God = Allah = Abba = father

If a Muslim "worships" Jesus he is no longer a Muslim, Jesus is a prophet in the Quran but for a Muslim you have to believe in God and Prophet Muhammed is his messenger, theres not alot of wiggle room on this with Islam.


Absolutely true.
I realize that the Koran merely sees the Christ Jesus as just the prophet Jesus.

The point of my OP was to try to separate Mohammad from the equation - which is obviously who/what is wrong with most people's interpretations of the Qur'an - right along with Jesus.

Ignore the divinity, or lack thereof, of either Jesus or Mohammad for the moment.

I'm only speaking of the Father.

We all know how out of whack different people's translations can be of their favorite holy book.
Son of Sam
Jim Jones
Benny Hinn
.....the list goes on

:eusa_angel:
 
Muslims and Christians and Jews all worship the god of Abraham do they not?

Yes. But stupid people - of all faiths or of no faith - are welcome to whine about it.
Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?
The Torah does Not say that God rejected Ishmael.

In fact, it says the God blessed Ishmael and made him the Father of a great nation.
 
Muslims and Christians and Jews all worship the god of Abraham do they not?

Yes. But stupid people - of all faiths or of no faith - are welcome to whine about it.
Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?

No. The Bible says that God sent an Angel to save Hagar and Ishmael and promised to make a "great nation" of Ishmael.

Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.”
Genesis 21:17-18
 
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Yes. But stupid people - of all faiths or of no faith - are welcome to whine about it.
Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?
The Torah does Not say that God rejected Ishmael.

In fact, it says the God blessed Ishmael and made him the Father of a great nation.
Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.
 
Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?
The Torah does Not say that God rejected Ishmael.

In fact, it says the God blessed Ishmael and made him the Father of a great nation.
Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.
Actually, the Covenant was with Abraham. :eusa_angel:
 
Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?
The Torah does Not say that God rejected Ishmael.

In fact, it says the God blessed Ishmael and made him the Father of a great nation.
Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.

As Muslims believe that the God they are worshipping is the God of Abraham, and the God of Abraham is the God of the Christians, then yes, technically, they are one and the same.
 
No. The Bible says that God sent an Angel to save Hagar and Ishmael and promised to make a "great nation" of Ishmael.

I will surely bless Ishmael; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. - God

A father of twelve rulers, father of a great nation? Sounds familiar. St. Paul essentially reverses Isaac and Ishmael, and explains that the Jews are the children of Hagar (thus, Ishmael). But, I know this is far above the heads around here...
 
No. The Bible says that God sent an Angel to save Hagar and Ishmael and promised to make a "great nation" of Ishmael.

I will surely bless Ishmael; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. - God

A father of twelve rulers, father of a great nation? Sounds familiar. St. Paul essentially reverses Isaac and Ishmael, and explains that the Jews are the children of Hagar (thus, Ishmael). But, I know this is far above the heads around here...


Sigh...no. The Hebrews are decended from Isaac.
 
Ignore the divinity, or lack thereof, of either Jesus or Mohammad for the moment.

The divinity of Jesus Christ is one of the central points of Christianity, as is his oneness with the Father.

Trinity is not a universally accepted doctrine even in Christianity.

And that wasn't what he was saying.

He's saying that God the Father and Allah are both the God of Abraham and therefore one in the same. And to see that you have to set aside the misconception that Jesus is God the Father made flesh as God the Son.
 
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I hate to see someone's blind hatred and bigotry blind them to the truths that the Bible and Qur'an share.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Genesis 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Mark 14:36
“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”



Many missionaries branded so-called Muslim forms of worship and religious vocabulary as wrong, without knowing that virtually all quranic religious vocabulary, including the name “Allah,” and virtually all the forms of worship, except those specifically related to Muhammad, were used by Jews and/or Christians before they were used by Muslims.
Who was

Just sayin'
:eusa_angel:


A wee bit further study may help you. All the difference that matters there.

Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an
http://carm.org/differences-between-bible-and-quran


Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine
http://carm.org/religious-movements/islam/comparison-grid-between-christianity-and-islamic-doctrine



.
 
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I hate to see someone's blind hatred and bigotry blind them to the truths that the Bible and Qur'an share.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Genesis 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Mark 14:36
“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”



Many missionaries branded so-called Muslim forms of worship and religious vocabulary as wrong, without knowing that virtually all quranic religious vocabulary, including the name “Allah,” and virtually all the forms of worship, except those specifically related to Muhammad, were used by Jews and/or Christians before they were used by Muslims.
Who was

Just sayin'
:eusa_angel:


A wee bit further study may help you. All the difference that matters there.

Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an
Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry


Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine
Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry



.


