Go On Record Here About The Mandate

[JimBowie1958]

One thing that no one is mentioning here is that this so called tax that's not really a tax actually gives the senate more power.

All taxes originate in the house ways and means committee then are sent to the house first and then the senate.

The Obamatax originated in the senate and then went to the house completely bypassing the ways and means committee.

It's ass backwards but then again it's Obama

Maybe this procedural error can be used to kill the mandate?

No one has challenged it yet on those grounds, have they?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone did. Who would have standing to take it to court?

 

[Sallow]

Is it okay to force someone to buy health insurance against their will and tax them if they don't?

No one is ‘forced’ to buy health insurance, the tax is not punitive and is no more or less appropriate than any other taxing provision.

For republicans, conservatives, libertarians, and the rest of the president’s enemies on the right, however, relating the facts of the issue is pointless, as they’ll blindly adhere to their partisan lies and contrivances, willfully ignorant of the truth.

Adam_Clayton_Powell just lied. He flatly lied. Congress even called it a PENALTY. A penalty, dimwit, IS punitive.

Sorta.

It's a penalty with no teeth.

It's not enforced. Nobody can come after you if you refuse to pay the tax.

In fact..nothing happens.

 

[Ravi]

There is no mandate...only a tax.

No different than giving a tax break for buying solar panels or a hybrid.

This.

I don't really have a problem with the government, in some instances, forcing people to take personal responsibility. Which is exactly what this tax penalty is meant to do.

 

[Ravi]

And it would be most helpful if someone would reiterate they argument about why it is okay that a state makes you buy auto insurance but why it is not okay to be forced to buy health insurance.

What I have always heard as a retort to the auto insurance argument is that you have a choice of whether or not to own a car, whereas you don't have a choice to buy health insurance with a mandate. That it is about personal freedom to choose.

Is this correct?

Not exactly.

The States regulate drivers' licenses and the ownership/registration of vehicles. Driving is a privilege, not a "right."

As a CONDITION imposed on the granted privilege, the STATE is authorized to require drivers to have insurance.

To complete the analogy, honestly, for the ObamaCare mandated health care insurance, one would HAVE to claim that living is a privilege, not a right.

Can we ring that up as a "no sale?"

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

 

[dblack]

And it would be most helpful if someone would reiterate they argument about why it is okay that a state makes you buy auto insurance but why it is not okay to be forced to buy health insurance.

What I have always heard as a retort to the auto insurance argument is that you have a choice of whether or not to own a car, whereas you don't have a choice to buy health insurance with a mandate. That it is about personal freedom to choose.

Is this correct?

Not exactly.

The States regulate drivers' licenses and the ownership/registration of vehicles. Driving is a privilege, not a "right."

As a CONDITION imposed on the granted privilege, the STATE is authorized to require drivers to have insurance.

To complete the analogy, honestly, for the ObamaCare mandated health care insurance, one would HAVE to claim that living is a privilege, not a right.

Can we ring that up as a "no sale?"

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

Neither. It's a service.

 

[dblack]

There is no mandate...only a tax.

No different than giving a tax break for buying solar panels or a hybrid.

This.

I don't really have a problem with the government, in some instances, forcing people to take personal responsibility. Which is exactly what this tax penalty is meant to do.

NO, it is the opposite. Personal responsibility is being accountable for the decisions you make. When someone else makes those decisions for you, there is no responsibility, only obedience.

 

[dblack]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

The government has long been doing the exact same thing in effect.

Yes, they have. And hopefully the ACA debacle will wake us up to the true nature of this corrupt practice. Tax incentives ARE mandates.

 

[konradv]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

I find it strange that we're talking "liberty", when it's really about people taking responsibility for their own care, instead of leaving to the rest us. If people want to take the calculated risk, shouldn't we be leaving them where they lie, given the worst? Since we don't, it boils down to the right defending one class of freeloaders, while deploring others. Explain that to me!

 

[dblack]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

I find it strange that we're talking "liberty", when it's really about people taking responsibility for their own care, instead of leaving to the rest us.

It seems strange to you because don't recognize the intimate connection between liberty and responsibility. If you aren't free to decide for yourself how to manage your health care, you can't be responsible for the outcome. The problem here is EMTALA, not people who think insurance is stupid.

 

[Seawytch]

And it would be most helpful if someone would reiterate they argument about why it is okay that a state makes you buy auto insurance but why it is not okay to be forced to buy health insurance.

What I have always heard as a retort to the auto insurance argument is that you have a choice of whether or not to own a car, whereas you don't have a choice to buy health insurance with a mandate. That it is about personal freedom to choose.

Is this correct?

No. You don't have a choice to make ME pay for YOUR healthcare in the most expensive way possible. Yeah, you do have a choice whether or not to buy a car, but you won't have a choice when your bashed up body is brought into the emergency room and your life is saved with my tax dollars and my insurance premiums. And the hospital doesn't have a choice in whether or not to patch you up just because you don't have insurance, they have to.

