Going Green = Making America poor!!!

[westwall]

We need the good ole days of wasting billions on a Star Wars Missle Defense system.

At least we got something for the money. We got technological breakthroughs that are being used in the aviation and automotive industries, we got medical advancements, and of course the computer industry benefitted from the billions invested.

What exactly has the 100 billion given to the AGW supporters given us???? Let's see. A plan to spend 76 TRILLION dollars to lower the global temperature by one degree....maybe.

Sounds like an absolute bargain there.

yes it does take time and money to develop new technologies or make them better.

You've had 30 years and a 100 billion dollars. When are you going to produce something useful?

 

[starcraftzzz]

If you look at it closely it's easy to see that the tree huggers have been hijacked by the socialist revolution. Barry Obama hired a communist with no experience other than leading an arson and looting rampage to be on his green jobs board. The timing of the green revolution is suspect. Just when America is at it's economic weak point the revolutionary greenies decide that they should push for costlier and less effective energy sources while US subscribes to an extortion scheme called global warming.

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

 

[whitehall]

If you look at it closely it's easy to see that the tree huggers have been hijacked by the socialist revolution. Barry Obama hired a communist with no experience other than leading an arson and looting rampage to be on his green jobs board. The timing of the green revolution is suspect. Just when America is at it's economic weak point the revolutionary greenies decide that they should push for costlier and less effective energy sources while US subscribes to an extortion scheme called global warming.

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

Here we go, if you don't agree with the global warming extortion scheme you must be for yada yada pollution. There ain't a freaking study in the entire world that says "green energy" is economically viable. Windmills cost less to operate but the amount of energy the gigantic humming monstrosities produce is laughable. Acres of solar mirrors are a blight on the landscape and costly. We don't have freaking time for this nonsense at this juncture in our economic history. Wait a dozen or forty years for the technology to catch up and continue to utilize fossil fuels before we mortgage our great grand kids future buying oil from unstable regimes.

 

[westwall]

If you look at it closely it's easy to see that the tree huggers have been hijacked by the socialist revolution. Barry Obama hired a communist with no experience other than leading an arson and looting rampage to be on his green jobs board. The timing of the green revolution is suspect. Just when America is at it's economic weak point the revolutionary greenies decide that they should push for costlier and less effective energy sources while US subscribes to an extortion scheme called global warming.

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

Five studies that have no bearing on reality. If they did people would be buying the technology like it was going out of style. Instead the industry can only survive by the grace of the taxpayers.

 

[bripat9643]

Skull, we have been paying higher rates year by year in every part of the nation in any case.

That's right, but only becaue of turds like you who are trying to make cheap energy illegal.

 

[bripat9643]

Here in Portland, Oregon, just one solar plant employees over 1000 people at living wage jobs. And we have windmills that are going up daily, providing construction jobs now, and maintenance jobs after that.

And you'll be paying higher electricity rates if Denmark is any indicator.

Yep and you'll be paying lower health care rates of which when compared will result in you paying less in total

Green energy won't save a dime on healthcare costs. In fact, it will increase the cost of health care since it will increase the cost of everything we produce.

 

[bripat9643]

If you look at it closely it's easy to see that the tree huggers have been hijacked by the socialist revolution. Barry Obama hired a communist with no experience other than leading an arson and looting rampage to be on his green jobs board. The timing of the green revolution is suspect. Just when America is at it's economic weak point the revolutionary greenies decide that they should push for costlier and less effective energy sources while US subscribes to an extortion scheme called global warming.

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

Name one person who has died from oil pollution in the last 50 years.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Here in Portland, Oregon, just one solar plant employees over 1000 people at living wage jobs. And we have windmills that are going up daily, providing construction jobs now, and maintenance jobs after that.

And what was the opportunity cost?

March 27 (Bloomberg) -- Subsidizing renewable energy in the U.S. may destroy two jobs for every one created if Spain’s experience with windmills and solar farms is any guide.

For every new position that depends on energy price supports, at least 2.2 jobs in other industries will disappear, according to a study from King Juan Carlos University in Madrid.

Job Losses From Obama Green Stimulus Foreseen in Spanish Study - Bloomberg

 

[Annie]

A fabulous article here by John Stossel about the ruse that is green energy. His points are not even debatable.

From the article...............

Obama claims that if we "invest" more, we can "create millions of jobs -- but only if we accelerate the "green transition." What could make more sense? A little push from the smart politicians, and -- voila! -- an abundance of new jobs and a cleaner, sustainable environment. It's the ultimate twofer. Except it's an illusion, because governments do not "create" jobs.

