God is impossible.. Long read but good!!

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by MajikMyst, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. MajikMyst
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    MajikMyst Honorary Non-member

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    Why the Christian God is Impossible
    by Chad Docterman

    Introduction

    Christians consider the existence of their God to be an obvious truth that no sane man could deny. I strongly disagree with this assumption not only because evidence for the existence of this presumably ubiquitous yet invisible God is lacking, but because the very nature Christians attribute to this God is self-contradictory.

    Proving a Universal Negative

    It is taken for granted by Christians, as well as many atheists, that a universal negative cannot be proven. In this case, that universal negative is the statement that the Christian God does not exist. One would have to have omniscience, they say, in order to prove that anything does not exist. I disagree with this position, however, because omniscience is not needed in order to prove that a thing whose nature is a self-contradiction cannot, and therefore does not exist.

    I do not need a complete knowledge of the universe to prove to you that cubic spheres do not exist. Such objects have mutually-exclusive attributes which would render their existence impossible. For example, a cube, by definition, has 8 corners, while a sphere has none. These properties are completely incompatible: they cannot be held simultaneously by the same object. It is my intent to show that the supposed properties of the Christian God Yahweh, like those of a cubic sphere, are incompatible, and by so doing, to show Yahweh's existence to be an impossibility.

    Remainder HERE

    The rules of fair use require links to, and prohibit the posting of, another's original material in entirety.

    ~Dude
     
  2. Amanda
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    Amanda Calm as a Hindu cow

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    Whatever you need to tell yourself is fine by me.
     
  3. MajikMyst
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    MajikMyst Honorary Non-member

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    I don't need to tell myself anything.. But the point stands.. Christians constantly demand that others prove that god does not exist.. Never do they make the same effort to prove he does..

    So? Here is their chance.. Prove he exists..
     
  4. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    It would only be good if it were accurate. I can see a number of problems already and Im not even trying that much:

    1) The writer seems to have no idea what perfect means. Not surprising considering most people misuse that word.

    2) If falsely claims the Bible has to be perfect and is perfect. Granted this is because there are alot of Christians who falsely claim and assume this as well. The fact is the Bible doesnt claim to be perfect. And the very nature of fallen man would prove that anything touched by mortal man cannot be perfect. The truth is that God works through modern revelation. He continues to reveal His will to His living people so that they can know for themselves. He also reveals to people the truths found in the scriptures and how they help us in modern life. The scriptures are not the ultimate authority. God is. The scriptures are a tool to teach us how to recieve revelation and learn from God.

    3) The Spirit of Prophecy isnt about predicting the future. It's about testifying of Jesus Christ. Once you understand that the scriptures teach that the Spirit of prophecy is a testimony of Jesus Christ, you understand why Moses said that God wanted all men to have the Spirit of Prophecy. Because He wanted all to testify to their knowledge of the Messiah and His Atonement.

    4) The writer misunderstands creation. Ill have to add that again to the category, the writer is wrong because a majority of Christians are wrong. They incorrectly believe the Creation Ex Nihilo doctrine. That there was nothing here and then suddenly there was because God said so. The Bible on the other hand teaches that God organized the world. That He created it out already existing materials. This unfortunately is lost on the english translations of the scriptures, but alot clearer in the original language. If I build/create a rocking chair, does that mean I had no materials to work with before?

    The fact is matter is Eternal. it has always existed. The universe has always existed in some form. God is the only who organized the materials into the universe we see now. He has been doing this from Eternity, and will continue doing it for Eternity. It's His job.

    5) This, of course, leads to common misconceptions about what being all powerful means. For some reason people seem to think that being all powerful means on can do anything at all. But this isnt accurate. You cant do a logical possibility no matter how powerful you are. You cant make a circle a square. What all powerful means is that you have power to do anything that it is possible to do. This is exactly why the "Can God create a rock so big he couldnt lift it" argument is ridiculous. Because it ignores what all powerful actually means.

    6) The writer seems to think that suffering is by definition evil and no good can come of it. Thus God is somehow bad because suffering exists. Suffering exists for a reason. And I think much good can come of it sometimes. You just have to be open to and willing to learn from your experiences. Problem is some people seem to think that only things that make you feel good and pleasure are good. This is entirely false. In fact, its those so called pleasurable things that can often make us suffer more in the long run. Example: People clearly dont like to eat healthy. Let's just face it, junk food taste good. Its more pleasurable. And some people feel like they are suffering if they arent eating something that tastes good. If they have to eat vegetables or bran or something they are suffering. But in reality they are taking care of their bodies. They will be suffering less down the line than those who destroy their bodies and have 50 years of pain once their actions catch up to them. See suffering is often in the eye of the beholder. And its not necessarily a bad thing it can often be very good.


