Go Green they said

[Manonthestreet]

Reuters) - An innovative, government-sponsored program aimed at funding energy-saving home improvements has drawn praise from powerful supporters, including President Obama. But complaints from a growing number of homeowners, lenders and realtors in California suggest the financing is making homes more difficult to sell and disrupting the mortgage market. Green financing has hobbled home sales in California
I think the flaw here was not recognizing the homeowner would be able to sell the house for more thus recouping some or all of his investment besides the savings generated by the project, trying to profit twice.

 

[elektra]

$40,000 per home, that is a small price to pay for some of your electricity. With better government dictates, somebody else can pay for that.

Green financing has hobbled home sales in California
Sancho Lopez, a Riverside police officer and homeowner in an adjacent county, experienced the problem first-hand. He and his wife financed the $40,000 cost of 21 dual-pane, energy efficient windows and two sliding doors with a PACE loan. When they decided to sell their house, their realtor warned them it wouldn’t be easy.

 

[Old Rocks]

Lesson here. Finance it yourself. A second, or cash out of savings.

Do Solar Panels Increase Property Value? | EnergySage

< NEWS FEED
New Report Says Solar Panels Increase Home Value
2 REPLIES

Installing solar panels can significantly increase your property’s value, according to a new study from the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab (LBL). The report, titled “Selling into the sun: Price premium analysis of a multi-state dataset of solar homes“, builds on previous research which concluded that homes with solar panels in California sold for more than those without.

In addition to California, the new study investigates home pricing trends Connecticut, Florida, Massachusetts, Maryland, North Carolina, New York and Pennsylvania by analyzing the sales of over 20,000 homes in these states. LBL’s analysis of the housing markets in these other states shows that the premium paid for homes with solar is not a phenomenon isolated to the Golden State.

The takeaway is this: If you are thinking about purchasing a solar system for your home, the study’s conclusions should give you a boost of confidence that you are making a smart investment. LBL finds that homes with solar panels will benefit from a ‘solar premium’ when they are sold because buyers are willing to pay more for a home with solar panels.

How Much Does Solar Power Increase Home Value?
Here’s an example: if your home has a 3.6 kilowatt (kW) solar system (the national average) on its roof, this means you have 3,600 watts of solar power (1kW = 1,000W). LBL says that each watt of solar you have will add approximately $4 to your home’s value if you live in California and about $3 if you live elsewhere. This means that your home should sell for about ($4 x 3,600W =) $16,000 more if you live in California or about ($3 x 3,600W =) $12,700 more if you live outside of California.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Lesson here. Finance it yourself. A second, or cash out of savings.

Do Solar Panels Increase Property Value? | EnergySage

< NEWS FEED
New Report Says Solar Panels Increase Home Value
2 REPLIES

Installing solar panels can significantly increase your property’s value, according to a new study from the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab (LBL). The report, titled “Selling into the sun: Price premium analysis of a multi-state dataset of solar homes“, builds on previous research which concluded that homes with solar panels in California sold for more than those without.

In addition to California, the new study investigates home pricing trends Connecticut, Florida, Massachusetts, Maryland, North Carolina, New York and Pennsylvania by analyzing the sales of over 20,000 homes in these states. LBL’s analysis of the housing markets in these other states shows that the premium paid for homes with solar is not a phenomenon isolated to the Golden State.

The takeaway is this: If you are thinking about purchasing a solar system for your home, the study’s conclusions should give you a boost of confidence that you are making a smart investment. LBL finds that homes with solar panels will benefit from a ‘solar premium’ when they are sold because buyers are willing to pay more for a home with solar panels.

How Much Does Solar Power Increase Home Value?
Here’s an example: if your home has a 3.6 kilowatt (kW) solar system (the national average) on its roof, this means you have 3,600 watts of solar power (1kW = 1,000W). LBL says that each watt of solar you have will add approximately $4 to your home’s value if you live in California and about $3 if you live elsewhere. This means that your home should sell for about ($4 x 3,600W =) $16,000 more if you live in California or about ($3 x 3,600W =) $12,700 more if you live outside of California.

DId ya read,,,,alrdy said not recognizing this was the prob

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, the OP was very clear on that, but did not also note that the solar panels significantly increased the value of the home.

 

[elektra]

Solar panels decrease the value of the home, that is why there is a problem selling solar homes. Most intelligent people recognize the fact, that a 5 year old Solar System is obsolete and beginning its years where maintenance is an issue. I would never buy new Solar, let alone used Solar. Think about it, we are told that Solar will improve in the future, if we continue to by the faulty Solar today, how is it a great deal to by the obsolete systems of today, that they tell us will build a better panel for tomorrow?