"All the government can do is subsidize some industries while jacking up costs for others," writes Green. "It is destroying jobs in the conventional energy sector -- and most likely in other industrial sectors -- through taxes and subsidies to new green companies that will use taxpayer dollars to undercut the competition. The subsidized jobs 'created' are, by definition, less efficient uses of capital than market-created jobs."

This is good, solid economic thinking. Many years ago, Henry Hazlitt wrote in his bestseller, "Economics in One Lesson," "The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists in tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups."

RealClearPolitics - Keeping Nature Exactly as Is ... Forever







So yup.........we can go green. But heres what it means ( in part). We're all going to be driving around in little gay 2 door death traps. No more plastics in our lives ( how thrilling is that thought?). Live in homes the size of a two car garage! Exist for years with pronounced food shortages. Agree to a significant decrease in take home pay.

And thats just a start.


The reward? ( according to the environmentalists). We can thus live in a world surrounded by nature as it was 1 million years ago!!!







The reality is................the k00ks dont mind fucking over a vast majority of the population to attain their vision.






cool

I'm for doing anything that costs little but consideration, to address issues regarding 'green' until there is more than snake oil science. That includes the money generated to politicians that approve all the different gasoline 'requirements' for individual states. No one has proven effectiveness, but they get their kick-backs and we pay more. Same with taxing fossil fuel industries out of work, because of the 'hope' of alternatives not yet feasible. So too with the feds slapping private property owners with orders that, 'no further improvements on the land allowed,' because some group got an insect, plant, or bird 'protected.'

On the other hand, I've no problem with spending money to clean up rivers, creeks, ponds, lakes, etc. It's beyond proven that a myriad of poisons have been dumped into fresh water since the beginning of the industrial revolution and it's been proven that they kill smaller bodies of water. That includes the fish, insects, birds, etc., that relied on them. It also leaves less fresh water around the planet. Man, animals, and plants all need fresh water.

Now cleaning up the landfills? That's much harder. Truth is I recycle like a crazy person. One, because I believe it's important. Two, I don't pay for recycles, I pay for refuse. I use one refuse sticker a month on average. Recyclables? A 30 gallon and 2 or 3 bins. I do have my doubts though, how much is really reused. In Chicago there was a huge scandal just a few years ago. The 'recycle' trucks were dumping in same places as refuse.

For any tree harvested, two should be planted, minimum. There should be restrictions on how many mature trees can be harvested, but that's for the companies and scientists to work out. I do know though that two saplings do NOT replace a 40 year old tree. Not to look at, not to use, not in ability to create oxygen.

How many species of animals became extinct before man roamed the earth? How many after, but before coal was burned? How many before cars?

Don't get me wrong, I love tigers as much as anyone, but can't say I'm unhappy looking at the Saber Toothed variety in natural museums and books, rather than in person.

Think of all the different races of man. Funny thing there, while earlier species, ala Cro-Magnon evolved eventually into the current form, the races indeed have blended throughout the millenniums. I believe current anthropological theory still holds that current humans first evolved in Africa? Blacks certainly weren't wiped out. Nope, as man hunted and gathered, wandered farther away and the skin adapted to new climates, getting lighter. Problems arose when these groups met again, much, much later.

Nature too adapts, much quicker for the most part than humans. Logically one could say that some men are underestimating the abilities of nature.

 

[skookerasbil]

A fabulous article here by John Stossel about the ruse that is green energy. His points are not even debatable.

From the article...............

Obama claims that if we "invest" more, we can "create millions of jobs -- but only if we accelerate the "green transition." What could make more sense? A little push from the smart politicians, and -- voila! -- an abundance of new jobs and a cleaner, sustainable environment. It's the ultimate twofer. Except it's an illusion, because governments do not "create" jobs.

"All the government can do is subsidize some industries while jacking up costs for others," writes Green. "It is destroying jobs in the conventional energy sector -- and most likely in other industrial sectors -- through taxes and subsidies to new green companies that will use taxpayer dollars to undercut the competition. The subsidized jobs 'created' are, by definition, less efficient uses of capital than market-created jobs."

This is good, solid economic thinking. Many years ago, Henry Hazlitt wrote in his bestseller, "Economics in One Lesson," "The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists in tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups."

