God = Allah = Abba = father

[AmericanFirst]

Conjecture. He also may have chosen to not say for His own purposes.

Then again, what could a Christian hating muslim tell a Christian about the nature of the Trinity?

First of all I don't hate Christians; and you will never find a post saying that I do.

Although, you have made it very clear that you hate Muslims and Islam.

I was a Christian for many years; taught sunday school, held Bible studies in my home, and even preached in church before I converted to Islam.

So most likely, I know the Bible just a well as you; if not better than you do.

Which is apparently so, because of the number of times I have had to correct you and the other Christians here on Bible issues.

This has been interesting to read,all these posts but in the past and present....Niether the Christians or Muslims have much to crow about........both are violent......some of you need to stop reading the Bible and Koran and read history to see how both sides have interpreted both books and Prophets and God/Allah.

Very dismal History indeed.

Yeah, bad history. Problem isn't with religion, it is with man using religion to further his own greed for power and wealth.

 

[auditor0007]

I hate to see someone's blind hatred and bigotry blind them to the truths that the Bible and Qur'an share.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Genesis 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Mark 14:36
“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

Many missionaries branded so-called Muslim forms of worship and religious vocabulary as wrong, without knowing that virtually all quranic religious vocabulary, including the name “Allah,” and virtually all the forms of worship, except those specifically related to Muhammad, were used by Jews and/or Christians before they were used by Muslims.

Who was

Just sayin'

Have you ever read the Quran? It is a very different book from the New Testament. Very little in common.

I respect everybody's religion. Saying that they are all the same is the deepest form of disrespect and religious intolerance.

The way I see it is this; either all religions are wrong or only one is right. They can't all be right. Either Jesus is the son of God and Christians have it right, or they have it completely wrong.

 

[logical4u]

Calling Christ a liar ain't too filled with love I hear.

I never called Jesus a liar.

I just basically said that the Christian interpretations of his words were in grave error and false.

You have chosen to ignore Yeshua's teachings in preference for a "prophet" that demands you believe in the "prophet" (your religion demands that you worship the "prophet"). You choose the false prophet that is different than all the other prophets of the OT, that you claim you "prophet" worships those other prophets' Lord. Yet, you will not see how blind you are. You will not see the obvious deception in your "prophet's" teachings.

 

[logical4u]

Matthew 3:16-17

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

Three separate things.

Jesus on Earth, The Spirit descending on Him, and God in Heaven speaking and naming Jesus as His son.

God and Jesus are not one in the same. They are separate beings.

John 8:28

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."

If God and Jesus were One, teaching wouldn't be needed. Jesus would already KNOW because God the Father knows.

Matthew12:32

For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come

If God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One, then speaking against one is speaking against all.

Matthew 24: 36

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father

Jesus does not possess the same knowledge as God.



John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am

Jesus clearly state He is not equal to God.


Luke 22:42 saying: Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let not my will, but yours take place

Jesus stating that His will is NOT the same as the will of God the Father,



So to review:

Jesus is not the same body as God, does not possess the same knowledge as God, speaking against Him is not as great a sin as even speaking against the Spirit of God, and Jesus and God have separate wills.

The Bible thus clearly states in no uncertain terms that Jesus is the Son of God, that he is a separate being and is NOT God the Father.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Only one of those quotes are from the actual words of Jesus or God. Additionally, Thomas' words do not make Jesus and God one in the same being. The fact that Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for tose words only speaks to the divinity of Christ not as to his "oneness: with the Father.

Nice how you began at John 10:30 completely missing John 10:29

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

and you missed the fact that the great works are from His Father, not from Him. Seperate beings.


John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was

Seperate beings

Before this, who declared Yaweh to be "their" Father (not the God of all, not the Creator of all, but their "Father)?

 

[logical4u]

So Jesus/God hid from himself?

What a bunch of nonsense!!

Yes I believe he did. It makes his plan of salvation more significant. If he was in his God form he would not have suffered on the cross.

Actually if it was God and not His Son then it makes it LESS significant. And is Biblically inaccurate.

The concept of sacrificing His Son comes from the fact that Abraham was willing to sacrifice his beloved son to God. Therefore, to complete the covenant, God had to show He was willing to sacrifice His Son for man. He had to sacrifice that which He loved, not Himself, as He had commanded Abraham to do.

