Going Nuclear

[slackjawed]

The election of Scott Brown to the Senate from Massachusetts could be a blessing in disguise. The American People are being held hostage to the demands of special interests by Senate rules which permit a minority, in this case not only of senators but of senators representing a minority of the American People, to block legislation by filibustering. Should Brown be elected, the Senate majority still would be Democratic and they could abolish the filibuster.

It's all explained here: Senate Dems Must "Go Nuclear"

"Going nuclear" would have an added advantage. In addtition to overcoming Republican obstruction, the Democrats would be able to disprove the rumor that they don't have a spine.

I actually agree that filibustering is bad. An up or down vote should be made for every bill. But keep in mind if the Dems were to pass a health bill that the country does not want they will be thrown out of office in the next election and the Republicans would just repeal the legislation with their own before any real change/damage takes effect.

It also doesn't address the fact that Congress passing legislation that would force private citizens to buy health care is completly unconstitutional. So the only way to truely implement a government run health system would be to amend the US Constitution, which would require the 'super majority'.

America dislikes the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats had to take the teeth out of health care reform to get by the threat of a filibuster. In the absence of that threat, it would be pure and simple and America would love. We could have universal, single-payer or, at a minimum, the public option. That's what the American People want.

Only the far left loons think the bill doesn't go far enough. The majority of people I know don't support it because it is not good for the country and it costs too much.
No matter how many times you say this Bullshit, or how authoritarian you make it sound, it's still bullshit.
Progressive is simply new code for communist.
The electorate will speak in November and prove me right. Brown's election is just a sign of things to come.

 

[Navy1960]

I'd sure like someone to come to Arizona and run on the claim, that the "healthcare bill doesn't go far enough" and see what their chances are of getting elected based on that stand. While that might work in the 8th congressional district in California it sure won't work in a lot of other parts of the nation. The fact is most Americans look at the healthcare issue from a practical standpoint. They want lower premium costs , because a lot more Americans identify with that issue than the ever changing number of uninsured. They want access to quality healthcare and more choices in healthcare. It's pretty clear that most Americans do not want to be TOLD the WILL GET healthcare , and WHERE they will get healthcare and under the current economic conditions they do not want to be overly taxed in order to do so. If some on the left are under the impression that most Americans want a heavy handed Federal Govt. approach to healthcare then by all means please run on that issue in the fall.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The election of Scott Brown to the Senate from Massachusetts could be a blessing in disguise. The American People are being held hostage to the demands of special interests by Senate rules which permit a minority, in this case not only of senators but of senators representing a minority of the American People, to block legislation by filibustering. Should Brown be elected, the Senate majority still would be Democratic and they could abolish the filibuster.

It's all explained here: Senate Dems Must "Go Nuclear"

"Going nuclear" would have an added advantage. In addtition to overcoming Republican obstruction, the Democrats would be able to disprove the rumor that they don't have a spine.

Remind us again how when the Republicans threatened this Under Bush you guys went APE SHIT BAT HOUSE CRAZY and INSISTED it would be tantamount to a criminal act by Congress?

I notice no one wants to address this.

 

[saveliberty]

The election of Scott Brown to the Senate from Massachusetts could be a blessing in disguise. The American People are being held hostage to the demands of special interests by Senate rules which permit a minority, in this case not only of senators but of senators representing a minority of the American People, to block legislation by filibustering. Should Brown be elected, the Senate majority still would be Democratic and they could abolish the filibuster.

It's all explained here: Senate Dems Must "Go Nuclear"

"Going nuclear" would have an added advantage. In addtition to overcoming Republican obstruction, the Democrats would be able to disprove the rumor that they don't have a spine.

I actually agree that filibustering is bad. An up or down vote should be made for every bill. But keep in mind if the Dems were to pass a health bill that the country does not want they will be thrown out of office in the next election and the Republicans would just repeal the legislation with their own before any real change/damage takes effect.

It also doesn't address the fact that Congress passing legislation that would force private citizens to buy health care is completly unconstitutional. So the only way to truely implement a government run health system would be to amend the US Constitution, which would require the 'super majority'.

America dislikes the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats had to take the teeth out of health care reform to get by the threat of a filibuster. In the absence of that threat, it would be pure and simple and America would love. We could have universal, single-payer or, at a minimum, the public option. That's what the American People want.

Didn't learn a thing from Massachusetts Tuesday, did you Joe? I can help you, if your open to that. Focus on the economy. That is what the public wants the government to do. No new stimulus plan, but a comprehensive plan to encourage businesses to grow. Scrap health care and cap and trade.

