GM may have electric car breakthrough

[flacaltenn]

The model T ford was a bag of crap.
It had limited range, was slow and needed quite a lot of work to keep the thing on the road.
Fuel, although several types were usable, wasn't always easy to get.

People bought the thing by the millions.

To the posters who knock new technology as imperfect.
Get a life just after you turn your brains on.

You are aware that we had electric cars in the 1800s -- aren't you? And some of them probably had close to the range of a Chevy Volt.. New tech no.. But packaged a helluva lot more nicely...

I mock it from a BIG PICTURE point of view. Because SOMEONE has to care where all the additional electricity is gonna come from when you move transportation from oil to electric.
Especially when I'm supposed to buying squiggly bulbs, turning down my thermostat and watching the lights go out in the airport while I'm trying to read. We need to get real about the messages that are being sent. Having some folks feed their EVs and having Safeway keep their signs on all night -- whilst I freeze my buns off and grab 1W phone chargers out of the wall --- that's not even comical..

Short sighted.
As EVs become more efficient, the internal combustion engine will be a thing of the past.
The infrastructure argument is really very silly.
There were no petrol stations before the motor car became popular but the power grid is already in place and will be upgraded to cope with the new demand.
Demand that will, eventually, be served by alternative energy, not oil.

The US is dependent on oil and most of that is middle eastern oil.
The US government knows this and wants freedom from that dependency.

Big picture time.

MOVING TERRAWATTS of power from oil for transportation to ELECTRICITY is a real concern and NOT ""really very silly"... Give me a breakdown of where that supply is gonna come from and WHY we are kicking and screaming about building ANY NEW CAPACITY today..

Got a BETTER PLAN for you.. Use FUEL CELLS to power the EV. And make hydrogen with wind/solar AWAY FROM THE GRID. That way --- it stores better. --- It can take the variability and reliability issues of solar/wind into account without the nation going dark. --- And it means we don't need to build out a BEEFIER LARGER grid...

 

[tjvh]

Great!!!!! So people can drive 100-200 miles then sit for eight to ten hours well their electric car recharges off the power grid made possible by the coal burning power plant... Wonderful!

 

[IGetItAlready]

Volt buyers are stupid.
They could have saved a helluva alot more 'bread' by buying a primo bicycle for their urban commutes.

You buy what you want with your dough, and don't be telling me what to buy with mine. I haven't been to a gasoline station and forced to buy foreign based fuels in more than a month at tnis point, try that with your monster truck. And when bicycles grow decent air conditioning, let me know and I'll give one of those a try, otherwise the Volt choice looks quite a bit smarter than you imply.

You tell 'em.
Personally, I'm ridiculously impressed with your clear concern for the environment to the point of making an outrageously overpriced purchase of a highly inefficient technology.
You go buddy! Just don't go fast or far.

 

[tjvh]

Volt buyers are stupid.
They could have saved a helluva alot more 'bread' by buying a primo bicycle for their urban commutes.

You buy what you want with your dough, and don't be telling me what to buy with mine. I haven't been to a gasoline station and forced to buy foreign based fuels in more than a month at tnis point, try that with your monster truck. And when bicycles grow decent air conditioning, let me know and I'll give one of those a try, otherwise the Volt choice looks quite a bit smarter than you imply.

You tell 'em.
Personally, I'm ridiculously impressed with your clear concern for the environment to the point of making an outrageously overpriced purchase of a highly inefficient technology.
You go buddy! Just don't go fast or far.

And hope to hell he doesn't get rear ended by that gas guzzling monster truck.

 

[IGetItAlready]

You buy what you want with your dough, and don't be telling me what to buy with mine. I haven't been to a gasoline station and forced to buy foreign based fuels in more than a month at tnis point, try that with your monster truck. And when bicycles grow decent air conditioning, let me know and I'll give one of those a try, otherwise the Volt choice looks quite a bit smarter than you imply.

You tell 'em.
Personally, I'm ridiculously impressed with your clear concern for the environment to the point of making an outrageously overpriced purchase of a highly inefficient technology.
You go buddy! Just don't go fast or far.

