Global Warming is REAL!-- and not just on Earth

[IanC]

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

SPACE.com -- New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change

The latest images could provide evidence that Jupiter is in the midst of a global change that can modify temperatures by as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit on different parts of the globe.

The study was led jointly by Imke de Pater and Philip Marcus of University of California, Berkeley.

MIT researcher finds evidence of global warming on Neptune's largest moon

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- We're not the only ones experiencing global warming. A Massachusetts Institute of Technology researcher has reported that observations obtained by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and ground-based instruments reveal that Neptune's largest moon, Triton, seems to have heated up significantly since the Voyager space probe visited it in 1989. The warming trend is causing part of Triton's surface of frozen nitrogen to turn into gas, thus making its thin atmosphere denser.

I dunno. Is my car exhaust reaching other planets too?

If other panetary bodies are showing the effects of warming could that mean that something else is causing global warming? like the Sun maybe?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The warmists spent YEARS denying the sun had anything at all to do with warming. Now they are claiming that the sun is the reason we are not warming like before.

In other words, any lie is good enough for them.

 

[IanC]

So who does the IPCC look to for insight on the solar side of the equation? Judith Lean.

Judith Lean and Claus Fröhlich are responsible for scandalous rewriting of the solar activity graphs. The original satellite data showed, that TSI (measured in Watts) increased from 1986 to 1996 by cca one third... But then Judith and Clause "laundered" the graphs and voila... solar output increase was gone.

The people, who were in charge of the satellites and who created the original graphs (the best world astro-physicists: Doug Hoyt, Richard C.Willson) protested against this manipulation. In vain.

R.C. Willson (head of the ACRIM satellites): "Fröhlich made unauthorised and incorrect adjustments... He did it without any detailed knowledge of the ACRIM1 instrument or on-orbit performance...The only obvious purpose was to devise a TSI composite, that agreed with the predictions of Lean's TSI proxy model

“lead authors are promoting their own work in the chapters and are often asked to give an ‘objective’ opinion about controversies in which they themselves are involved.

boy, it sure seems rather incestuous over on the Global Warming side. wasn't there a big flap just recently about global warmers being put in charge of the investigation into global warmer misconduct, in which the global warmers were found un-guilty of malfeasance, and the science was declared a non issue?

 

[IanC]

The warmists spent YEARS denying the sun had anything at all to do with warming. Now they are claiming that the sun is the reason we are not warming like before.

In other words, any lie is good enough for them.

I think they fell in love with their pretty little theories and computer simulations. Unfortunately, when the idea fell apart they just couldn't bring themselves to scrap it and start over again. especially when there was funding to be had to keep their old theories alive. zombie science.

 

[JBeukema]

How active is the martian environment?

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]Theoretically, if the planet's surface cooled by radiation alone, then the greenhouse-induced surface temperature would be much warmer, about 350 K (77 °C). Atmospheric motion (convective towers carrying latent and sensible heat upwards and large scale circulation carrying it both upwards and polewards) circumvent much of the greenhouse effect and significantly increase the "escape" of energy to space, leaving Earth's surface more than 60 °C cooler than a static atmosphere would do.[/FONT]

JunkScience.com -- The Real Inconvenient Truth: Greenhouse, global warming and some facts
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][/FONT]

 

[sparky]

I dunno. Is my car exhaust reaching other planets too?

yes, and it'll never pass inspection like that

~S~

 

[Old Rocks]

Global warming on Mars, ice caps melting

The empirical evidence isn't conclusive on whether global warming is happening on Mars. However, to answer the question on whether the sun is causing Earth's global warming, there is plentiful data on solar activity and Earth's climate. Many papers have examined this data, concluding the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's when the modern global warming trend began.

So the argument that Martian warming disproves anthropogenic global warming fails on two points - there is little empirical evidence that Mars is warming and Mars' climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo, not solar variations

 

[Old Rocks]

Global warming on other planets in the solar system

Other planets are warming

"Evidence that CO2 is not the principle driver of warming on this planet is provided by the simultaneous warming of other planets and moons in our solar system, despite the fact that they obviously have no anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases. Mars, Triton, Pluto and Jupiter all show global warming, pointing to the Sun as the dominating influence in determining climate throughout the solar system." (Ian McClintock)

What the science says...
There are three fundamental flaws in the 'other planets are warming' argument. Not all planets in the solar system are warming. The sun has shown no long term trend since 1950 and in fact has shown a slight cooling trend in recent decades. There are explanations for why other planets are warming.