 

[elektra]

It seems google is over-run with paid advertisements from Solar advocates, wading through that mess to find stories on solar is very difficult. Sure, you can find the, "Solar is Perfect" stories at the top of any solar search, but those are simply advertising, paid for results.

Yet, we can wade through the mess and find little tidbits like this one, which is a loud warning.

Surprised solar customers find themselves with liens - Watchdog.org

eff Leeds says installing SolarCity’s panels on the roof of his home in the Northern California city of El Granada was the sorriest day of his life.

Agreeing to the company’s 20-year lease was like partnering with the devil, he claims. He says he has endured skyrocketing electric bills, installation of an inferior system and contract violations because SolarCity refuses to clean the panels or to provide a payment for his system’s poor performance.

The latest surprise: a notice from his bank telling him that SolarCity had placed a lien on his home, and that his equity line of credit application could not proceed until the lien was removed.

“I was totally surprised by this and very pissed off,” Leeds said. “When I talked to the bank they told me it was a lien. I had to pay the bank a $48 fee for removal. They held me up from closing my loan to buy a vacation home so I had to borrow from another account. It cost me time in calls to both Wells Fargo and to SolarCity.”

SolarCity say it’s not a lien, but a “fixture filing” that stakes the company’s claim to the panels, which it owns if consumers have taken part in its popular lease program. Owning the solar electricity-generating system allows SolarCity to claim lucrative state and federal subsidies available only to system owners. SolarCity has received approximately $500 million in tax subsidies and grants over the years.

 

[Old Rocks]

Solar panels decrease the value of the home, that is why there is a problem selling solar homes. Most intelligent people recognize the fact, that a 5 year old Solar System is obsolete and beginning its years where maintenance is an issue. I would never buy new Solar, let alone used Solar. Think about it, we are told that Solar will improve in the future, if we continue to by the faulty Solar today, how is it a great deal to by the obsolete systems of today, that they tell us will build a better panel for tomorrow?

Of course you are full of shit. That is why you failed to provide links to back up your spurious claim.

 

[elektra]

Of course you are full of shit. That is why you failed to provide links to back up your spurious claim.

Your argument is weak, and pathetic.

 

[elektra]

Google becomes the arbitrator of truth, if google will not link to it, it is not true.

 

[Crick]

It seems google is over-run with paid advertisements from Solar advocates, wading through that mess to find stories on solar is very difficult. Sure, you can find the, "Solar is Perfect" stories at the top of any solar search, but those are simply advertising, paid for results.

Yet, we can wade through the mess and find little tidbits like this one, which is a loud warning.

Surprised solar customers find themselves with liens - Watchdog.org

eff Leeds says installing SolarCity’s panels on the roof of his home in the Northern California city of El Granada was the sorriest day of his life.

Agreeing to the company’s 20-year lease was like partnering with the devil, he claims. He says he has endured skyrocketing electric bills, installation of an inferior system and contract violations because SolarCity refuses to clean the panels or to provide a payment for his system’s poor performance.

The latest surprise: a notice from his bank telling him that SolarCity had placed a lien on his home, and that his equity line of credit application could not proceed until the lien was removed.

“I was totally surprised by this and very pissed off,” Leeds said. “When I talked to the bank they told me it was a lien. I had to pay the bank a $48 fee for removal. They held me up from closing my loan to buy a vacation home so I had to borrow from another account. It cost me time in calls to both Wells Fargo and to SolarCity.”

SolarCity say it’s not a lien, but a “fixture filing” that stakes the company’s claim to the panels, which it owns if consumers have taken part in its popular lease program. Owning the solar electricity-generating system allows SolarCity to claim lucrative state and federal subsidies available only to system owners. SolarCity has received approximately $500 million in tax subsidies and grants over the years.

And it's customers have been able to lease a system for much less in annual costs than an outright purchase. You could make the precise comments about auto leases. Do they somehow prove that cars are inefficient? What does this article actually say about solar power's efficiency or unitized cost?

 

[elektra]

It seems google is over-run with paid advertisements from Solar advocates, wading through that mess to find stories on solar is very difficult. Sure, you can find the, "Solar is Perfect" stories at the top of any solar search, but those are simply advertising, paid for results.

Yet, we can wade through the mess and find little tidbits like this one, which is a loud warning.

Surprised solar customers find themselves with liens - Watchdog.org

eff Leeds says installing SolarCity’s panels on the roof of his home in the Northern California city of El Granada was the sorriest day of his life.

Agreeing to the company’s 20-year lease was like partnering with the devil, he claims. He says he has endured skyrocketing electric bills, installation of an inferior system and contract violations because SolarCity refuses to clean the panels or to provide a payment for his system’s poor performance.

The latest surprise: a notice from his bank telling him that SolarCity had placed a lien on his home, and that his equity line of credit application could not proceed until the lien was removed.

