GM Volt! Is it the solution to Foreign Oil?

I'm all for better gas mileage cars. but if we all go to electric cars won't that drive up the demand for electric and pollution? Can our current electrical system handle that? Electric bills go through the roof?

Seems like it might create even worse and more expensive problems to fix and worry about. Are these good questions? hell I don't know. What say you?

Tesla Motors - environmental benefits
Tesla is stating that many of its Roadster customer install solar panels to there garage or where every they will store the car and power up their car via solar power!
 
Well cold I hate to burst your bubble here *laughs* but I'm a republican and see nothing at all wrong with these EV cars and trucks in fact it's my belief that with this sort of technology in conjunction with the application of an overall energy plan that uses nuclear, wind, solar, domestic oil, clean coal, and basically every other energy source we have it will give this nation finally a ticket to tell OPEC goodbye. There are several things that are positive in this and one is the sheer number of jobs that such a plan would bring to this nation should it be allowed to come online. Still others, would be to take the power of funding away from these nations that don't like us so much.



I dare say you are the exception not the rule but I have to say I agree 100% with this post.


I agree with both of you on this too.
 
Well cold I hate to burst your bubble here *laughs* but I'm a republican and see nothing at all wrong with these EV cars and trucks in fact it's my belief that with this sort of technology in conjunction with the application of an overall energy plan that uses nuclear, wind, solar, domestic oil, clean coal, and basically every other energy source we have it will give this nation finally a ticket to tell OPEC goodbye. There are several things that are positive in this and one is the sheer number of jobs that such a plan would bring to this nation should it be allowed to come online. Still others, would be to take the power of funding away from these nations that don't like us so much.

I don't necessarily consider myself a Republican, but I voted Republican nearly across the board in the last election. And I plan to vote Republican in 2010 nearly across the board again!
 
There is a lot to be said to these small reactors and the development of reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel as well. If the Govt. spent the money to develop these and then let's say for example leased the power produced from them to the grid and used that money as a means to pay for them as well as pay down any debt owed it's my contention something like that is well within the framework of the Govts. power as it applies to interstate commerce. The average nuclear facility employs 700 to 1000 people on a perm basis and employs anywhere for 5 to 7000 in the construction phase. If you apply some sort of solution like that along with let's say the application of individual solar arrays in new home construction you have made a big dent. This sort of thing is not pie in the sky thinking its current technology and can be done with a little vision on the part of those that represent us.
 
Just take a look at the sheer numbers involved with Palo Verde nuclear generating station, employee's , power generation etc. Thats here in Arizona, and supplies enough power for over 4 million homes. If the Govt. invested money in a reprocessing facility in conjunction with these new nuke plants then stupid ideas like Yucca Mtn would never be needed. While I am strong advocate for nuclear power whoever came up with the idea for spending billions on Yucca Mtn, must work for the economic planning dept. for Amtrak.
 
I have long advocated this actually Cold as a solution for our nation and it's energy needs.. What I also believe is that this will also satisfy those with environmental concerns as well as those that are not overly concerned with environmental issues but are with jobs. It's my belief that we can as a nation come up with a solution to our energy needs and do so in a safe manner that does not require massive amounts of Govt. intervention rather using Govt. as a partner to stimulate this explosion of technology that can happen should Govt. just open the gates. Let me cite an example of how Govt. does not act in a very smart way. There a re literally 100's and 100's of farmers and many more people that depend on water in California for irrigation. However because environmental groups have convinced the Govt. to shut off the pumps in favor of keeping minnows alive , those peoples lives are in dire straights and can be fixed with one line in a bill that says " pumps are hereby allowed to be turned on" . As long as we have these sorts of policies that do not have the best interests of the people in mind we will suffer at the hands of nations belonging to OPEC.
 
I have to tell you Navy that we must be very careful allowing species to become extinct as it can have a cacading effect on larger animals in the eco-system.


I also think we could deal with a number of problems with farms by growing industrial hemp. It's a WEED grows like a weed but can be used for a great number of things including bio-diesel.
 
While I understand the reasoning, IMO these sorts of things need to be tempered or at the very least looked at as not only how they might be of a benefit to the animals they impact but the people they impact. No offense but congress represents the interests of the people and any animals needs takes a back seat to that interest and it's my belief that these environmental groups sometimes forget that in their zeal to save these eco-systems they have a real impact on real peoples lives. If they truley meant to save the environment then they can do it through educating these farmers on how to farm in a more eco-friendly way rather than advocate ending their way of life, see what I mean?
 
Navy, we once took 2 million salmon out of the Colombia, and had no impact on the salmon. Today, a run in the tens of thousands is a reason for celebration. Those salmon are food. We have destroyed a major food resource.

Now, an electric car that had a home with a solar roof would allow the home owner to be his own fuel source. Cost, well, see the science and technology board for what a small company in Oregon is doing.
 