The basis of this argument is that the sun must be causing global warming and in fact, warming throughout the solar system. There are several flaws in this line of thought. Firstly, the characterisation that the whole solar system is warming is erroneous. Around 6 planets or moons out of the more than 100 bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling (Young 2001).

Secondly, the theory that a brightening sun is causing global warming falls apart when you consider the sun has shown little to no trend since the 1950s. A variety of independent measurements of solar activity including satellite data, sunspot numbers, UV levels and solar magnetograms all paint a consistent picture. Over the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been moving in opposite directions.

 

[Old Rocks]

Let's see. Things are warming up because the sun is putting out more energy. Except it is putting out less. Even according to the dingbat Watts, this is the case.

So how are these planets warming because of an increase in solar energy when the output of the sun, the TSI, is less? Fellows, this is pretty pathetic arguementation on your part.

NASA Headline: Deep Solar Minimum | Watts Up With That?

A 12-year low in solar “irradiance”: Careful measurements by several NASA spacecraft show that the sun’s brightness has dropped by 0.02% at visible wavelengths and a whopping 6% at extreme UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996. These changes are not enough to reverse the course of global warming, but there are some other, noticeable side-effects: Earth’s upper atmosphere is heated less by the sun and it is therefore less “puffed up.” Satellites in low Earth orbit experience less atmospheric drag, extending their operational lifetimes. That’s the good news. Unfortunately, space junk also remains longer in Earth orbit, increasing hazards to spacecraft and satellites.

 

[IanC]

Global warming on Mars, ice caps melting

The empirical evidence isn't conclusive on whether global warming is happening on Mars. However, to answer the question on whether the sun is causing Earth's global warming, there is plentiful data on solar activity and Earth's climate. Many papers have examined this data, concluding the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's when the modern global warming trend began.

So the argument that Martian warming disproves anthropogenic global warming fails on two points - there is little empirical evidence that Mars is warming and Mars' climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo, not solar variations

I'd like to believe you Old Rocks. But I keep hearing stories about 'corrections' being added to original data that always seem to swing the results into line with Global Warmer predictions.

And as to Mars, so what if the primary factors of that planet's climate are albedo and dust? Are you really saying that the Sun's (uncorrected, of course) output does not affect it? hahahaha

 

[Old Rocks]

Are you saying that less output from the sun makes Mars warmer? Think about it for a moment. The sun just went through a minimum cylcle that was one of the coolest on record. TSI declined, and the numbers of sunspots went down to zero. Yet you are saying because of that mars is warmer?

And look at what happened here on Earth. A strong and persistant La Nina, TSI decline, sunspot minimum, yet 2008 still came in as the tenth warmest year on record.

As for your accusations of the scientists, post referances and data, otherwise you just engaging in yap-yap.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

SPACE.com -- New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change

The latest images could provide evidence that Jupiter is in the midst of a global change that can modify temperatures by as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit on different parts of the globe.

The study was led jointly by Imke de Pater and Philip Marcus of University of California, Berkeley.

MIT researcher finds evidence of global warming on Neptune's largest moon

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- We're not the only ones experiencing global warming. A Massachusetts Institute of Technology researcher has reported that observations obtained by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and ground-based instruments reveal that Neptune's largest moon, Triton, seems to have heated up significantly since the Voyager space probe visited it in 1989. The warming trend is causing part of Triton's surface of frozen nitrogen to turn into gas, thus making its thin atmosphere denser.

I dunno. Is my car exhaust reaching other planets too?

If other panetary bodies are showing the effects of warming could that mean that something else is causing global warming? like the Sun maybe?

Bradbery was correct! There are Martians and they drive fossil fuel guzzling SUV's!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The warmists spent YEARS denying the sun had anything at all to do with warming. Now they are claiming that the sun is the reason we are not warming like before.

In other words, any lie is good enough for them.

I think they fell in love with their pretty little theories and computer simulations. Unfortunately, when the idea fell apart they just couldn't bring themselves to scrap it and start over again. especially when there was funding to be had to keep their old theories alive. zombie science.

It's not science, it's not love, it's EnviroMarxism, it's getting control of Western Civilization through our willingness to believe their faux science.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Global warming on Mars, ice caps melting

The empirical evidence isn't conclusive on whether global warming is happening on Mars. However, to answer the question on whether the sun is causing Earth's global warming, there is plentiful data on solar activity and Earth's climate. Many papers have examined this data, concluding the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's when the modern global warming trend began.