If He came down in the flesh Himself, it would not fulfill the covenant He had with Abraham.





and Im sorry, Sunni, but this is where Islam falls short. It ignores the parallel between Jesus and Abrahams son. ( I say Abrahams son because I know that some believe that it was actually Ishmael who Abraham took to be sacrificed, not Isaac. I will not comment on that controversy ) The covenant between God and Abraham was an exchange of loyalty. If Jesus is NOT the Son of God and was NOT the sacrifice God made, as He directed Abraham, then God has yet to fulfill that covenant, to anyone.

There is another school of thought on Abraham and Issac with the sacrifice story: the Lord saw human sacrifice as an abomination (that was what those that worshipped Molech did, as well as other gods that were banished in the New Covenant: Yeshua's fullfillment). The Lord made this a hard lesson for Abraham, that human sacrifice was not acceptable to him.

Yeshua was murdered and accepted by the Lord, raised up out of death, that every person, may also be raised up, out of death. Yeshua's "sacrifice" was the knowledge that He would suffer and be murdered in human form. He did not comitt suicide (sacrifice himself), but was murdered by those that looked more to the treasures of this world (like most of us would). Today, we have a choice: look to the treasures of this world, or prepare for eternity. It is an individual's choice, unlike islam, where you agree with the local cleric or live at the "holy man's" pleasure.

 

[logical4u]

When He comes back, and the two edged sword proceeds from his mouth - you will realize that He is the Word of God that became flesh, and every knee will bow, and proclaim Him to be Lord!

Yes, yes...everyone who doesnt believe exactly as you do will burn in Hell. How very judge not lest you be judged of you.

Where did he "judge" you? Where did he tell you that you would burn in hell?

We have no AUTHORITY to "judge" you. We can tell you what is in the Bible, but the decisions you make are yours. Do not cry to us when you are front of the Lord and being judged for your sins (as we will be, also). We are just letting you know there is a just Lord, and that you will kneel before Him. How "you" use that information is entirely up to you.

 

[logical4u]

Sorry bout that,

"jesus is not the father in heaven that people kneel and bob to."


1. Whos says?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

The "legion" (millions of them, just ask Sunni).

 

[logical4u]

First of all I don't hate Christians; and you will never find a post saying that I do.

Although, you have made it very clear that you hate Muslims and Islam.

I was a Christian for many years; taught sunday school, held Bible studies in my home, and even preached in church before I converted to Islam.

So most likely, I know the Bible just a well as you; if not better than you do.

Which is apparently so, because of the number of times I have had to correct you and the other Christians here on Bible issues.

This has been interesting to read,all these posts but in the past and present....Niether the Christians or Muslims have much to crow about........both are violent......some of you need to stop reading the Bible and Koran and read history to see how both sides have interpreted both books and Prophets and God/Allah.

Very dismal History indeed.

Yeah, very disheartening to say the least. I am a Christian. We just went over this violent history in the Christianity last night at Bible study. Thing is you cannot judge all Christians or muslims on the actions of some misguided people. Those that slaughter others in the name of religion are liars, they are really doing it for other reasons. The crusades were a power grab and violence against jews and muslims. The spaniards killed for gold. They used religion to excuse their evil.

Correction: the crusades were to "stop" the invasion of muslims (they had invaded the ME, and all the Med. area and were set on keeping Jerusalem isolated from Christians, or they could come for a "price"). If they had not done the crusades, you, too would be bowing to the east. It was a DEFENSIVE campaign.

 

[AmericanFirst]

This has been interesting to read,all these posts but in the past and present....Niether the Christians or Muslims have much to crow about........both are violent......some of you need to stop reading the Bible and Koran and read history to see how both sides have interpreted both books and Prophets and God/Allah.

Very dismal History indeed.

Yeah, very disheartening to say the least. I am a Christian. We just went over this violent history in the Christianity last night at Bible study. Thing is you cannot judge all Christians or muslims on the actions of some misguided people. Those that slaughter others in the name of religion are liars, they are really doing it for other reasons. The crusades were a power grab and violence against jews and muslims. The spaniards killed for gold. They used religion to excuse their evil.

Correction: the crusades were to "stop" the invasion of muslims (they had invaded the ME, and all the Med. area and were set on keeping Jerusalem isolated from Christians, or they could come for a "price"). If they had not done the crusades, you, too would be bowing to the east. It was a DEFENSIVE campaign.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[JenT]

God is the generic word for many names of God. It's unfortunate we didn't stick with Eloheim or El Shaddai, then there wouldn't be so much confusion with Allah.

