Give me your opinion. Explain to me.

[IndependntLogic]

3. A null, or dumbing down of the body politic to where it cannot govern

You seem to be a very smart man and present well thought our positions. However, I think the "dumbing down" has been a more significent factor in our demise. Stupid people make stupid decisions.

And why would the ultra rich not want the USA to continue on exactly the same course we are on now.
You know the ultra rich never participate in a economic downturn. They never worry about where their next meal is coming from or how to keep a roof over their heads. So why would they worry or want change?

And what is wrong with the USA having a declining standard of living. No one ever said the good times would go on forever. When we as a nation of ignorant people keep voting into office the same idiots over and over, why should we expect better results. You know what they say about being crazy; doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Education is the answer and lack of education is the problem. IMO.

I contend that things are going EXACTLY as the ultra rich wish and they have no desire to see change that would negatively effect them and they have the ability and money to make sure that change does not happen. At least change that would cost them.

And example is giving corporations the same status as individuals. Now who do you think that benefits?
Me? Not hardly. Who really wanted that change?. The ultra rich. Why? Cause it is good for them.

Do you think we live in a plutocracy Robert?

Good retort and rebuttal.

Your points are all correct and only need to be elaborated on somewhat.

Our nation state was framed as a Constitutional Federal Republic. In so doing, and nothing was ever done like this historically up to that point, the concept was a bastion of ultimate freedom unlike what the world had ever seen. So much so, that our founding papers even begin with the haunting mantra of:

"We, The People.........."

In this it was concepted that this group of very wild, independent, and very self surviving bunch would do best, by that which would govern itself the least.

It worked. It worked so well that we became the most powerful and envied nation state on Earth, ever.

I disagree. There was also this part about forming a more perfect UNION. It was our unity which made us great. Otherwise, we would be a bunch of city-states today.


And we went to the moon. And our national flag still flies there in the vacuum.

We have done wonders.

And it was all based on:

cheap money
cheap fuels
cheap food
minimal government

I disagree again - sort of. Our money wasn't cheap. Our fuels and food being cheap were not huge factors. Minimal government depends on when and what you're talking about. Obviously there was less government in the West when it was literally untamed and rape, murder etc... were just a daily part of life. But that didn't make us great. You also left out free labor. Then those danm socialists came in a ruined that by interferring with the perfectly good economy, didn't they? Dang. But we have had social programs and given money and resources to citizens and companies since before we were a country. The belief that we were EVER Libertarian or Free market or any of the things by people with selective political memories embrace, is a myth. Never took place. Didn't make us great.

And then as all Republics find themselves, we emrbaced the notion of full raging socialist democracy, rife with a government that is passing up to 5000+ new laws per year, that is n into debt at the rate of $18,760,000 every hour, and that is now so far buried in debt that shortly, it will never be able to pay it off.

And finally to talk like an "ol timer" (god, how did I get here, a fucking week away from 60???), when I was 18, I paid $.26 cents per gallon of gas. My first Jeep loan at Wells Fargo was $11.61 per month for 2 years, I could go to a fast food place, take my GF to a show, fill up my Jeep, and have change left over out of a $5 bill.

It's not the years past, its the mileage as we race to oblivion, as all cultures before us have done. I just didn't think we would see it in my lifetime.

Thank you for the kind words,

Robert

Again the misconception here is that social programs have caused all of our problems. That's simply not true. When you had the Jeep etc... your income was part of a HUGE Middle Class that had significant buying power because as you pointed out, you could use a lot of disposable income.
Over the last 30 years, the top 1% has gone from receiving about 10% of our nation's total income to almost ONE FOURTH of the total income of the country. The Romneys of the world i.e. the Top 1% of the top 1% have TRIPLED their income.
And the Middle Class has seen virtually no increase in income. There are 400 people in this country who make more than the lower 50% of all wage-earners combined.
So we have fewer people with all the money. Those people and corporations are paying a lower effective tax rate than they have in a half century. The rest haven't seen their income keep up with even a nominal inflation rate and they pay on average, a higher effective rate.
And they don't have the disposable income needed to sustain the economy or even basic social services.
It used to be Big American Corporations would contribute to our country's greatness. not anymore. There ARE no Big American Corporations anymore.
There IS a solution for this but nearly 40% of our country is so brain-washed by party & ideology, they refuse to even acknowledge the basics of the problem. They have become so polarized, they would rather hate "the muslim in the white house" and nearly half of the country, than admit the experiment that started under Reagan (Gasp! Did he just criticize Reagan?!?!? And btw, that was my first & 2nd presidential vote), is exactly the source of the problem we now face.
So they will vote our Middle Class out of existence when it could have been saved.

