman]

In other words, 'it doesn't say it, but I'm not going to admit that I'm wrong.'

The guy that wrote the article that all of you are clinging to is the one that claims the bible portrayed them as barbaric. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[dmp]

I see you conveniently ignored the first definition of barbarians. How many fierce brutal cruel civilizations do you know that aren't retrograde. Barbarians are retrograde civilizations. Look at the Muslim world in the Middle East right now. Nothing but stupid retrograde barbarians. They certainly aren't on par technologically with us. Advanced civilizations are not barbaric. Just admit you are wrong. I've done it before.

I see you conveniently ignored the OTHER definitions of barbarians.

You're wrong. You are usually wrong. The sooner you admit that very important fact, the sooner you can get help.

 

[Powerman]

I see you conveniently ignored the OTHER definitions of barbarians.

You're wrong. You are usually wrong. The sooner you admit that very important fact, the sooner you can get help.

Do you think you have some intellectual foothold on me because you are the admin of a message board? What makes you right and me wrong? The author of the article himself points to the bible being wrong in that regard. So you only want to believe the part that might give the bible some credit for being accurate? At least I have the ability to take both of the items and process it at face value. One helps the bible's cause and one hurts it. This is simple shit.

 

[dmp]

Do you think you have some intellectual foothold on me because you are the admin of a message board? What makes you right and me wrong? The author of the article himself points to the bible being wrong in that regard. So you only want to believe the part that might give the bible some credit for being accurate? At least I have the ability to take both of the items and process it at face value. One helps the bible's cause and one hurts it. This is simple shit.

I have intellectual foothold on you because you are always wrong. We have fringe benefits, not french benefits. It's the leaning tower of PISA, not PIZZA, That's about it.

 

[Powerman]

I have intellectual foothold on you because you are always wrong. We have fringe benefits, not french benefits. It's the leaning tower of PISA, not PIZZA, That's about it.

Yeah you sound like the brain child of the group...."I'm always right and your always wrong"

You sound more like a condescending douchebag that can't admit that he is wrong. I clearly owned you on this and you won't fess up to it.