Did you know the phonetic Hebrew word for Allah is:

אלה
'âlâh
aw-law'
A primitive root (rather identical with H422 through the idea of invocation); to bewail: - lament.

אלה
'âlâh
aw-law'
A primitive root; properly to adjure, that is, (usually in a bad sense) imprecate: - adjure, curse, swear.

As for equating all gods as one, it doesn't wash. Muslims know it as well, that's why their law is to kill anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity.

Sure there is a Jesus in the Islamic beliefs, but their belief is that He is no more than a prophet that was able to do a few healings. That's not all that Christ is to a Christian, not by a long shot.

Similarities in beliefs? Sure. That's what happens when a man decides he is a prophet and tries to convince the Jews and the Christians that he knows their religions better than they do and instead creates a third, mixing up all the beliefs and then claiming his book usurps all others then butchers them when they disagree.

That doesn't make it the same god. Far from it.

A twisted man's convoluted ideas about what God the Father wants doesn't diminish His divinity.

IOW..... Same Father, different interpretations.

Don't be ridiculous. God is not defined by what man wants him to be. They try to convince our kids of that in public school but it's a total FAIL.

I suppose they would all seem the same to an atheist, but apart from what everyone believes, God IS. And He told us who He is in the Bible, through the prophets and through Christ Himself.

 

[Roudy]

I hate to see someone's blind hatred and bigotry blind them to the truths that the Bible and Qur'an share.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Genesis 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Mark 14:36
“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

Many missionaries branded so-called Muslim forms of worship and religious vocabulary as wrong, without knowing that virtually all quranic religious vocabulary, including the name “Allah,” and virtually all the forms of worship, except those specifically related to Muhammad, were used by Jews and/or Christians before they were used by Muslims.

Who was

Just sayin'

The quran is nothing but lies taken from the Bible by the liar mohammed. Allah is not the god of Abraham, Izaac, and Jacob, Jehova is. Allah is satan.

Koran = Terrorist Handbook.

 

[NeoTemplar]

I always laugh when I hear Christian denigrate the name "Allah".

The word Allah just means "The God" in arabic.

If you go to a Christian church anywhere in the Middle East. Their services are conducted in the Arabic language and their Bibles are printed in Arabic.

If you open their Bible you will see that they use the word "Allah" instead of "God" or "Lord" like in the English translation of the King James Bible.

Technically it means One God but the actually arabic word for the God of Judaism and Christianity is Ĕlāhā not Allāh, the Allāh of the Quran is actually a fusion of two pagan Gods and Muhammad father, the two were Meccan Gods Hubāl the father and Allāh the creator who were the chief gods of the Meccan pantheon at the time the Muslims conquered the city. Muhammad own father was also named Abd-Allah from whom Muhammad learned the ways of the Ka'ba priesthood. Abd-Allah means worshiper of Allāh but over time it was corrupted and became Allāh al-ʾAb which means God of The Father in other words the Allāh in the Quran is literally the God of Muhammads father and Muhammad himself lived 600 years after the bible was completed and plagiarized certain aspects of the bible combining it with the teachings he learned of the Ka'ba to create Islam the resulting conclusion is that the Allāh in the Quran is a deified version of Muhammads own father.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Technically it means One God but the actually arabic word for the God of Judaism and Christianity is Ĕlāhā not Allāh, the Allāh of the Quran is actually a fusion of two pagan Gods and Muhammad father, the two were Meccan Gods Hubāl the father and Allāh the creator who were the chief gods of the Meccan pantheon at the time the Muslims conquered the city. Muhammad own father was also named Abd-Allah from whom Muhammad learned the ways of the Ka'ba priesthood. Abd-Allah means worshiper of Allāh but over time it was corrupted and became Allāh al-ʾAb which means God of The Father in other words the Allāh in the Quran is literally the God of Muhammads father and Muhammad himself lived 600 years after the bible was completed and plagiarized certain aspects of the bible combining it with the teachings he learned of the Ka'ba to create Islam the resulting conclusion is that the Allāh in the Quran is a deified version of Muhammads own father.

Let us not forget the offspring of Al-Elah and Hubal: Allat, 'Uzza and Manat - the three goddesses who are mentioned in the Koran.