NO ONE wants a polluted planet. That fallacy is an ad-hom card the EnviroNazis love to play. If you're against AGW, you're a "denier" and like pollution. You don't care about the planet. All that rot. It's just typical attempts to quash debate. To squelch observations and even data. NONE of that is part of science, or the quest for knowledge.

The truth is, we do not know nor can we ever know all the effects of pollution. The ecosystem is so complex, our understanding of it is still in its infancy.

Currently the focus of the AGW theories is on CO2 emissions. Well, that's certainly a convenient devil, it's at least what, 18th on the list of greenhouse gases? Far behind the thousands of times more potent and dangerous NF3? But CO2 IS the one which is emitted by combustion of fossil fuels -- that evil oil and gas stuff.

Well, if the science is settled and there's no room for debate, let's get serious about it! Let's immediately ban ALL manufacture and use of CO2 for entertainment purposes -- fake "smoke" at rock concerts, sporting events, wrestling events, Hollywood special effects... Soda pop carbonation, paint ball guns, any and all toys... also for uses where it's been superseded, such as water treatment, fire fighting.... If it's REALLY so bad these are the cheapest, easiest and fastest ways to stop millions of tons of it from going into the atmosphere every year.

Lets just get the fuck off foreign oil by NOT buying it anymore! Let's do that NOW. The free marketplace will come up with viable, economic alternatives real fast, and we'll bankrupt our enemies instead of financing them.

Also while we're at it, let's get that NF3 stopped by redesigning manufacturing processes so they don't produce and emit this highly dangerous for the environment gas. NF3 -- nitrogen trifluoride -- is a compound used in manufacture of flat panel televisions, computer displays, microcircuits, solar panels and is 17,000 times more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Also stays in the atmosphere 800 times longer than CO2, yet you never hear anything about it, because it's not a product of fossil fuels combustion.

THESE are things they would do, and be calling for, if they really truly themselves believed in their own cause. But they don't, the cause is simply an excuse to gain more control over people's lives.

The "science was settled" that the Jews were inferior and had to go, too. What a convenient devil they were to Nazi Germany! Those who fail to learn the hard lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

By far the most towering idiocy of environmentalism is the harm to the environment most all "alternatives" do:

Lighting's dirty little secret: The swirly florescent bulbs that will by law be required, as incandescent bulbs are banned? Mercury. Where's it all gonna go, from the billions of these discarded? Into the groundwater! Love it!

Wind power's dirty little secret: It takes 4 barrels of oil per year, per wind turbine, for the gearbox. And another five barrels for the transformer below each turbine. And these turbines leak and sling this oil. Great for the groundwater!

Multiply those figures times a million, two million wind turbines planned -- and you see why oil magnates like Pickens are pushing this. They stand to sell millions of barrels of oil!

Dirty little secret of solar: The production of solar panels involves nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) emissions be released. NF3 is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The concentration of it in the atmosphere has increased 20 fold during the last two decades by its use in manufacturing processes. The level is increasing 11 percent per year.

The weaker CO2 stays in the atmosphere up to 100 years. NF3 stays in the atmosphere for 700 years or more.

Dirty little secret of Hydrogen: Water Vapor is the product of combustion. Sounds great, right? But -- Water vapor is far and away the #1 greenhouse gas. This according to the IPCC and every other scientist on both sides of the issue. It's the one thing they do ALL agree on. Hmmm...

Dirty little secrets of Ethanol: Yeah, it's "cleaner" if you believe CO2 is really really bad, because it does produce less when combusted. But it also produces the definite pollutant and definite poison to all living things -- CO (Carbon Monoxide) 100 times more than gasoline! Also, it takes 1,200 gallons of water to make a gallon of this crap!

Cleaner little secret of gasoline powered internal combustion: Today's engines put out 95% fewer emissions than their 1970 counterparts!

It's what they DON'T tell us that really winds up hurting the environment in the long haul.
 
Don't get me wrong here Rocks, I understand the need to be aware of conservation when it comes to one's environment. However I do think that it can be done in such a way especially today that recognizes the economic impact of the citizens as well as the need to be good stewards of the the environment. I am not a fan of this all or nothing mentality that basically does not take into consideration peoples lives especially when if these groups approached it as an educational issue and worked together with the groups they wish to change habits i.e. farmers, they might find them more wiling to change. see what I mean?
 
Now, an electric car that had a home with a solar roof would allow the home owner to be his own fuel source. Cost, well, see the science and technology board for what a small company in Oregon is doing.

LOL, that is what Tesla is promoting. The solar pannel business for residential and commerical building is actually a booming business.

With liberals in control of the government, how long until they require all new homes to have solar panels installed?
 
Are we just supposed to take your word for it! Refrigerators and air conditioners used to be made with CFCs, now they are not! Its called innovations! The first electric cars will have flaws no doubt, but wait until we have 10 years of electric cars and we will be set.