“I was totally surprised by this and very pissed off,” Leeds said. “When I talked to the bank they told me it was a lien. I had to pay the bank a $48 fee for removal. They held me up from closing my loan to buy a vacation home so I had to borrow from another account. It cost me time in calls to both Wells Fargo and to SolarCity.”

SolarCity say it’s not a lien, but a “fixture filing” that stakes the company’s claim to the panels, which it owns if consumers have taken part in its popular lease program. Owning the solar electricity-generating system allows SolarCity to claim lucrative state and federal subsidies available only to system owners. SolarCity has received approximately $500 million in tax subsidies and grants over the years.

And it's customers have been able to lease a system for much less in annual costs than an outright purchase. You could make the precise comments about auto leases. Do they somehow prove that cars are inefficient? What does this article actually say about solar power's efficiency or unitized cost?

What does the article say about the efficiency or cost? That the cost is extreme without government laws dictating solar's use, while burdening proven electricity with taxes and regulation's that raise the cost to make solar appear attractive.

 

[eflatminor]

Many insurance companies pass on solar equipped homes. Cheaper panels are known to catch fire and as they age, maintenance issues left unattended can lead to covered damage.

The technology will improve I suspect.

 

[elektra]

Many insurance companies pass on solar equipped homes. Cheaper panels are known to catch fire and as they age, maintenance issues left unattended can lead to covered damage.

The technology will improve I suspect.

yes, technology will improve, as technology for all other forms of energy improve. Solar will always be weaker, as other technologies improve.

 

[Old Rocks]

Many insurance companies pass on solar equipped homes. Cheaper panels are known to catch fire and as they age, maintenance issues left unattended can lead to covered damage.

The technology will improve I suspect.

Link?

It seems google is over-run with paid advertisements from Solar advocates, wading through that mess to find stories on solar is very difficult. Sure, you can find the, "Solar is Perfect" stories at the top of any solar search, but those are simply advertising, paid for results.

Yet, we can wade through the mess and find little tidbits like this one, which is a loud warning.

Surprised solar customers find themselves with liens - Watchdog.org

eff Leeds says installing SolarCity’s panels on the roof of his home in the Northern California city of El Granada was the sorriest day of his life.

Agreeing to the company’s 20-year lease was like partnering with the devil, he claims. He says he has endured skyrocketing electric bills, installation of an inferior system and contract violations because SolarCity refuses to clean the panels or to provide a payment for his system’s poor performance.

The latest surprise: a notice from his bank telling him that SolarCity had placed a lien on his home, and that his equity line of credit application could not proceed until the lien was removed.

“I was totally surprised by this and very pissed off,” Leeds said. “When I talked to the bank they told me it was a lien. I had to pay the bank a $48 fee for removal. They held me up from closing my loan to buy a vacation home so I had to borrow from another account. It cost me time in calls to both Wells Fargo and to SolarCity.”

SolarCity say it’s not a lien, but a “fixture filing” that stakes the company’s claim to the panels, which it owns if consumers have taken part in its popular lease program. Owning the solar electricity-generating system allows SolarCity to claim lucrative state and federal subsidies available only to system owners. SolarCity has received approximately $500 million in tax subsidies and grants over the years.

And it's customers have been able to lease a system for much less in annual costs than an outright purchase. You could make the precise comments about auto leases. Do they somehow prove that cars are inefficient? What does this article actually say about solar power's efficiency or unitized cost?

What does the article say about the efficiency or cost? That the cost is extreme without government laws dictating solar's use, while burdening proven electricity with taxes and regulation's costs
to make solar appear attractive.

Extreme cost? Whole package solar, 4 kw, about 7K

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

5 kw, about 7K

Home Solar System Price List - Compare Wholesale Discount Prices

 

[Marion Morrison]

If the panels are on the roof, what do you do if you need a new roof?

 

[elektra]

Extreme cost? Whole package solar, 4 kw, about 7K

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

5 kw, about 7K

Home Solar System Price List - Compare Wholesale Discount Prices

Most homes need a minimum of 11 kwh for 6 hours at night, considering the system you linked to, with the capacity factor of 16%, factored in, your system falls short of supplying power to even the smallest of homes.

Add one or two cloudy days and the output decreases to next to nothing, nice idea, for a Liberal Utopian Dream World where the Government dictates what is. Thank God Obama is gone.

 

[Old Rocks]

If the panels are on the roof, what do you do if you need a new roof?

Well now, you just disconnect them, remove them, and put a new roof on. Of course, if you are someone that cannot drive a nail straight, that will cost you to have someone else do it. Then, again, if you had an old roof when you put the panels up, and did not correct that, you deserve to pay through the nose because of your lack of foresight.