So the argument that Martian warming disproves anthropogenic global warming fails on two points - there is little empirical evidence that Mars is warming and Mars' climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo, not solar variations

I mean if this just doesn't nail it perfectly!

"Many papers (by EnviroMarxists) have examined this data, concluding the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's when the modern global warming trend began."

They ignore the Big Yellow Thing in the Sky because they can't use it to get their hand on the engines of Western Civilization

"the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's"

"the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's"

"the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's"

"the correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Let's see. Things are warming up because the sun is putting out more energy. Except it is putting out less. Even according to the dingbat Watts, this is the case.

So how are these planets warming because of an increase in solar energy when the output of the sun, the TSI, is less? Fellows, this is pretty pathetic arguementation on your part.

NASA Headline: Deep Solar Minimum | Watts Up With That?

A 12-year low in solar “irradiance”: Careful measurements by several NASA spacecraft show that the sun’s brightness has dropped by 0.02% at visible wavelengths and a whopping 6% at extreme UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996. These changes are not enough to reverse the course of global warming, but there are some other, noticeable side-effects: Earth’s upper atmosphere is heated less by the sun and it is therefore less “puffed up.” Satellites in low Earth orbit experience less atmospheric drag, extending their operational lifetimes. That’s the good news. Unfortunately, space junk also remains longer in Earth orbit, increasing hazards to spacecraft and satellites.

Since 96? That coincidence almost perfectly with Phil Jones statement that there's been no visible warming on Earth since then, no?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Are you saying that less output from the sun makes Mars warmer? Think about it for a moment. The sun just went through a minimum cylcle that was one of the coolest on record. TSI declined, and the numbers of sunspots went down to zero. Yet you are saying because of that mars is warmer?

And look at what happened here on Earth. A strong and persistant La Nina, TSI decline, sunspot minimum, yet 2008 still came in as the tenth warmest year on record.

As for your accusations of the scientists, post referances and data, otherwise you just engaging in yap-yap.

Yeah!

Who are you going to believe, Old Rocks and the Warmers or your obviously flawed "warming on other planets" theory?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Old Rock is like Wlye E Coyote or Boris Badenoff, he's keep blowing himself up yet keeps right on going with the same plan.

If there's evidence of warming on several other planets, then obvious there's some non-AGW mechanism that's at work. This is especially true since Phil Jones himself said there's no evidence of Global Warming on Earth since 1995.

And finally, like Dracula to sunlight, why can't OR show us in a lab how a 200PPM increase in CO2 does all the thing he claims it does

 

[JBeukema]

The warmists spent YEARS denying the sun had anything at all to do with warming. Now they are claiming that the sun is the reason we are not warming like before.

In other words, any lie is good enough for them.

I think they fell in love with their pretty little theories and computer simulations. Unfortunately, when the idea fell apart they just couldn't bring themselves to scrap it and start over again. especially when there was funding to be had to keep their old theories alive. zombie science.

At least one study indicates that many scientists, once they become attached to their pet theories, are slower to change their mind in light of conflicting evidence that preachers

 

[JBeukema]

Experimental results were coded as unexpected if the scientist claimed that the result was not what she or
he expected to find. When we divided their results into expected and unexpected findings, we found that over
half of their findings were unexpected (223 out of 417 results). Thus, rather than being a rare event, the
unexpected finding was a regular occurrence that the scientists reasoned about. The large number of unexpected
findings is important: It is not the case that scientists can take any unexpected finding and make a discovery
merely by focussing on it. Rather, the scientists have to evaluate which findings are due to methodological
error, faulty assumptions, chance events, or to new mechanisms.
Once a finding was classified, expected and unexpected results were treated in different ways. Expected
results usually led to the next step in a sequence of experiments, whereas unexpected findings led to either
replication, change in the protocol, or use of an entirely new protocol.

http://medolympiad.behdasht.gov.ir/uploads/280_936_how scientists build models.pdf

In other words, they 'hide the decline' and adjust the models to get the desired result when the results conflict with their beliefs

 

[JBeukema]

see: Chapter Nine: 'The Believing brain', The Ethical Brain, Michael S. Gazzaniga. Dana Press (April 29, 2005)