RealClearPolitics - Keeping Nature Exactly as Is ... Forever







So yup.........we can go green. But heres what it means ( in part). We're all going to be driving around in little gay 2 door death traps. No more plastics in our lives ( how thrilling is that thought?). Live in homes the size of a two car garage! Exist for years with pronounced food shortages. Agree to a significant decrease in take home pay.

And thats just a start.


The reward? ( according to the environmentalists). We can thus live in a world surrounded by nature as it was 1 million years ago!!!







The reality is................the k00ks dont mind fucking over a vast majority of the population to attain their vision.






cool

I'm for doing anything that costs little but consideration, to address issues regarding 'green' until there is more than snake oil science. That includes the money generated to politicians that approve all the different gasoline 'requirements' for individual states. No one has proven effectiveness, but they get their kick-backs and we pay more. Same with taxing fossil fuel industries out of work, because of the 'hope' of alternatives not yet feasible. So too with the feds slapping private property owners with orders that, 'no further improvements on the land allowed,' because some group got an insect, plant, or bird 'protected.'

On the other hand, I've no problem with spending money to clean up rivers, creeks, ponds, lakes, etc. It's beyond proven that a myriad of poisons have been dumped into fresh water since the beginning of the industrial revolution and it's been proven that they kill smaller bodies of water. That includes the fish, insects, birds, etc., that relied on them. It also leaves less fresh water around the planet. Man, animals, and plants all need fresh water.

Now cleaning up the landfills? That's much harder. Truth is I recycle like a crazy person. One, because I believe it's important. Two, I don't pay for recycles, I pay for refuse. I use one refuse sticker a month on average. Recyclables? A 30 gallon and 2 or 3 bins. I do have my doubts though, how much is really reused. In Chicago there was a huge scandal just a few years ago. The 'recycle' trucks were dumping in same places as refuse.

For any tree harvested, two should be planted, minimum. There should be restrictions on how many mature trees can be harvested, but that's for the companies and scientists to work out. I do know though that two saplings do NOT replace a 40 year old tree. Not to look at, not to use, not in ability to create oxygen.

How many species of animals became extinct before man roamed the earth? How many after, but before coal was burned? How many before cars?

Don't get me wrong, I love tigers as much as anyone, but can't say I'm unhappy looking at the Saber Toothed variety in natural museums and books, rather than in person.

Think of all the different races of man. Funny thing there, while earlier species, ala Cro-Magnon evolved eventually into the current form, the races indeed have blended throughout the millenniums. I believe current anthropological theory still holds that current humans first evolved in Africa? Blacks certainly weren't wiped out. Nope, as man hunted and gathered, wandered farther away and the skin adapted to new climates, getting lighter. Problems arose when these groups met again, much, much later.

Nature too adapts, much quicker for the most part than humans. Logically one could say that some men are underestimating the abilities of nature.

Very well put Annie and that is the way most Americans think and live their lives. The environmentalist radicals on the other hand dont look at things logically. To them, weighing the costs of things in addressing global warming is never factored in. Its not even an afterthought thing. So what is "feasible" to you and most of the population is an irrelevant matter to them. Frankly, Ive always thought it is a brain fuck up thing........not an intelligence thing mind you........but these people just have some difficulty with the thought processing. Where most of us live our lives weighing necessary tradeoffs, these people have this distinct inability to do so.

Green energy.........its mere existence due to the concept of global warming...........will always remain a fringe industry. Indeed, there is money to be made out there for clever people who know these green people exist to be taken advantage of. The current green technologies will never be more than 10% of our energy production in the next few decades............not even debatable. INterestingly........the same weather variables the environmental nutters look to capitalize on are the same variables that will perpetuate the use of fossil fuels far into the 21st centruy. For every bomb thrown by the environmental goofballs when a weather event hits, another one will come along on the other extreme and wipe the slate clean ( for the public perception at large..........for example, the very chilly May mornings weve had in New York ). This dynamic has been happening for years and the bomb throwing dolts still dont recognize it.


Frankly Annie............these green people are no different than the few people in France who saw the face of Jesus in a blueberry muffin. Im sure those people felt really strongly about it and that hundreds of millions would embrace it = fAiL. Same thing with the goals of the greens..............fringe shit embraced only by fringe.


All this green shit............nobody cares...........think about it............how many people even visit this forum on a regular basis? 15???!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

For a far left climate site...................

"Green Energy Companies dropping like Flies!"