 

[Old Rocks]

Extreme cost? Whole package solar, 4 kw, about 7K

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

5 kw, about 7K

Home Solar System Price List - Compare Wholesale Discount Prices

Most homes need a minimum of 11 kwh for 6 hours at night, considering the system you linked to, with the capacity factor of 16%, factored in, your system falls short of supplying power to even the smallest of homes.

Add one or two cloudy days and the output decreases to next to nothing, nice idea, for a Liberal Utopian Dream World where the Government dictates what is. Thank God Obama is gone.

More 'alternative facts' drawn from Ms. Elektra's ass. And they smell that way.

Optimum Tilt of Solar Panels

Fixed or Adjustable?
It is simplest to mount your solar panels at a fixed tilt and just leave them there. But because the sun is higher in the summer and lower in the winter, you can capture more energy during the whole year by adjusting the tilt of the panels according to the season. The following table shows the effect of adjusting the angle, using a system at 40° latitude as an example. (The comparison would be a little different for different latitudes.) Each option is compared with the energy received by the best possible tracker that always keeps the panel pointed directly at the sun.

Fixed Adj. 2 seasons Adj. 4 seasons 2-axis tracker
% of optimum 71.1% 75.2% 75.7% 100%
In short, adjusting the tilt twice a year gives you a meaningful boost in energy. Adjusting four times a year produces only a little more, but could be important if you need to optimize production in spring and fall. You can jump to the section on the best fixed tilt angle, or skip to the sections on two-season or four-season adjusting.

The graph below shows the effect of adjusting the tilt. The turquoise line shows the amount of solar energy you would get each day if the panel is fixed at the full year angle. The red line shows how much you would get by adjusting the tilt four times a year as described below. For comparison, the green line shows the energy you would get from two-axis tracking, which always points the panel directly at the sun. (The violet line is the solar energy per day if the panel is fixed at the winter angle, discussed below.) These figures are calculated for 40° latitude.

So, the factor to multiply by is 71% for fixed installation. So for a 5 kw system, you will get about 24 kw/hr a day. A modern home with energy saving appliances, and LED bulbs won't use more than that a day. Of course, in the summer, you get considerably more than that, and in the winter, a bit less. Climate makes a difference, also. You will get less in Portland than in Bend in Oregon.

 

[elektra]

Extreme cost? Whole package solar, 4 kw, about 7K

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

5 kw, about 7K

Home Solar System Price List - Compare Wholesale Discount Prices

Most homes need a minimum of 11 kwh for 6 hours at night, considering the system you linked to, with the capacity factor of 16%, factored in, your system falls short of supplying power to even the smallest of homes.

Add one or two cloudy days and the output decreases to next to nothing, nice idea, for a Liberal Utopian Dream World where the Government dictates what is. Thank God Obama is gone.

More 'alternative facts' drawn from Ms. Elektra's ass. And they smell that way.

Optimum Tilt of Solar Panels

Fixed or Adjustable?
It is simplest to mount your solar panels at a fixed tilt and just leave them there. But because the sun is higher in the summer and lower in the winter, you can capture more energy during the whole year by adjusting the tilt of the panels according to the season. The following table shows the effect of adjusting the angle, using a system at 40° latitude as an example. (The comparison would be a little different for different latitudes.) Each option is compared with the energy received by the best possible tracker that always keeps the panel pointed directly at the sun.

Fixed Adj. 2 seasons Adj. 4 seasons 2-axis tracker
% of optimum 71.1% 75.2% 75.7% 100%
In short, adjusting the tilt twice a year gives you a meaningful boost in energy. Adjusting four times a year produces only a little more, but could be important if you need to optimize production in spring and fall. You can jump to the section on the best fixed tilt angle, or skip to the sections on two-season or four-season adjusting.

The graph below shows the effect of adjusting the tilt. The turquoise line shows the amount of solar energy you would get each day if the panel is fixed at the full year angle. The red line shows how much you would get by adjusting the tilt four times a year as described below. For comparison, the green line shows the energy you would get from two-axis tracking, which always points the panel directly at the sun. (The violet line is the solar energy per day if the panel is fixed at the winter angle, discussed below.) These figures are calculated for 40° latitude.

So, the factor to multiply by is 71% for fixed installation. So for a 5 kw system, you will get about 24 kw/hr a day. A modern home with energy saving appliances, and LED bulbs won't use more than that a day. Of course, in the summer, you get considerably more than that, and in the winter, a bit less. Climate makes a difference, also. You will get less in Portland than in Bend in Oregon.

Oh, you tilt them to increase the power beyond the capacity factor, beyond the installed capacity as well?

24kwh? Yet your own system as rated by the manufacture only is capable of producing 5 kwh?? Old Crock, you should get yourself hired by the solar people, seeings how you can increase the power of solar panels beyond the capacity factor.

If modern homes do not need 24 kwh? Why are they built with 200 amp electrical panels?