 

[Joe Steel]

The election of Scott Brown to the Senate from Massachusetts could be a blessing in disguise. The American People are being held hostage to the demands of special interests by Senate rules which permit a minority, in this case not only of senators but of senators representing a minority of the American People, to block legislation by filibustering. Should Brown be elected, the Senate majority still would be Democratic and they could abolish the filibuster.

It's all explained here: Senate Dems Must "Go Nuclear"

"Going nuclear" would have an added advantage. In addtition to overcoming Republican obstruction, the Democrats would be able to disprove the rumor that they don't have a spine.

Remind us again how when the Republicans threatened this Under Bush you guys went APE SHIT BAT HOUSE CRAZY and INSISTED it would be tantamount to a criminal act by Congress?

I'm fairly confident no one compared it with a criminal act. As I recall, the objections were based on a sense of fair play. Democrats only wanted to do what Republicans had done before. That wouldn't be the case now. Both sides have had their filibusters of legislatiion they didn't like. Now it's time to remove this anti-majoritarian, anti-democratic tool from the tool box.

 

[California Girl]

The election of Scott Brown to the Senate from Massachusetts could be a blessing in disguise. The American People are being held hostage to the demands of special interests by Senate rules which permit a minority, in this case not only of senators but of senators representing a minority of the American People, to block legislation by filibustering. Should Brown be elected, the Senate majority still would be Democratic and they could abolish the filibuster.

It's all explained here: Senate Dems Must "Go Nuclear"

"Going nuclear" would have an added advantage. In addtition to overcoming Republican obstruction, the Democrats would be able to disprove the rumor that they don't have a spine.

Remind us again how when the Republicans threatened this Under Bush you guys went APE SHIT BAT HOUSE CRAZY and INSISTED it would be tantamount to a criminal act by Congress?

I'm fairly confident no one compared it with a criminal act. As I recall, the objections were based on a sense of fair play. Democrats only wanted to do what Republicans had done before. That wouldn't be the case now. Both sides have had their filibusters of legislatiion they didn't like. Now it's time to remove this anti-majoritarian, anti-democratic tool from the tool box.

Actually, RGS is right... the left did say it was tantamount to a crime against the American people....

Still think the nuke option is a good plan?

 

[Joe Steel]

Remind us again how when the Republicans threatened this Under Bush you guys went APE SHIT BAT HOUSE CRAZY and INSISTED it would be tantamount to a criminal act by Congress?

I'm fairly confident no one compared it with a criminal act. As I recall, the objections were based on a sense of fair play. Democrats only wanted to do what Republicans had done before. That wouldn't be the case now. Both sides have had their filibusters of legislatiion they didn't like. Now it's time to remove this anti-majoritarian, anti-democratic tool from the tool box.

Actually, RGS is right... the left did say it was tantamount to a crime against the American people....

Still think the nuke option is a good plan?

I'll have to have a link.

 

[Joe Steel]

Majority is what the constitution specifies I think. the rest is just rules the senate made up outside of the constitution.

The Constitution requires super-majorities for a few things but allows each body to make its own rules. That means the filibuster isn't prohibited by the Constitution. However, it's inconsistent with the principles of democracy.

Now that the progressives got a severe ass kicking in MA, are youstill keen on using the nuke option?

The M&Ms blamed the Democrats for the recession, job losses and a host of other things Republicans caused. We'll see how long Massachusetts thinks electing Brown was a good idea when he's goose-stepping with the rest of the Republicans.

By-the-way, yes. The "nuclear option" will cure the Democrats problem. They should dump the current bills in both the House and the Senate, abolish the filibuster and then give the American People what they want -- health care for all. If they do that, no Republican will be elected next November except maybe for a few in the dimmer parts of the country.

 

[saveliberty]

The Constitution requires super-majorities for a few things but allows each body to make its own rules. That means the filibuster isn't prohibited by the Constitution. However, it's inconsistent with the principles of democracy.

Now that the progressives got a severe ass kicking in MA, are youstill keen on using the nuke option?

The M&Ms blamed the Democrats for the recession, job losses and a host of other things Republicans caused. We'll see how long Massachusetts thinks electing Brown was a good idea when he's goose-stepping with the rest of the Republicans.

By-the-way, yes. The "nuclear option" will cure the Democrats problem. They should dump the current bills in both the House and the Senate, abolish the filibuster and then give the American People what they want -- health care for all. If they do that, no Republican will be elected next November except maybe for a few in the dimmer parts of the country.