Now, I do believe that a good fix to the mandate is a Public Option. Then you're not being forced to buy a product from a private company, but are instead investing in yourself and other Americans. Make Medicare the Public Option and let anyone that wants to, at any age, buy into it. Put Medicare on the state exchanges in EVERY state and let people choose between a private and the public plan. Get those young, healthy people paying into the system and helping out Grandma and Grandpa. They'll need it eventually and this way it would still be there for them.

 

[Ravi]

Not exactly.

The States regulate drivers' licenses and the ownership/registration of vehicles. Driving is a privilege, not a "right."

As a CONDITION imposed on the granted privilege, the STATE is authorized to require drivers to have insurance.

To complete the analogy, honestly, for the ObamaCare mandated health care insurance, one would HAVE to claim that living is a privilege, not a right.

Can we ring that up as a "no sale?"

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

Neither. It's a service.

that would make it a privilege....

 

[Ravi]

There is no mandate...only a tax.

No different than giving a tax break for buying solar panels or a hybrid.

This.

I don't really have a problem with the government, in some instances, forcing people to take personal responsibility. Which is exactly what this tax penalty is meant to do.

NO, it is the opposite. Personal responsibility is being accountable for the decisions you make. When someone else makes those decisions for you, there is no responsibility, only obedience.

Then you will have to get rid of the rule that forces hospitals to provide emergency medical treatment.

 

[konradv]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

I find it strange that we're talking "liberty", when it's really about people taking responsibility for their own care, instead of leaving to the rest us.

It seems strange to you because don't recognize the intimate connection between liberty and responsibility. If you aren't free to decide for yourself how to manage your health care, you can't be responsible for the outcome. The problem here is EMTALA, not people who think insurance is stupid.

That's a pretty hypocritical editing of my post. You took out my request to explain why you're defending freeloaders.

Negged

 

[Seawytch]

Is forcing someone to buy health insurance okay or not?

I find it strange that we're talking "liberty", when it's really about people taking responsibility for their own care, instead of leaving to the rest us.

Is that why Presidential Candidate Willard "Mitt" Romney called it his "Personal Responsibility Mandate" or some such shit?

If people want to take the calculated risk, shouldn't we be leaving them where they lie, given the worst?

No. That would be immoral (and illegal).

Since we don't, it boils down to the right defending one class of freeloaders, while deploring others. Explain that to me!

Except one set of "freeloaders" are people who can afford insurance and choose not to get it, while the other set of "freeloaders" are the poor, the unemployed and the underemployed that can't afford to piss in a pay toilet. And which "set" does the right rail about the most?

 

[Seawytch]

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

 

[Stephanie]

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

and elected idiots should be in charge of all that.
sounds like utopia to me

 

[RDD_1210]

There is no mandate...only a tax.

No different than giving a tax break for buying solar panels or a hybrid.

This.

I don't really have a problem with the government, in some instances, forcing people to take personal responsibility. Which is exactly what this tax penalty is meant to do.

NO, it is the opposite. Personal responsibility is being accountable for the decisions you make. When someone else makes those decisions for you, there is no responsibility, only obedience.

You mean like the decision someones makes to not buy health insurance and thus raise MY rates?

 

[Seawytch]

We aren't talking about living, though. We're talking about health care. Is health care a right or a privilege?

It is a right on par with education and the defense of our nation. Our national resources are pooled to provide both of those and so it should be with our health.

and elected idiots should be in charge of all that.
sounds like utopia to me

Better elected "idiots" I can vote out as opposed to insurance company idiots I can't.

 

[Skull Pilot]

This.

I don't really have a problem with the government, in some instances, forcing people to take personal responsibility. Which is exactly what this tax penalty is meant to do.

NO, it is the opposite. Personal responsibility is being accountable for the decisions you make. When someone else makes those decisions for you, there is no responsibility, only obedience.

You mean like the decision someones makes to not buy health insurance and thus raise MY rates?

I have insurance but the fucking government is now telling us that just having insurance isn't enough. I have to buy a policy that covers shit I neither want nor need and thus will have to pay more than I do now.

 

[JohnA]

This.

I don't really have a problem with the government, in some instances, forcing people to take personal responsibility. Which is exactly what this tax penalty is meant to do.

NO, it is the opposite. Personal responsibility is being accountable for the decisions you make. When someone else makes those decisions for you, there is no responsibility, only obedience.

You mean like the decision someones makes to not buy health insurance and thus raise MY rates?

your rates are what they are.
you can get relief if people like me ARE MANDATED to buy insurance they dont want just to keep your rates down .
its like if people like you didnt need all the govt services you enjoy my taxes would go down
works both ways