 

[boilermaker55]

I am just preplexed as to how there are people out there in society that still support this muslim in our white house. After all he has done against the american people and their livelyhoods, how can they still support him? It really puzzles me.
What do you think causes them to still support him. Do they honestly like the way obama is trying to transform our country and our lives?
Are they so controlled by the democrat party they believe what is fed to them. I just don't understand anyone wanting our rights and freedoms taken from us, and our finances a well. Can anyone explain it.

First off, why would you give one shit if he is Muslim or not, their is nothing in the Constitution about a religious requirement to be in the Whitehouse.
So your racism is sticking out.

 

[boilermaker55]

I am just preplexed as to how there are people out there in society that still support this muslim in our white house. After all he has done against the american people and their livelyhoods, how can they still support him? It really puzzles me.

Not to worry. You're not alone.......

Wow Shaman, I actually looked at this post, well sort of. Where did you get that pic of the OWS folks???

Nice try for a deflection Loser! Isn't that you holding the sign.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

You seem to be a very smart man and present well thought our positions. However, I think the "dumbing down" has been a more significent factor in our demise. Stupid people make stupid decisions.

And why would the ultra rich not want the USA to continue on exactly the same course we are on now.
You know the ultra rich never participate in a economic downturn. They never worry about where their next meal is coming from or how to keep a roof over their heads. So why would they worry or want change?

And what is wrong with the USA having a declining standard of living. No one ever said the good times would go on forever. When we as a nation of ignorant people keep voting into office the same idiots over and over, why should we expect better results. You know what they say about being crazy; doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Education is the answer and lack of education is the problem. IMO.

I contend that things are going EXACTLY as the ultra rich wish and they have no desire to see change that would negatively effect them and they have the ability and money to make sure that change does not happen. At least change that would cost them.

And example is giving corporations the same status as individuals. Now who do you think that benefits?
Me? Not hardly. Who really wanted that change?. The ultra rich. Why? Cause it is good for them.

Do you think we live in a plutocracy Robert?

Good retort and rebuttal.

Your points are all correct and only need to be elaborated on somewhat.

Our nation state was framed as a Constitutional Federal Republic. In so doing, and nothing was ever done like this historically up to that point, the concept was a bastion of ultimate freedom unlike what the world had ever seen. So much so, that our founding papers even begin with the haunting mantra of:

"We, The People.........."

In this it was concepted that this group of very wild, independent, and very self surviving bunch would do best, by that which would govern itself the least.

It worked. It worked so well that we became the most powerful and envied nation state on Earth, ever.

I disagree. There was also this part about forming a more perfect UNION. It was our unity which made us great. Otherwise, we would be a bunch of city-states today.


And we went to the moon. And our national flag still flies there in the vacuum.

We have done wonders.

And it was all based on:

cheap money
cheap fuels
cheap food
minimal government

I disagree again - sort of. Our money wasn't cheap. Our fuels and food being cheap were not huge factors. Minimal government depends on when and what you're talking about. Obviously there was less government in the West when it was literally untamed and rape, murder etc... were just a daily part of life. But that didn't make us great. You also left out free labor. Then those danm socialists came in a ruined that by interferring with the perfectly good economy, didn't they? Dang. But we have had social programs and given money and resources to citizens and companies since before we were a country. The belief that we were EVER Libertarian or Free market or any of the things by people with selective political memories embrace, is a myth. Never took place. Didn't make us great.

And then as all Republics find themselves, we emrbaced the notion of full raging socialist democracy, rife with a government that is passing up to 5000+ new laws per year, that is n into debt at the rate of $18,760,000 every hour, and that is now so far buried in debt that shortly, it will never be able to pay it off.

And finally to talk like an "ol timer" (god, how did I get here, a fucking week away from 60???), when I was 18, I paid $.26 cents per gallon of gas. My first Jeep loan at Wells Fargo was $11.61 per month for 2 years, I could go to a fast food place, take my GF to a show, fill up my Jeep, and have change left over out of a $5 bill.

It's not the years past, its the mileage as we race to oblivion, as all cultures before us have done. I just didn't think we would see it in my lifetime.