There are differences between Catholics, Baptists, Pentocostals, Unitarians and Jehovah Witnesses as well.

His point was to highlight the truths that both Islam and Christianity share, no one is saying they are the same thing. If they were, they wouldn't need different designations.
 
Ignore the divinity, or lack thereof, of either Jesus or Mohammad for the moment.

The divinity of Jesus Christ is one of the central points of Christianity, as is his oneness with the Father.

Trinity is not a universally accepted doctrine even in Christianity.

And that wasn't what he was saying.

He's saying that God the Father and Allah are both the God of Abraham and therefore one in the same. And to see that you have to set aside the misconception that Jesus is God the Father made flesh as God the Son.

The idea that you can discuss the God of Christianity while shoving aside Christ is a bit ludicrous.
 
I hate to see someone's blind hatred and bigotry blind them to the truths that the Bible and Qur'an share.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Genesis 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Mark 14:36
“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”




Who was

Just sayin'
:eusa_angel:


A wee bit further study may help you. All the difference that matters there.

Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an
Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry


Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine
Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry



.


There are differences between Catholics, Baptists, Pentocostals, Unitarians and Jehovah Witnesses as well.

His point was to highlight the truths that both Islam and Christianity share, no one is saying they are the same thing. If they were, they wouldn't need different designations.


Actually Christianity and Islam have very little in common. To say otherwise is an insult to both.
 
The Torah does Not say that God rejected Ishmael.

In fact, it says the God blessed Ishmael and made him the Father of a great nation.
Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.

As Muslims believe that the God they are worshipping is the God of Abraham, and the God of Abraham is the God of the Christians, then yes, technically, they are one and the same.
Yes, they believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

Remember that No one can approach the Father save through Christ. To Islam Jesus is a prophet, nothing more. Not the Son of God, not the Savior of all mankind, not the only path to Him.

So either Allah is not the same or Christ was lying. Or there's a chance Mohammad was lying, just to be thorough.
 
The idea that you can discuss the God of Christianity while shoving aside Christ is a bit ludicrous.

Do Christians not believe that their God is also the God of the Jews?

If so, then He can be considered independently of Christ, and recognized as the same as the God of Muslims, too. Christians and Muslims simply have different ideas about how to go about worshiping God.

All ideas about God are metaphors anyway. There is no way to encompass infinity with the human mind. We cannot drink the ocean dry, but if we trust its buoyancy we can swim in it.

Religious ideas and practices are like a great wheel, where God is at the hub and the human mind at the edge. Each religion may be thought of as a spoke connecting the edge with the hub. At the edge, differences abound, but in the center, in the hub, in God, all are one. Those who emphasize the differences among religions instead of the One towards which they all point will remain on the edge, never reaching the center.
 
The idea that you can discuss the God of Christianity while shoving aside Christ is a bit ludicrous.

Do Christians not believe that their God is also the God of the Jews?

If so, then He can be considered independently of Christ, and recognized as the same as the God of Muslims, too. Christians and Muslims simply have different ideas about how to go about worshiping God.

All ideas about God are metaphors anyway. There is no way to encompass infinity with the human mind. We cannot drink the ocean dry, but if we trust its buoyancy we can swim in it.

Religious ideas and practices are like a great wheel, where God is at the hub and the human mind at the edge. Each religion may be thought of as a spoke connecting the edge with the hub. At the edge, differences abound, but in the center, in the hub, in God, all are one. Those who emphasize the differences among religions instead of the One towards which they all point will remain on the edge, never reaching the center.

Why are you so intolerant of religious diversity. The idea that all religions point towards the same is extremely intolerant.
 
Why are you so intolerant of religious diversity.

I am not. I am intolerant of religious intolerance.

The idea that all religions point towards the same is extremely intolerant.

Yeah, well, show me a case of a jihad, Crusade, or Inquisition being conducted by people who believe that and I'll take your nonsense here seriously.

Meanwhile, ask yourself this. Is God real, or is he just something people make up?

If he's real, then all ideas of him are pointing to the same reality. If he's just something people make up, then religious ideas are not pointing to the same reality because there is no reality to point to.

So what you're saying here, in effect, is that God does not really exist. The dogmatist and the atheist, at root, believe the same thing.
 
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Why are you so intolerant of religious diversity.

I am not. I am intolerant of religious intolerance.

The idea that all religions point towards the same is extremely intolerant.

Yeah, well, show me a case of a jihad, Crusade, or Inquisition being conducted by people who believe that and I'll take your nonsense here seriously.
:rofl:

Yeah... rrrriiiiiiiiiiiight! Not intolerant.

:cuckoo:
 

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