GM Volt Sales Artificially Inflated As Dealers Sale To Other Dealers For Tax Credits

[The Rabbi]

I agree with most folks here that directed taxes/subsidies are obnoxious, and often go haywire. There is an analogy: Pay for Performance. If you run a company, you know the advantages and the pitfalls.

I do not favor of totally flat taxes (and presumably zero subsidies), just as I do not favor flat payroll. That is even more unfair. But as soon as math comes into play, game on.

In my view, carefully-architected fiscal policy is better than no fiscal policy at all.

BTW, by “moderacy” I mean: not extreme, partisan, or radical.

How is pay for perfomance analogous? IN the first case, a private company pays more for someone who will do a better job and make the company more money. IN the second case the gov't takes an enterprise that could not survive on its own and lards it with taxpayer money to make it competitive, driving up costs for all competitors.
I dont see the comparison.

 

[Trajan]

do you have other vehicles, do you commute in the volt, if so how far, if not why not do you have a family with children under 18 at home and is your HH income above say 120K a year?

We have 5 kids, ranging from 14 to 24. My wife drives a Pontiac Torrent (SUV), and our older kids drive: a Rav4, a VW Jetta, and a Saab 9-3.

I do commute daily, generally about 20 miles, sometimes more. I also have taken the Volt on long trips (to NH and NC).

My wife and I both work full-time.

thank you, so I have to ask, why did you buy it, ? I will assume you paid out of pocket, what 37-40 K all in tax reg. right down etc.?

 

[The T]

The Volt tax credit falls under The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (Pub.L. 109-58), a bill passed by the United States Congress on July 29, 2005, and signed into law by President George W. Bush on August 8, 2005. Following that, IRS Form 8936 (for the $7,500 tax credit) was first available for cars put into use in 2008, prior to the previous presidential election.

Obama did bail out GM. It was one of many bail-outs that started in March, 2008 (with JP Morgan) and crested at the end of 2009 (essentially all signed by Bush).

I hate the idea of heavy-handed government. That said, we do need leadership; and leadership must assume some form. While George W. was not my favorite president, especially toward the end of his presidency, I do applaud the effort he and Congress made in 2005 to lead America toward better and more efficient use of energy.

[preach mode on]

What ever happened to the silent majority? Given the waves of divisiveness that have nearly strangled our country, today we need strong leadership more than I ever can remember.

Let's bring back moderacy and re-unite America.

[preach-mode off]

Obama wasn't president in March 2008.
Bush went to congress to get TARP funds extended to GM and they refused. He did it anyway under executive authority.
WTF is "moderacy"??

There is no such thing as 'moderacy'...all it is, is an excuse for those that can't make up their minds between right and wrong.

 

[boedicca]

The part you are missing here if this story is true is that its proof that business people are not all honest.

Some will do anything for money.

They will even cheat their own government if they are not regulated properly.

Whoever wrote the law may have needed to add a line or two to keep these businessmen from cheating the government.

You are missing the more important point that NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE HONEST.

This is why the Founders designed a government with a system of Rule of Law and equal protection thereunder from a limited government.

The DISHONEST people in GOVERNMENT enabled this fraud by making taxpayers money available to only a few people in the first place.

If a car dealer mugged me and stole $8,000 to subsidize the purchase price of a Volt for someone else, he would be subject to prosecution. Instead, we have the government doing the mugging and "laundering" the ill gotten gains. ALL of the rebates are unethical, not just the ones that were officially fraudulent.

 

[The T]

Social engineering gone awry....The dealerships are doing exactly what you'd expect them to do.

What all businesses do...get rid of 'Dead Stock'.

 

[Slapshot28]

thank you, so I have to ask, why did you buy it, ? I will assume you paid out of pocket, what 37-40 K all in tax reg. right down etc.?

Sorry, I'm not following you. Yes, we did pay cash for the Volt. It's a wonderful car--the best I've ever owned. That's why I bought it.

Beyond the $7,500 tax credit, which presumably we will receive in 2012 when we file our tax return, there are no other tax write-downs, reimbursements, etc. It's a personal car, not a company car.

Does that answer your question?

 

[boedicca]

thank you, so I have to ask, why did you buy it, ? I will assume you paid out of pocket, what 37-40 K all in tax reg. right down etc.?

