Go On Record Here About The Mandate

[NYcarbineer]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

This is how it works;

If you buy or have ins, you're all good.

If you don't, and are too poor or dumb to get it, everyone else pays for you through taxes.

If you don't, but can, you get taxed on doing nothing.


Yes that's right, the government now taxes nothing.

The government already does that. The government taxes you for not having kids.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

That's a misrepresentation. You are not forced to buy health insurance, but you lose a tax benefit if you don't.

It's no different than having or not having children. The government does not force you to have children,

but you will be heavily penalized on your total tax liability if you don't. lol, I ought to know.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is it okay to force someone to buy health insurance against their will and tax them if they don't?

No one is ‘forced’ to buy health insurance, the tax is not punitive and is no more or less appropriate than any other taxing provision.

Yeah, right, and you aren't forced to hand over all your cash to mugger because you can choose to take a bullet instead. Stalin would love your understanding of the word "voluntary."

Be definition, the "tax" is punitive since it's penalty for not buying health insurance. Only the most servile species of government toady would claim otherwise.

For republicans, conservatives, libertarians, and the rest of the president’s enemies on the right, however, relating the facts of the issue is pointless, as they’ll blindly adhere to their partisan lies and contrivances, willfully ignorant of the truth.

You wouldn't know a fact if someone beat you to death with one.

My tax penalty for not having children has amounted to a few thousand dollars a year, every year.

Is that punitive?

 

[sfcalifornia]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

I find it strange that we're talking "liberty", when it's really about people taking responsibility for their own care, instead of leaving to the rest us. If people want to take the calculated risk, shouldn't we be leaving them where they lie, given the worst? Since we don't, it boils down to the right defending one class of freeloaders, while deploring others. Explain that to me!

That's inhumane and inexcusable, given the US is the richest country on earth by a wide margin. Compound that with the fact that many of those without access to medical care would be children who don't have much of a say in their healthcare, we can't be leaving them where they lie if their parents are stupid enough to fail at their calculated risk. The ACA mandate makes sure kids et al. won't be left out in the cold.

 

[sfcalifornia]

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

Interesting how you don't see the right pissing and moaning about how much tax dollars go into the national defense of our nation.

Is national defense a right or a privilege? Is it in our best interest to have a strong national defense? Something that affects ALL of us is in our best interest IMO. Education and healthcare fall into that category too. It's in ALL of our best interest to be as smart as we can be and as healthy as we can be, so why does the right continue to piss and moan about tax dollars going into education and healthcare but not national defense?

 

[Stephanie]

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

Interesting how you don't see the right pissing and moaning about how much tax dollars go into the national defense of our nation.

Is national defense a right or a privilege? Is it in our best interest to have a strong national defense? Something that affects ALL of us is in our best interest IMO. Education and healthcare fall into that category too. It's in ALL of our best interest to be as smart as we can be and as healthy as we can be, so why does the right continue to piss and moan about tax dollars going into education and healthcare but not national defense?

omg

 

[Missourian]

Inthemiddle hit the nail on the head.

IMO, based on the tax founded constitutionality, what Obama and the Democrats essentially did was raise taxes on every American with a tax credit of 100% of that increase IF you choose to purchase a GOVERNMENT APPROVED insurance policy, or receive a GOVERNMENT APPROVED waiver.

If you can prove that you can't afford a Government Approved healthcare insurance plan, the tax increase will be waived, plus you will receive a tax payer subsidized entitlement to a Government Approved healthcare plan.

 

[JohnA]

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

Interesting how you don't see the right pissing and moaning about how much tax dollars go into the national defense of our nation.

Is national defense a right or a privilege? Is it in our best interest to have a strong national defense? Something that affects ALL of us is in our best interest IMO. Education and healthcare fall into that category too. It's in ALL of our best interest to be as smart as we can be and as healthy as we can be, so why does the right continue to piss and moan about tax dollars going into education and healthcare but not national defense?

omg

national defense is a OBLIGATION


its part of the oath govt officials and and military officers take before undertaking their duties
infact it proberly is the only obligation that the federal govt should be involved in ,
all other duties should be undertaken by the individual states ..as per the foundling fathers intended .




Against All Enemies







The elected and appointed officials of our federal government take an oath of office before undertaking their constitutional duties.

Do you solemnly swear that you will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that you take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which you are about to enter: So help you God? .

 

[tjvh]

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

Forget that the Constitution only covers defense to be handled by the Government in those examples you mention.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Inthemiddle hit the nail on the head.

IMO, based on the tax founded constitutionality, what Obama and the Democrats essentially did was raise taxes on every American with a tax credit of 100% of that increase IF you choose to purchase a GOVERNMENT APPROVED insurance policy, or receive a GOVERNMENT APPROVED waiver.

If you can prove that you can't afford a Government Approved healthcare insurance plan, the tax increase will be waived, plus you will receive a tax payer subsidized entitlement to a Government Approved healthcare plan.