Your repeated gibberish is no more true now than last time. Interesting how you have predetermined how effective Mr. Brown can be ahead of time. To bad you didn't have as much foresight when it came to Mr. Obama.

 

[Coyote]

Remind us again how when the Republicans threatened this Under Bush you guys went APE SHIT BAT HOUSE CRAZY and INSISTED it would be tantamount to a criminal act by Congress?

I'm fairly confident no one compared it with a criminal act. As I recall, the objections were based on a sense of fair play. Democrats only wanted to do what Republicans had done before. That wouldn't be the case now. Both sides have had their filibusters of legislatiion they didn't like. Now it's time to remove this anti-majoritarian, anti-democratic tool from the tool box.

Actually, RGS is right... the left did say it was tantamount to a crime against the American people....

Still think the nuke option is a good plan?

It would be political suicide for whichever party attempted it.

I remember arguing about it back when the Republican's were threatening it with judicial nominations and how angry and outraged the left were and how smug the right was and many felt totally justified in exercising it. Now, I am seeing the same arguments from many on the left defending that right.

Goes to show, in the end people aren't so different.

 

[Zander]

It's too bad that those Senators though Joe that you say represent a majority of the American people are not representing the wishes of the majoirty of those they represent. The process in which you speak of will not likely happen regardless of how much some want it because it is a political move that will result in serious problems for the majority, not that they don't have some now. They are more likely to press for passage of the Senate version of the bill in the House as is.

It is, indeed, too bad. That's why Brown's election could be a good thing. Should that happen, it won't because America is becoming more Conservative but because Progressives stayed home. If the Democrats want to retain power, they'll have to do whatever it takes to bring them out. Fundamentally, America is a center-left nation. Congressional Democrats are going to have act like it.

America is center right nation and is quickly moving further to the right the more they witness the fecklessness of the left. The Senate will never "go nuclear".

 

[rayboyusmc]

Oh and.... it is difficult to disprove a 'rumor' that is not a 'rumor', but a fact. Spineless bunch of whiners, you progressives. But we promise your death will be as painless as possible.

Oh, right the progressives are the real patriots. What a bunch of crap. Your side just likes to posture and stut more. The death of the another 45,000 Americans without healthcare won't be so painless as you promise.

The spineless progressives are the ones who made this country not the frigging stay with the norm conservatives.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The election of Scott Brown to the Senate from Massachusetts could be a blessing in disguise. The American People are being held hostage to the demands of special interests by Senate rules which permit a minority, in this case not only of senators but of senators representing a minority of the American People, to block legislation by filibustering. Should Brown be elected, the Senate majority still would be Democratic and they could abolish the filibuster.

It's all explained here: Senate Dems Must "Go Nuclear"

"Going nuclear" would have an added advantage. In addtition to overcoming Republican obstruction, the Democrats would be able to disprove the rumor that they don't have a spine.

I actually agree that filibustering is bad. An up or down vote should be made for every bill. But keep in mind if the Dems were to pass a health bill that the country does not want they will be thrown out of office in the next election and the Republicans would just repeal the legislation with their own before any real change/damage takes effect.

It also doesn't address the fact that Congress passing legislation that would force private citizens to buy health care is completly unconstitutional. So the only way to truely implement a government run health system would be to amend the US Constitution, which would require the 'super majority'.

America dislikes the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats had to take the teeth out of health care reform to get by the threat of a filibuster. In the absence of that threat, it would be pure and simple and America would love. We could have universal, single-payer or, at a minimum, the public option. That's what the American People want.

No no no. You are so wrong it is almost a joke. They took the liberal teeth out of their bill to buy Democrat votes. There was no chance of a Republican filibuster until Senator Brown takes office. The Bill was too far left even for many Democrats so they had to change it. Time and time again to buy each vote they needed from their own party. Sorry but the Democrats did it to themselves. Even by changing the law in Massachusetts to demand a special election. And that part of it is funny.

 

[Coyote]

I actually agree that filibustering is bad. An up or down vote should be made for every bill. But keep in mind if the Dems were to pass a health bill that the country does not want they will be thrown out of office in the next election and the Republicans would just repeal the legislation with their own before any real change/damage takes effect.

It also doesn't address the fact that Congress passing legislation that would force private citizens to buy health care is completly unconstitutional. So the only way to truely implement a government run health system would be to amend the US Constitution, which would require the 'super majority'.