And hope to hell he doesn't get rear ended by that gas guzzling monster truck.

Ouch!
That could get ugly.

 

[RGR]

At this point electric cars have a number of problems to overcome before the masses accept them.
1. Range even a 100 mile range is too short, to be acceptable they must have the same range as a gas powered vehicle. Meaning at least 300 miles.

Only if your "masses" don't include the 75% of commuting Americans who fit within the electric range of the Volt, and use it for...you know...commuting. Sure, those hauling horses around won't buy them, but that would be true even if they had 300 miles of range.

2. Time to recharge... Should be equivalent to filling the tank on you gas vehicle. Otherwise a second vehicle is needed for longer trips.

I've got 7, actually. And no, I will trade fueling up in my garage overnight for 5 minutes at the local "can we please steal more money from you to commute and give it to foreign governments please" stations some mistake as an experience Americans are required to participate in.

3. Battery life. Now I believe that some batteries are warrantied for 5 years and 100,000 miles
It would cost you upwards of 5 grand to replace the battery. Think of how that will affect the resale value of the 4 year old Prius with 93,000 miles.
Electric cars are not ready for Prime time just yet.

Well, the battery life is certainly an issue. I replaced a transmission in a Toyota a few years back, and it broke in 3 years. Do you think people will stop buying manual transmissions because some transmissions break before their expected MTBF?

 

[RGR]

Volt buyers are stupid.
They could have saved a helluva alot more 'bread' by buying a primo bicycle for their urban commutes.

You buy what you want with your dough, and don't be telling me what to buy with mine. I haven't been to a gasoline station and forced to buy foreign based fuels in more than a month at tnis point, try that with your monster truck. And when bicycles grow decent air conditioning, let me know and I'll give one of those a try, otherwise the Volt choice looks quite a bit smarter than you imply.

You tell 'em.
Personally, I'm ridiculously impressed with your clear concern for the environment to the point of making an outrageously overpriced purchase of a highly inefficient technology.
You go buddy! Just don't go fast or far.

Where did I ever say I gave a rats behind about the environment? My reasons for purchase runs much more to two factors, economic support of American extractive fuel industries and cool technowizardry. And it isn't "inefficient" when it costs so much less to fuel, and that fuel is produced and distributed by Americans making a decent wage, rather than sending the money to whichever despot we are currently supporting overseas so they'll send us crude oil.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Great!!!!! So people can drive 100-200 miles then sit for eight to ten hours well their electric car recharges off the power grid made possible by the coal burning power plant... Wonderful!

This is why we need a grid that can handle the stress and produce clean energy. Expecting people to cut down is going to cut down our gdp and living standard. Adding a few modern nuclear plants within areas that don't have earthquakes to back up the renewable is a good idea. Maybe one day we may get to the point where renewables could take over, but that's a long ways off.

We could slowly phase out coal, gas and other shit if we do this. We must think in ways that promote growth at the same time.

 

[Politico]

According to them the tech is still years off. And it will cost too much to be practical I am sure.

 

[tjvh]

Great!!!!! So people can drive 100-200 miles then sit for eight to ten hours well their electric car recharges off the power grid made possible by the coal burning power plant... Wonderful!

This is why we need a grid that can handle the stress and produce clean energy. Expecting people to cut down is going to cut down our gdp and living standard. Adding a few modern nuclear plants within areas that don't have earthquakes to back up the renewable is a good idea. Maybe one day we may get to the point where renewables could take over, but that's a long ways off.

We could slowly phase out coal, gas and other shit if we do this. We must think in ways that promote growth at the same time.

Yeah, well you don't bankrupt the Coal industry as Obama and Biden propose before you have a viable replacement to Coal, that would be... Fucking nuts.

 

[flacaltenn]

Great!!!!! So people can drive 100-200 miles then sit for eight to ten hours well their electric car recharges off the power grid made possible by the coal burning power plant... Wonderful!