Sorry, I'm not following you. Yes, we did pay cash for the Volt. It's a wonderful car--the best I've ever owned. That's why I bought it.

Beyond the $7,500 tax credit, which presumably we will receive in 2012 when we file our tax return, there are no other tax write-downs, reimbursements, etc. It's a personal car, not a company car.

Does that answer your question?

$7,500 is far more than you deserve. It's sad that someone who appears to be able to afford a vehicle (as indicated by your all cash payment), feels the need to gobble up taxpayer money from the pork trough.

 

[The T]

thank you, so I have to ask, why did you buy it, ? I will assume you paid out of pocket, what 37-40 K all in tax reg. right down etc.?

Sorry, I'm not following you. Yes, we did pay cash for the Volt. It's a wonderful car--the best I've ever owned. That's why I bought it.

Beyond the $7,500 tax credit, which presumably we will receive in 2012 when we file our tax return, there are no other tax write-downs, reimbursements, etc. It's a personal car, not a company car.

Does that answer your question?

$7,500 is far more than you deserve. It's sad that someone who appears to be able to afford a vehicle (as indicated by your all cash payment), feels the need to gobble up taxpayer money from the pork trough.

All it it is is a way for the Gubmint to get people to accept the premise of AGW, "Energy Independence", and to change behaviour of it's populace. Money is a great motivator...they don't want us to question where that money comes from...

 

[Slapshot28]

$7,500 is far more than you deserve. It's sad that someone who appears to be able to afford a vehicle (as indicated by your all cash payment), feels the need to gobble up taxpayer money from the pork trough.

As I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, it's comments like these that may cause my wife and I to waive the $7,500 tax credit.

 

[boedicca]

$7,500 is far more than you deserve. It's sad that someone who appears to be able to afford a vehicle (as indicated by your all cash payment), feels the need to gobble up taxpayer money from the pork trough.

As I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, it's comments like these that may cause my wife and I to waive the $7,500 tax credit.

Uh. You said you would get it in your tax return, bub.

 

[Truthmatters]

See what happens when you dont police the business people?

They will find a way to cheat the government of the people

 

[boedicca]

See what happens when People Have 1st Amendment Rights?

People like TMN continually make fools of themselves.

 

[The T]

See what happens when you dont police the business people?

They will find a way to cheat the government of the people

Another IDIOT that thinks it's Gubmints job to police private entities, and rescue coming from politicians using taxpayer dollars when their political lives depend upon it.

Another dull tool speaks...and yes TDM...that means YOU.

 

[Slapshot28]

Uh. You said you would get it in your tax return, bub.

Sorry? It's a tax credit. If we don't file Form 8936, we won't get the credit. That means we will pay $7,500 more in taxes (i.e., no credit). It's that simple.

 

[Truthmatters]

When you allow business to do whatever it wants it will only seek to make profit.

It will not do anything in your best interests.

If you want a country were only the best interests of Business is protected at the detriment of the vast majority of the people then vote conservative.


This is why they have to cheat to win and have done so for decades

 

[boedicca]

Uh. You said you would get it in your tax return, bub.

Sorry? It's a tax credit. If we don't file Form 8936, we won't get the credit. That means we will pay $7,500 more in taxes (i.e., no credit). It's that simple.

God, are you really this dumb? You posted this:

Beyond the $7,500 tax credit, which presumably we will receive in 2012 when we file our tax return, there are no other tax write-downs, reimbursements, etc. It's a personal car, not a company car.

 

[Vast LWC]

Ahh, yet another disinformation campaign to stop electric cars from ever being made popular.

So, OP, are you a big investor in oil companies, do you come from a big oil state, or are you a witless pawn of big oil?

 

[The Rabbi]

Ahh, yet another disinformation campaign to stop electric cars from ever being made popular.

So, OP, are you a big investor in oil companies, do you come from a big oil state, or are you a witless pawn of big oil?

If electric cars were competitive they wouldn't need fat gov't pork programs to sell them.
Are you a flunky for GM and/or its unions?

 

[Truthmatters]

All they have proven here is if you dont police business it will do anything (even cheat the American people) to make money.

 

[Slapshot28]

God, are you really this dumb?

Last post on this topic... My wife is a tax lawyer. We know something about this.

A tax "return" is a form that is fiiled with the IRS. It is not a *return* of cash.

that said, I do appreciate your conviction on this topic.