“Green Energy” Companies Dropping Like Flies – What Does It All Mean? - Greener Ideal




I'll tell you what it means and save you from having to read the link.....................



The k00ks ARE lOsInG!!!!

 

[starcraftzzz]

If you look at it closely it's easy to see that the tree huggers have been hijacked by the socialist revolution. Barry Obama hired a communist with no experience other than leading an arson and looting rampage to be on his green jobs board. The timing of the green revolution is suspect. Just when America is at it's economic weak point the revolutionary greenies decide that they should push for costlier and less effective energy sources while US subscribes to an extortion scheme called global warming.

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

Five studies that have no bearing on reality. If they did people would be buying the technology like it was going out of style. Instead the industry can only survive by the grace of the taxpayers.

ROTL who knew that looking at the data of the effects and benefits of something “has no basis in reality” but you just making assumptions is totally reality
Green energy results in less pollution; however green energy companies do not get paid for having less pollution meaning the economic benefited the create are not reflected in the profit margin, so the only way to know which energy source is the best is to have a study that analysis the effects and benifi5s of each. Furthermore oil companies get billions in government subsides

 

[Oddball]

Furthermore oil companies get billions in government subsides

Name 'em.

C'mon....Name the subsidies that go to which companies and give us the dollar figures.

Show your work.

 

[tererun]

So yup.........we can go green. But heres what it means ( in part). We're all going to be driving around in little gay 2 door death traps.

I am assuming you mean that these things are light and weak and in an accident they would not perform as well as something more solid. First to address the problem, as if it exists, you are talking about something you can stop doing and make yourself safer. You can stop driving like a inept jerk off and that would make it far less likely you would have to rely on the car to save you when you fuck up. So you could start doing things like driving safe speeds and following road laws and really never have to know how your car would perform in an accident. Since car companies make smaller cars safe by focusing on the safety of the passengers and not relying on superior mass to get people through the accident you are really not in a death trap and your argument is dumb.

No more plastics in our lives ( how thrilling is that thought?).

Wow you are good at this wrong thing. Take a look at most cars now. You know from the example above. Do you ever wonder why they do not rust anymore? Yeah, that is plastic. It's lower weight and adjustable nature actually make it better in terms of green

Live in homes the size of a two car garage!

Many tools and devices have become much smaller. You no longer need as much space to store crap in, especially when it is digital.

Exist for years with pronounced food shortages.

Uh way?

Agree to a significant decrease in take home pay.

Money is just a concept anyway. If done properly, and i am not saying it is, exchange for labor should be a constant value. The reason why you make less is because rich people decided you should.

And thats just a start.


The reward? ( according to the environmentalists). We can thus live in a world surrounded by nature as it was 1 million years ago!!!

I am pretty sure no one wants the million year ago earth. have you gone to that thing they call a school?

The reality is................the k00ks dont mind fucking over a vast majority of the population to attain their vision.

No it is OK, someone told you the wrong things or you misunderstood. The reality is that in the universe actions cause reactions and those reactions can cause problems. So it is really the person who acts stupidly and pollutes or damages the environment we all have to live in who fucks us all over. Really, the people trying to clean up the mess are not the ones destroying the environment.






cool[/QUOTE]

 

[skookerasbil]

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

Five studies that have no bearing on reality. If they did people would be buying the technology like it was going out of style. Instead the industry can only survive by the grace of the taxpayers.

ROTL who knew that looking at the data of the effects and benefits of something “has no basis in reality” but you just making assumptions is totally reality
Green energy results in less pollution; however green energy companies do not get paid for having less pollution meaning the economic benefited the create are not reflected in the profit margin, so the only way to know which energy source is the best is to have a study that analysis the effects and benifi5s of each. Furthermore oil companies get billions in government subsides

yada.............yada............philosophy is gay.

“Green Energy” Companies Dropping Like Flies – What Does It All Mean? - Greener Ideal

 

[skookerasbil]

So yup.........we can go green. But heres what it means ( in part). We're all going to be driving around in little gay 2 door death traps.

I am assuming you mean that these things are light and weak and in an accident they would not perform as well as something more solid. First to address the problem, as if it exists, you are talking about something you can stop doing and make yourself safer. You can stop driving like a inept jerk off and that would make it far less likely you would have to rely on the car to save you when you fuck up. So you could start doing things like driving safe speeds and following road laws and really never have to know how your car would perform in an accident. Since car companies make smaller cars safe by focusing on the safety of the passengers and not relying on superior mass to get people through the accident you are really not in a death trap and your argument is dumb.