This is why we need a grid that can handle the stress and produce clean energy. Expecting people to cut down is going to cut down our gdp and living standard. Adding a few modern nuclear plants within areas that don't have earthquakes to back up the renewable is a good idea. Maybe one day we may get to the point where renewables could take over, but that's a long ways off.

We could slowly phase out coal, gas and other shit if we do this. We must think in ways that promote growth at the same time.

What renewables are gonna "take over" powering the grid?

Have these been conceived yet? Or are we channeling Nostradamus here?

 

[Desperado]

At this point electric cars have a number of problems to overcome before the masses accept them.
1. Range even a 100 mile range is too short, to be acceptable they must have the same range as a gas powered vehicle. Meaning at least 300 miles.

Only if your "masses" don't include the 75% of commuting Americans who fit within the electric range of the Volt, and use it for...you know...commuting. Sure, those hauling horses around won't buy them, but that would be true even if they had 300 miles of range.

2. Time to recharge... Should be equivalent to filling the tank on you gas vehicle. Otherwise a second vehicle is needed for longer trips.

I've got 7, actually. And no, I will trade fueling up in my garage overnight for 5 minutes at the local "can we please steal more money from you to commute and give it to foreign governments please" stations some mistake as an experience Americans are required to participate in.

3. Battery life. Now I believe that some batteries are warrantied for 5 years and 100,000 miles
It would cost you upwards of 5 grand to replace the battery. Think of how that will affect the resale value of the 4 year old Prius with 93,000 miles.
Electric cars are not ready for Prime time just yet.

Well, the battery life is certainly an issue. I replaced a transmission in a Toyota a few years back, and it broke in 3 years. Do you think people will stop buying manual transmissions because some transmissions break before their expected MTBF?

Listen, I like the idea of the Volt. It is a pure electric car and not a hybrid.
The idea of using a gas engine to drive a generator to power the electric motor when the battery does not have enough power is fantastic. It does not leave stranded waiting for a tow truck when the battery dies like a Leaf. Sure if you have a short commute, do not care about performance (0-60 in over 9 seconds) and resale value of a high mileage car, the Volt is a good car. Like I said before Electric cars are not ready for Prime time.

 

[flacaltenn]

At this point electric cars have a number of problems to overcome before the masses accept them.
1. Range even a 100 mile range is too short, to be acceptable they must have the same range as a gas powered vehicle. Meaning at least 300 miles.

Only if your "masses" don't include the 75% of commuting Americans who fit within the electric range of the Volt, and use it for...you know...commuting. Sure, those hauling horses around won't buy them, but that would be true even if they had 300 miles of range.



I've got 7, actually. And no, I will trade fueling up in my garage overnight for 5 minutes at the local "can we please steal more money from you to commute and give it to foreign governments please" stations some mistake as an experience Americans are required to participate in.

3. Battery life. Now I believe that some batteries are warrantied for 5 years and 100,000 miles
It would cost you upwards of 5 grand to replace the battery. Think of how that will affect the resale value of the 4 year old Prius with 93,000 miles.
Electric cars are not ready for Prime time just yet.

Well, the battery life is certainly an issue. I replaced a transmission in a Toyota a few years back, and it broke in 3 years. Do you think people will stop buying manual transmissions because some transmissions break before their expected MTBF?

Listen, I like the idea of the Volt. It is a pure electric car and not a hybrid.
The idea of using a gas engine to drive a generator to power the electric motor when the battery does not have enough power is fantastic. It does not leave stranded waiting for a tow truck when the battery dies like a Leaf. Sure if you have a short commute, do not care about performance (0-60 in over 9 seconds) and resale value of a high mileage car, the Volt is a good car. Like I said before Electric cars are not ready for Prime time.

But Hybrids ARE ready for prime time.

And fuel cells may yet be a much better concept from a systems level. Many advantages over EVs -- fill-up times are comparable -- the infrastructure doesn't require a huge leap, less toxic waste in the stream when all those batteries get recycled, and the GRID does not need to bear the massive additional loads.

Fuel Cells also scale up better for heavy trucks and vehicles. THe same energy that runs a car can move Fed Ex trucks or buses..