Then if it is a tax how come the bill that made it legal did not originate in the House ways and means committee like every other tax?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

The mandate's shared responsibility payment will only be levied on those who do not purchase health insurance. Many people are covered by employer health plans or government health plans. Employers might just give employees a health insurance payment to pay their individual insurance. Tax payers already pay for the uninsured.

stop all deadbeats: demand shared responsibility

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I thought it was a tax not a mandate.

gawd, you people are dumb as dirt as well as pathetic.

the mandate is neither a tax nor a penalty.

the mandate requires a shared responsibility payment of those who do not purchase health insurance.

the shared responsibility payment is the penalty that was ruled a tax for constitutional purposes.

read the fucking manual.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I thought it was a tax not a mandate.

well, you could say it's a mandated TAX. couldn't you?

you were attempting a joke.

fact is, the payment is mandated. the payment was called a penalty in the text of the law, but Roberts ruled (citing precedent and more...) that Congress can call the payment anything it wants, but that doesn't make a tax anything other than a tax.

so yes (partly) it is a mandated tax -- only on those who do not purchase health insurance.

in Massachusetts, Romneycare's mandated tax payment affects what around 1% of citizens?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I thought it was a tax not a mandate.

gawd, you people are dumb as dirt as well as pathetic.

the mandate is neither a tax nor a penalty.

the mandate requires a shared responsibility payment of those who do not purchase health insurance.

the shared responsibility payment is the penalty that was ruled a tax for constitutional purposes.

read the fucking manual.

Why do you always leave out the "government approved" modifier when saying health insurance?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I thought it was a tax not a mandate.

gawd, you people are dumb as dirt as well as pathetic.

the mandate is neither a tax nor a penalty.

the mandate requires a shared responsibility payment of those who do not purchase health insurance.

the shared responsibility payment is the penalty that was ruled a tax for constitutional purposes.

read the fucking manual.

Why do you always leave out the "government approved" modifier when saying health insurance?

because many people will have private health insurance?

 

[FA_Q2]

There is no mandate...only a tax.

No different than giving a tax break for buying solar panels or a hybrid.

In truth, there is little difference and this practice should be outright illegal as well. Congress has no right incentivizing the purchase of solar panels any more than they have the right to incentivize purchasing a chicken sandwich over a Big Mac.

Doh! DBlack beat me to it...

This is how it works;

If you buy or have ins, you're all good.

If you don't, and are too poor or dumb to get it, everyone else pays for you through taxes.

If you don't, but can, you get taxed on doing nothing.


Yes that's right, the government now taxes nothing.

On the short term....it looks like it will be all to attractive for small businesses to drop you and pay you money to hope into an exchange...whereby you become subsidized in several respects by the American Taxpayer.

Just Great !

sorry, but no

My friend runs a club security biz in NYC.

4 years ago he had posters of obama on his wall, this year he is voting for Mitt.

why?

He got a notice that for every full time employee or it's equivalent (2 people working 18.1 hours) he had to buy them ins or be fined $2000 dollars for each equivalent.

He's probably going to have to close, since he can't afford either, and he can't pass it on and still get work.

Then he should read the bill. If I am not mistaken, all places of business do not have to pay anything as long as they remain under 50 employees.

That creates another problem though. The 50th employee cost a business 100K before they pay for ANYTHING else (pay, training, taxes ect.) and I can see many businesses that are close to that mark are going to fire people to get there and many others simply will not grow over the 49th employee...

He also drove a stake through the heart of Congress wtholding funds if states dont do as Congress commands them to; an unanticipated freebee that will have far more pro-freedom implications down the road than all the rest of it.

How so? I have seen nothing that hints at this. The court did say they could not withhold all the old funding of Medicare if they did not want to accept the changes to the new system BUT I fail to see how that has any bearing on the overall practice of withholding cash to force a state to do something. I would whole heartedly welcome such a ruling but I do not believe that such has come to pass.

 

[Skull Pilot]

gawd, you people are dumb as dirt as well as pathetic.

the mandate is neither a tax nor a penalty.

the mandate requires a shared responsibility payment of those who do not purchase health insurance.

the shared responsibility payment is the penalty that was ruled a tax for constitutional purposes.

read the fucking manual.

Why do you always leave out the "government approved" modifier when saying health insurance?

because many people will have private health insurance?

Many people who have private insurance do not have "government approved" insurance.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Why do you always leave out the "government approved" modifier when saying health insurance?

because many people will have private health insurance?

Many people who have private insurance do not have "government approved" insurance.

'what planet are you from, mad man? talking to you is like talking to my stools in the toilet'

 

[Skull Pilot]

because many people will have private health insurance?

Many people who have private insurance do not have "government approved" insurance.

'what planet are you from, mad man? talking to you is like talking to my stools in the toilet'

If your insurance plan does not cover certain things then it is not government approved you fucking moron.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Many people who have private insurance do not have "government approved" insurance.

'what planet are you from, mad man? talking to you is like talking to my stools in the toilet'

If your insurance plan does not cover certain things then it is not government approved you fucking moron.

insurance will cover things because insurance industry is regulated. how fucking stupid can a man be?