America dislikes the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats had to take the teeth out of health care reform to get by the threat of a filibuster. In the absence of that threat, it would be pure and simple and America would love. We could have universal, single-payer or, at a minimum, the public option. That's what the American People want.

No no no. You are so wrong it is almost a joke. They took the liberal teeth out of their bill to buy Democrat votes. There was no chance of a Republican filibuster until Senator Brown takes office. The Bill was too far left even for many Democrats so they had to change it. Time and time again to buy each vote they needed from their own party. Sorry but the Democrats did it to themselves. Even by changing the law in Massachusetts to demand a special election. And that part of it is funny.

It wasn't "many" - I think it was a relatively small group of conservative Democrats. But since the Democrats couldn't count on a single Republican vote they had to get every single on of their Democrat votes on board. That meant a whole lot of wheeling and dealing and compromises all out of proportion to actual numbers.

And yes, it is funny how they attempted to change the election laws. Reminds me of the redistricting fiasco in Texas. Politicians are politicians are politicians....

 

[Joe Steel]

America dislikes the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats had to take the teeth out of health care reform to get by the threat of a filibuster. In the absence of that threat, it would be pure and simple and America would love. We could have universal, single-payer or, at a minimum, the public option. That's what the American People want.

No no no. You are so wrong it is almost a joke. They took the liberal teeth out of their bill to buy Democrat votes. There was no chance of a Republican filibuster until Senator Brown takes office. The Bill was too far left even for many Democrats so they had to change it. Time and time again to buy each vote they needed from their own party. Sorry but the Democrats did it to themselves. Even by changing the law in Massachusetts to demand a special election. And that part of it is funny.

The Democratic leadership had to give-away too much to the Blue Dogs because they needed every vote to overcome a possible filibuster. With Brown in the Senate and no filibuster, they could give-away nine votes. Ties go the Democrats because Biden is VP.

 

[Zander]

America dislikes the bill because it doesn't go far enough. Democrats had to take the teeth out of health care reform to get by the threat of a filibuster. In the absence of that threat, it would be pure and simple and America would love. We could have universal, single-payer or, at a minimum, the public option. That's what the American People want.

No no no. You are so wrong it is almost a joke. They took the liberal teeth out of their bill to buy Democrat votes. There was no chance of a Republican filibuster until Senator Brown takes office. The Bill was too far left even for many Democrats so they had to change it. Time and time again to buy each vote they needed from their own party. Sorry but the Democrats did it to themselves. Even by changing the law in Massachusetts to demand a special election. And that part of it is funny.

The Democratic leadership had to give-away too much to the Blue Dogs because they needed every vote to overcome a possible filibuster. With Brown in the Senate and no filibuster, they could give-away nine votes. Ties go the Democrats because Biden is VP.

Keep dreaming.......

 

[JimH52]

The Dems have lost the faith of the American people because they went behind closed doors and wrote a Bill with no imput from the other side of the isle. The republicans tried similar tricks when GW had them in majority. People are afraid that this Bill goes too far, too fast. That alarms, along with the misinformation from the republicans and general misunderstandings about what the Bill says. The Dems are calling HC reform their priority, while most Americans feel its the economy.

The Dems can save the Bill. They can also save their majority in November, but they need to learn from this lesson in humility. If they continue to blame Coakley and her embarrassingly poor campaign, they will be missing the point. The same was said after the Dems lost the VA and NJ governorships. They dismissed the losses and failed to make a correction in their direction or message. The people of the US do not want to see one party rule unilarerally. They want to see bipartisanship. They only see the Democrats in control of the WH, the House, and the Senate pushing through legistation without even imput from across the isle.

Would the GOP do the same thing if they possessed a Super Majority? Perhaps they would, but I honestly believe the electorate would deliver to them a simliar message.

The Dems have no choice but to work with the Republicans to get a HC reform bill. They could grumble and threaten several different work arounds to get the bill into Obama's hands, but they would pay even great in losses in November if they did. They need to suck it up and get something done.

On the other hand, the Republicans have been saying they also want to see HC Reform. Now they need to make good on their word or the voters will recognize stone walling.

 

[namvet]

where's the Bush haters ??? been awfully quite today

 

[JimH52]

Bush was the reason the Dems gained a Super Majority in the first place! You think that is something to gloat about? HA!

 

[Screaming Eagle]

How would going nuclear help? They've had a supermajority in both houses for a year, if they can't pass it like that they're hopeless.