God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?

Religious law can never truly speak to all people where everyone gets the same rules. Religious law is about inclusion and exclusion.

Secular law speaks to an entire population and provides and avenue for redress without qualification.

Indeed, by design morality is a contrivance in both religious law and secular law.

Secular law is also about inclusion and exclusion -- rules for citizens and non-citizens, or lawful subgroups and those beyond the law (felons can't vote I believe).

But do you think that there is a transcendent morality which, if not god-based is somehow innate and encoded in our genetic make up?

Is man's state of nature infused with any moral law or is it all construct?

Secular law includes all those entities you have mentioned, religious law does not apply to all in a land ruled by a secular society. However, in the US those religious laws are recognized and respected as they pertain to the religious sect in that closed society not the general populace.

Morality is not "encoded" in our genetic make up, but, a is based on necessity for which rules are made for various situations based on the needs of society.
 
Interesting. But aren't you saying that God must therefore meet your standards or it is not God? Does that not then make you the final arbiter of morality?

May I humbly point out that you missed the 'if' clause; if God existed. It is not my claim at all. I speak only about the meaning of words. You are free to speak of God in other terms, but it could alter the original meaning of the term. We can call black yellow if we want, by why would we do that?

P.S. Until God makes an undisputed appearance, humans are the ultimate arbiter.

Jesus indicated that that is what we were to do forever and that is why he needs not return. Not that the Jesus of the Christians was ever here to begin with but the message put in his mouth still says just that. His message was to free mankind. Not slave us to religions.

I expand on that a bit at this link.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...n-judge-god-i-is-you-if-you-choose-to-be.html

Regards
DL


Jesus never indicated He need not return. He lays out clearly in Revelation, why His return is eminent. You are promoting false doctrine.

I, is not you, and your premise doesn't pass the Bible criteria test, which says DO NOT JUDGE. Period.
 
May I humbly point out that you missed the 'if' clause; if God existed. It is not my claim at all. I speak only about the meaning of words. You are free to speak of God in other terms, but it could alter the original meaning of the term. We can call black yellow if we want, by why would we do that?

P.S. Until God makes an undisputed appearance, humans are the ultimate arbiter.

Jesus indicated that that is what we were to do forever and that is why he needs not return. Not that the Jesus of the Christians was ever here to begin with but the message put in his mouth still says just that. His message was to free mankind. Not slave us to religions.

I expand on that a bit at this link.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...n-judge-god-i-is-you-if-you-choose-to-be.html

Regards
DL


Jesus never indicated He need not return. He lays out clearly in Revelation, why His return is eminent. You are promoting false doctrine.

I, is not you, and your premise doesn't pass the Bible criteria test, which says DO NOT JUDGE. Period.

No. The author of Revelation said it. If you believe that it was Jesus speaking to the author then that rests upon your faith. But then, nearly all Biblical claims of events or what Jesus may have said rest primarily upon faith since non-Biblical historical evidence is thin.
 
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That would be an astonishing point, and one I would agree upon, but even I'm going to say "please provide a supporting source."


Buddy. If I have to then you are not a moral man as moral people know what is going on in the world.

You sound like Iran's leader when he said there were no gays in his country. You are suggesting there is no family rape in Christianity.

Regards
DL

Wow. That was uncalled for. Anybody who makes a specific claim (i.e. 1 out of 600) is intellectually and morally obligated to support that claim. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I just wanted to know where you got your information from. Unbelievable.

If you need proof of my claim then just take a look at your community. If that is not enough then Google along.

Regards
DL
 
God's law is moral and secular law is sometimes moral and sometimes based on God's law. It's not that hard to figure out.

God promotes the killing of babies.

Is that moral?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI]God on Trial: The Verdict - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL
 
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Morality is not "encoded" in our genetic make up, but, a is based on necessity for which rules are made for various situations based on the needs of society.

I agree with your last. Not your first.

Nature would not call what she does morals but we would interpret it as such for lack of another word.

Have a look at what we seem to term as encoded morals.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA]Magazine - Can Babies Tell Right From Wrong? - nytimes.com/video - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL
 
May I humbly point out that you missed the 'if' clause; if God existed. It is not my claim at all. I speak only about the meaning of words. You are free to speak of God in other terms, but it could alter the original meaning of the term. We can call black yellow if we want, by why would we do that?

P.S. Until God makes an undisputed appearance, humans are the ultimate arbiter.

Jesus indicated that that is what we were to do forever and that is why he needs not return. Not that the Jesus of the Christians was ever here to begin with but the message put in his mouth still says just that. His message was to free mankind. Not slave us to religions.

I expand on that a bit at this link.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...n-judge-god-i-is-you-if-you-choose-to-be.html

Regards
DL


Jesus never indicated He need not return. He lays out clearly in Revelation, why His return is eminent. You are promoting false doctrine.

I, is not you, and your premise doesn't pass the Bible criteria test, which says DO NOT JUDGE. Period.

Hmm.

That is a judgement call my friend so stop judging if you think that is the way to go.

Personally, I like to judge.

Galileo -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

You go ahead and forgo the use of your mind.

Stay a sheep and do not use the gift that Jesus gave.

Regards
DL
 
God's law is moral and secular law is sometimes moral and sometimes based on God's law. It's not that hard to figure out.

Well anyone can declare something to be moral and just. What is moral to you? Why would you say that is case? Can you point to something that is moral in your God's law that without him we would not have? Can you give me the reasoning behind this statement? I am genuinely interested in finding this out.
 
May I humbly point out that you missed the 'if' clause; if God existed. It is not my claim at all. I speak only about the meaning of words. You are free to speak of God in other terms, but it could alter the original meaning of the term. We can call black yellow if we want, by why would we do that?

P.S. Until God makes an undisputed appearance, humans are the ultimate arbiter.

Jesus indicated that that is what we were to do forever and that is why he needs not return. Not that the Jesus of the Christians was ever here to begin with but the message put in his mouth still says just that. His message was to free mankind. Not slave us to religions.

I expand on that a bit at this link.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...n-judge-god-i-is-you-if-you-choose-to-be.html

Regards
DL


Jesus never indicated He need not return. He lays out clearly in Revelation, why His return is eminent. You are promoting false doctrine.

I, is not you, and your premise doesn't pass the Bible criteria test, which says DO NOT JUDGE. Period.

It is more against hypocrisy than it is judgement Ram.
 
Buddy. If I have to then you are not a moral man as moral people know what is going on in the world.

You sound like Iran's leader when he said there were no gays in his country. You are suggesting there is no family rape in Christianity.

Regards
DL

Wow. That was uncalled for. Anybody who makes a specific claim (i.e. 1 out of 600) is intellectually and morally obligated to support that claim. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I just wanted to know where you got your information from. Unbelievable.

If you need proof of my claim then just take a look at your community. If that is not enough then Google along.

Regards
DL

You miss my point. I can google to my heart's content and I am certain I would find child sexual abuse in ANY environment. If it were to occur more frequently in Christian homes, then that would be something extremely noteworthy, and something I would be interested to know. I was hoping for a source. Disappointing.

I hold you every bit as accountable for supporting your claims as anybody else, no more or less. If I made the claim, for example, that defense spending were X% of the national budget, and somebody challenged me for a source, I would be obligated to provide it. Otherwise, that person would have every reason to suspect me of making it up.
 

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