    7) I think I've made a pretty good list here considering im only browsing lightly for problems I have found in the writers opinion. The fact is the original writer has an inaccurate view of God. Is it any wonder he finds the Christian God an impossibility? And sadly that has alot to do with the inaccuracy Christians themselves have about who God is. But because their understanding of God is inaccurate, doesnt mean He isnt there. Nor does it mean that the Atonement of Christ is not real. But are we supposed to just believe? God doesnt ask for blind faith. He asks us to trust Him and He will show us with power the truth. The problem is people rarely give God the chance to keep that promise. How many people truly ask God to know the truth with any sort of faith? How many people experiment with faith? Many simply assume because they think they know better or something doesnt make sense or because the Bible says something they like that they dont need to ask God whether what they are thinking is accurate and that God wont answer them if they did.

    But God does speak to people who humble themselves before Him. He will answer those who exercise faith. And you dont have to have alot of faith. Even if all you can do is consider the possibility, you can find out. I didnt always know whether there was a God. In fact, I seriously questioned it for quite a while. But I was willing to believe the scriptures that if we ask we recieve and if we seek we will find. I was willing to believe that if there was a God, He could somehow let me know so that I would know Him. And He did. I dont expect anyone to take my word for it. In fact, I dont want anyone to take my word for it. I want people to investigate and search on their own. I want people to have their own experiences with God. But it starts by opening up to the possibility that you can. And if you are willing to believe that you can, you eventually will.
     
  5. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    You seem to misunderstand what Christians are doing when they are "demanding proof" that God does not exist. They arent actually expecting you to show proof. They are showing you that your standard of proof neither prove nor disprove God. They are providing credibility for their beliefs by showing that you cant disprove God is there. Which naturally you can. If you were honest with yourself, you would realize you cant prove or disprove God based on the material world around you.

    So does that mean you cant know God? No. It means you cant know matters of the Spirit by the physical. If you want to learn about the Spirit world, you need to do so with your Spirit.

    I know God exists because Ive had experiences with Him. My life is my evidence that He exists. The pure knowledge the Spirit brings is overwhelming evidence that He exists. The problem is you deny that such a world exists so you never allow yourself the opportunity to experience it. You presume to already know, so you dont seek and you never find. You dont ask therefore you dont recieve. and then you never learn anything.

    Knowledge comes when you ask questions and seek to find the answers. You dont necessarily find the answers immediately, but no one ever said you did. However, if you never are willing to believe you can find the answers, you will never search for them and thus you remain in darkness and ignorance rather than learning truth as you could have if you just searched.
     
  6. Si modo
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    Si modo Diamond Member

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    If only perceived hypocrisy were all that was needed to be non-existent, we would be a politician-free world.
     
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  7. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    I sometimes wonder why atheists bother. As long as religion doesn't infect government then I don't see a problem. I don't know why some atheists have this urge to tell believers they are wrong. Just leave them alone. Yes, the proofs of God's existence are faulty, but most of the proofs were devised well before science became so influential in human affairs and we began to understand the universe a little more.

    I do agree that the "prove God doesn't exist" response is silly though.
     
  8. MajikMyst
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    MajikMyst Honorary Non-member

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    Avatar, I appreciate the effort you have put into your posts to respond.. But from what I have read of your posts.. You have missed the point the author was trying to make..

    Simply put, Christians definition of god is impossible..

    Perfection is that which is without fault.. But that is realitive to someones point a view or perception.. Christians never make that disctinction.. A pair of shoes that are perfect for me may not be perfect for you.. We may have different size feet.. I am well aware as to what the word means.. As is the author.. Christians however don't have a clue..

    On a logical stand point.. Perfection can only create perfection.. Even in the terms of free choice, we wold make the perfect choice.. Using the definition of christians.. Which is impossible as we have all sinned..

    Assuming that god has some intelligence.. Who created god? God can't be everlasting because at some point god had to be taught what he knows.. To simply say god is every lasting and knows it all is impossible.. Energy and matter are ever lasting and they don't know anything but are required for anything to exist..

    In Genesis, it say that 'God said let there be light.' Who was god talking to?? Himself??

    The point the author is making is that god in the biblical sense and the christian definition are impossible.. And he would be correct..

    Which is why Christians always ask you to prove the negative.. Cause they can't prove the positive.. Lack of evidence of his existence is evidence that he doesn't exist..

    In it fundemental form, religion has and always will be a means for people to explain that which they can't explain.. It is not based in truth or any tangable evidence.. There is more proof of the existence of a hobbit than god or christ..
     
  9. Smartt33
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    Smartt33 Senior Member

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    Well, the proof of God is in us, and we know it by God's presence. You will discover it one day, sooner than later I hope. However, why are you arguing about it if it is a non-issue to you? We won't hurt you any m ore than you will hurt us. Relax.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2009
  10. foggedinn
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    foggedinn VIP Member

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    I believe you have it backwards. The very few times I have heard Christians say prove God doesn't exists are vastly outnumbered by athiests demanding proof that God does exist.

    Your post being a case in point.

    The solution to the riddle of angels and pins is proof of a universal negative. Of course, it takes an act of God to solve the riddle.
     

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