No more plastics in our lives ( how thrilling is that thought?).

Wow you are good at this wrong thing. Take a look at most cars now. You know from the example above. Do you ever wonder why they do not rust anymore? Yeah, that is plastic. It's lower weight and adjustable nature actually make it better in terms of green



Many tools and devices have become much smaller. You no longer need as much space to store crap in, especially when it is digital.



Uh way?


Money is just a concept anyway. If done properly, and i am not saying it is, exchange for labor should be a constant value. The reason why you make less is because rich people decided you should.

And thats just a start.


The reward? ( according to the environmentalists). We can thus live in a world surrounded by nature as it was 1 million years ago!!!

I am pretty sure no one wants the million year ago earth. have you gone to that thing they call a school?

The reality is................the k00ks dont mind fucking over a vast majority of the population to attain their vision.

No it is OK, someone told you the wrong things or you misunderstood. The reality is that in the universe actions cause reactions and those reactions can cause problems. So it is really the person who acts stupidly and pollutes or damages the environment we all have to live in who fucks us all over. Really, the people trying to clean up the mess are not the ones destroying the environment.






cool

[/QUOTE]



meh

Who cant love the connect the dots fAiL unicorn lovers................"Money is just a concept anyway............"

still losing.


Fuel Fix » Europe


Boom and Bust: Renewable Energy's Future? - Energy & Environment Experts

 

[skookerasbil]

Waiting for the links to show that green energy is winning..........................

 

[westwall]

Who knew that not wanting corporations to dump pollution that kills people into our water and air is just a socialist revolution by a hire communist arson extortionist.
Furthermore I already post i think 5 different studies that show green energy costs less then fossil fuels, meaning reality does not agree with you

Five studies that have no bearing on reality. If they did people would be buying the technology like it was going out of style. Instead the industry can only survive by the grace of the taxpayers.

ROTL who knew that looking at the data of the effects and benefits of something “has no basis in reality” but you just making assumptions is totally reality
Green energy results in less pollution; however green energy companies do not get paid for having less pollution meaning the economic benefited the create are not reflected in the profit margin, so the only way to know which energy source is the best is to have a study that analysis the effects and benifi5s of each. Furthermore oil companies get billions in government subsides

They have no basis in reality becaue they are patently untrue. They make broad assumptions that have no bearing in fact and use that to promulgate their biased study.

 

[westwall]

So yup.........we can go green. But heres what it means ( in part). We're all going to be driving around in little gay 2 door death traps.

I am assuming you mean that these things are light and weak and in an accident they would not perform as well as something more solid. First to address the problem, as if it exists, you are talking about something you can stop doing and make yourself safer. You can stop driving like a inept jerk off and that would make it far less likely you would have to rely on the car to save you when you fuck up. So you could start doing things like driving safe speeds and following road laws and really never have to know how your car would perform in an accident. Since car companies make smaller cars safe by focusing on the safety of the passengers and not relying on superior mass to get people through the accident you are really not in a death trap and your argument is dumb.

No more plastics in our lives ( how thrilling is that thought?).

Wow you are good at this wrong thing. Take a look at most cars now. You know from the example above. Do you ever wonder why they do not rust anymore? Yeah, that is plastic. It's lower weight and adjustable nature actually make it better in terms of green



Many tools and devices have become much smaller. You no longer need as much space to store crap in, especially when it is digital.



Uh way?


Money is just a concept anyway. If done properly, and i am not saying it is, exchange for labor should be a constant value. The reason why you make less is because rich people decided you should.

And thats just a start.


The reward? ( according to the environmentalists). We can thus live in a world surrounded by nature as it was 1 million years ago!!!

I am pretty sure no one wants the million year ago earth. have you gone to that thing they call a school?

The reality is................the k00ks dont mind fucking over a vast majority of the population to attain their vision.

No it is OK, someone told you the wrong things or you misunderstood. The reality is that in the universe actions cause reactions and those reactions can cause problems. So it is really the person who acts stupidly and pollutes or damages the environment we all have to live in who fucks us all over. Really, the people trying to clean up the mess are not the ones destroying the environment.





cool

[/QUOTE]





Actually, yeas, they are. I suggest you educate yourself and look up the environmental disaster known as MTBE that was visited upon the state of CA by ENVIRONMENTALISTS! Or take a look at how much toxic waste is produced by solar power manufacturing. You see dear sock person, the cures in this case are worse than the illness.