NO ONE wants a polluted planet. That fallacy is an ad-hom card the EnviroNazis love to play. If you're against AGW, you're a "denier" and like pollution. You don't care about the planet. All that rot. It's just typical attempts to quash debate. To squelch observations and even data. NONE of that is part of science, or the quest for knowledge.

The truth is, we do not know nor can we ever know all the effects of pollution. The ecosystem is so complex, our understanding of it is still in its infancy.

Currently the focus of the AGW theories is on CO2 emissions. Well, that's certainly a convenient devil, it's at least what, 18th on the list of greenhouse gases? Far behind the thousands of times more potent and dangerous NF3? But CO2 IS the one which is emitted by combustion of fossil fuels -- that evil oil and gas stuff.

Well, if the science is settled and there's no room for debate, let's get serious about it! Let's immediately ban ALL manufacture and use of CO2 for entertainment purposes -- fake "smoke" at rock concerts, sporting events, wrestling events, Hollywood special effects... Soda pop carbonation, paint ball guns, any and all toys... also for uses where it's been superseded, such as water treatment, fire fighting.... If it's REALLY so bad these are the cheapest, easiest and fastest ways to stop millions of tons of it from going into the atmosphere every year.

Lets just get the fuck off foreign oil by NOT buying it anymore! Let's do that NOW. The free marketplace will come up with viable, economic alternatives real fast, and we'll bankrupt our enemies instead of financing them.

Also while we're at it, let's get that NF3 stopped by redesigning manufacturing processes so they don't produce and emit this highly dangerous for the environment gas. NF3 -- nitrogen trifluoride -- is a compound used in manufacture of flat panel televisions, computer displays, microcircuits, solar panels and is 17,000 times more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Also stays in the atmosphere 800 times longer than CO2, yet you never hear anything about it, because it's not a product of fossil fuels combustion.

THESE are things they would do, and be calling for, if they really truly themselves believed in their own cause. But they don't, the cause is simply an excuse to gain more control over people's lives.

The "science was settled" that the Jews were inferior and had to go, too. What a convenient devil they were to Nazi Germany! Those who fail to learn the hard lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

By far the most towering idiocy of environmentalism is the harm to the environment most all "alternatives" do:

Lighting's dirty little secret: The swirly florescent bulbs that will by law be required, as incandescent bulbs are banned? Mercury. Where's it all gonna go, from the billions of these discarded? Into the groundwater! Love it!

Wind power's dirty little secret: It takes 4 barrels of oil per year, per wind turbine, for the gearbox. And another five barrels for the transformer below each turbine. And these turbines leak and sling this oil. Great for the groundwater!

Multiply those figures times a million, two million wind turbines planned -- and you see why oil magnates like Pickens are pushing this. They stand to sell millions of barrels of oil!

Dirty little secret of solar: The production of solar panels involves nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) emissions be released. NF3 is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The concentration of it in the atmosphere has increased 20 fold during the last two decades by its use in manufacturing processes. The level is increasing 11 percent per year.

The weaker CO2 stays in the atmosphere up to 100 years. NF3 stays in the atmosphere for 700 years or more.

Dirty little secret of Hydrogen: Water Vapor is the product of combustion. Sounds great, right? But -- Water vapor is far and away the #1 greenhouse gas. This according to the IPCC and every other scientist on both sides of the issue. It's the one thing they do ALL agree on. Hmmm...

Dirty little secrets of Ethanol: Yeah, it's "cleaner" if you believe CO2 is really really bad, because it does produce less when combusted. But it also produces the definite pollutant and definite poison to all living things -- CO (Carbon Monoxide) 100 times more than gasoline! Also, it takes 1,200 gallons of water to make a gallon of this crap!

Cleaner little secret of gasoline powered internal combustion: Today's engines put out 95% fewer emissions than their 1970 counterparts!

It's what they DON'T tell us that really winds up hurting the environment in the long haul.
 
The Volt is an awesome car but too expensive right now.

Always happens with new technologies. They always start out very expensive and the price goes down at they start to perfect it. Remember the first cell phone! LOL, the first ones were 100 fold more expensive that they are now.

Take the Motorola Dyna TAC:
The DynaTAC's retail price, $3,995 and I believe they paid upward of $2 a minute!

Motorola DynaTAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DynaTAC8000X.jpg



What you will see with the Volt, the Model S, Nissan's, Chysler, Ford's. Honda's, Mistubshi etc., in other words the first generation of electric cars, be bought up by the upper middle class and upper class people first. Second generation will be more middle classers. Third generation will all the middle class, with the lower class buying the used 1st generation autos.

The revolution starts in 2010, the revolution will be completed by 2020! My kids will laugh at when I tell them stories about their old man's gas powered car and they will say I couldn't imagine such a thing! Probably the same thing when the generations started to switch from horse and buggy to cars!
 

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