 

[HenryBHough]

We gotta hurry up and build a hell of a lot more coal fired power plants if we're expected to keep all those Government Motors 'lectric vehicles sparking. Meanwhile, only park a Chevy Volt in your garage if you're sure your homeowner's (fire) insurance is paid up.

 

[ScienceRocks]

We gotta hurry up and build a hell of a lot more coal fired power plants if we're expected to keep all those Government Motors 'lectric vehicles sparking. Meanwhile, only park a Chevy Volt in your garage if you're sure your homeowner's (fire) insurance is paid up.

A couple dozen nuclear plants would be better!

 

[there4eyeM]

As long as people insist that the most recent level of consumption must be the standard, there is not much hope.
When people see that progress is in another direction, progress will be made.

Now, don't accuse me of being 'a progressive'!!!

 

[ScienceRocks]

As long as people insist that the most recent level of consumption must be the standard, there is not much hope.
When people see that progress is in another direction, progress will be made.

Now, don't accuse me of being 'a progressive'!!!

Why would any freedom loving human being restrict themselves? Who am I to tell someone how much energy they can use?

 

[there4eyeM]

"Why would any freedom loving human being restrict themselves?"

Overlooking the singular plural conflict in grammar, freedom means choice. I love my wife. I am free to 'go' with other women. I am faithful out of choice. I restrict my freedom out of choice. Most free people do this all the time.

"Who am I to tell someone how much energy they can use?"
Nature? The universe? There are limits to quantities and pollution.

The US is telling all the other people on the planet how much energy they can use because the US uses a disproportionate part.

 

[flacaltenn]

"Why would any freedom loving human being restrict themselves?"

Overlooking the singular plural conflict in grammar, freedom means choice. I love my wife. I am free to 'go' with other women. I am faithful out of choice. I restrict my freedom out of choice. Most free people do this all the time.

"Who am I to tell someone how much energy they can use?"
Nature? The universe? There are limits to quantities and pollution.

The US is telling all the other people on the planet how much energy they can use because the US uses a disproportionate part.

Say WHAT????

Is China stealing from OUR energy needs? Maybe oil prices went up a bit because of Chinese demand, but they are building a new coal plant every week. A new nuclear plant every 3 months. Are we TELLING THEM not to? Do we have folks watching Ghana making sure they only burn cowdung? (well the UN is)

This is same faulty logic that says that successful folks must be STEALING from the poor.
Because quantities of success are limited?

"This is NOT a spectator sport".. No one really needs sophistry. We need plans, ideas and actions that WORK in the real world -- Got any?

 

[tjvh]

"Why would any freedom loving human being restrict themselves?"

Overlooking the singular plural conflict in grammar, freedom means choice. I love my wife. I am free to 'go' with other women. I am faithful out of choice. I restrict my freedom out of choice. Most free people do this all the time.

"Who am I to tell someone how much energy they can use?"
Nature? The universe? There are limits to quantities and pollution.

The US is telling all the other people on the planet how much energy they can use because the US uses a disproportionate part.

Environmentalists have held America hostage for decades, they have pushed through damaging Legislation in very small doses which once compounded strangles our nations ability to compete. Politicians never questioned it for fear losing the one thing they really do care about... Votes. Americans are suffering by paying heavy prices on everything from groceries to the energy used to cook them. We cannot build new power plants without disturbing a mouse habitat, drill our own Oil because a Caribou may be inconvenienced and have to circumnavigate a fence, a bridge because a seagull cannot fly around it, an Oil refinery... Well don't even try to imagine the Environmental destruction that would cause. Of course a windmill that chops little birdies to pieces is OK because it fits the ideology of the destructive loons. No problem bulldozing a thousand acres of wildlife for a sea of solar panels. The point I'm making is that protecting our in environment is fine and dandy, but committing Economic SUICIDE to save a Shrew is a bit... NUTS. But go right ahead and drive your two hundred mile range electric car, and while it's charging you can ponder how the Chinese are making your children's ability to compete, and succeed insignificant in the emerging Global economy all thanks to environmentalists who knew what is best for you.