Thank you for the kind words,

Robert

Again the misconception here is that social programs have caused all of our problems. That's simply not true. When you had the Jeep etc... your income was part of a HUGE Middle Class that had significant buying power because as you pointed out, you could use a lot of disposable income.
Over the last 30 years, the top 1% has gone from receiving about 10% of our nation's total income to almost ONE FOURTH of the total income of the country. The Romneys of the world i.e. the Top 1% of the top 1% have TRIPLED their income.
And the Middle Class has seen virtually no increase in income. There are 400 people in this country who make more than the lower 50% of all wage-earners combined.
So we have fewer people with all the money. Those people and corporations are paying a lower effective tax rate than they have in a half century. The rest haven't seen their income keep up with even a nominal inflation rate and they pay on average, a higher effective rate.
And they don't have the disposable income needed to sustain the economy or even basic social services.
It used to be Big American Corporations would contribute to our country's greatness. not anymore. There ARE no Big American Corporations anymore.
There IS a solution for this but nearly 40% of our country is so brain-washed by party & ideology, they refuse to even acknowledge the basics of the problem. They have become so polarized, they would rather hate "the muslim in the white house" and nearly half of the country, than admit the experiment that started under Reagan (Gasp! Did he just criticize Reagan?!?!? And btw, that was my first & 2nd presidential vote), is exactly the source of the problem we now face.
So they will vote our Middle Class out of existence when it could have been saved.

Wow, Independent, you are back and you have not left. I thought perhaps you had started your long trip with your main squeeze and were off for awhile. Great to see your dissenting post. Welcome then.

Ok, your retort is of the classic and now popular "Libertarian" view and has its merits, though flawed in that the entire real point is missed:

At this point, no matter what we are and what we stand for in the policital realm, me, you, the lefties, it matters not now. Why?

We are -$15,600,540,700,000 in debt and growing at $80,000.000 per hour. The cutoff methematically is $20,000,000,000,000., since that is the cutoff for never being able of paying off this debt in any fashion. Put another way, if government were to stop everything at that stage, and concentrate all tax revenue to paying down and absolving this amount as debt, it could not be done. At that stage, it is self perpetuating.

It is part 4, number 13, of the demise of all great cultures in the past, and why they faded into oblivion, without exception, over the last 5000 years. Step 13, item 4 is Unmitigated Debt. And that cut off date is about 30 months off, or the beginning of the 2nd year of Obama's 2nd term.

That fact, is NOT subject to debate and is the actual issue no matter how me, you, or everyone else laments on other topics, otherwise.

Consider.

Robert

 

[IndependntLogic]

Good retort and rebuttal.

Your points are all correct and only need to be elaborated on somewhat.

Our nation state was framed as a Constitutional Federal Republic. In so doing, and nothing was ever done like this historically up to that point, the concept was a bastion of ultimate freedom unlike what the world had ever seen. So much so, that our founding papers even begin with the haunting mantra of:

"We, The People.........."

In this it was concepted that this group of very wild, independent, and very self surviving bunch would do best, by that which would govern itself the least.

It worked. It worked so well that we became the most powerful and envied nation state on Earth, ever.

I disagree. There was also this part about forming a more perfect UNION. It was our unity which made us great. Otherwise, we would be a bunch of city-states today.


And we went to the moon. And our national flag still flies there in the vacuum.

We have done wonders.

And it was all based on:

cheap money
cheap fuels
cheap food
minimal government

I disagree again - sort of. Our money wasn't cheap. Our fuels and food being cheap were not huge factors. Minimal government depends on when and what you're talking about. Obviously there was less government in the West when it was literally untamed and rape, murder etc... were just a daily part of life. But that didn't make us great. You also left out free labor. Then those danm socialists came in a ruined that by interferring with the perfectly good economy, didn't they? Dang. But we have had social programs and given money and resources to citizens and companies since before we were a country. The belief that we were EVER Libertarian or Free market or any of the things by people with selective political memories embrace, is a myth. Never took place. Didn't make us great.

And then as all Republics find themselves, we emrbaced the notion of full raging socialist democracy, rife with a government that is passing up to 5000+ new laws per year, that is n into debt at the rate of $18,760,000 every hour, and that is now so far buried in debt that shortly, it will never be able to pay it off.

And finally to talk like an "ol timer" (god, how did I get here, a fucking week away from 60???), when I was 18, I paid $.26 cents per gallon of gas. My first Jeep loan at Wells Fargo was $11.61 per month for 2 years, I could go to a fast food place, take my GF to a show, fill up my Jeep, and have change left over out of a $5 bill.

It's not the years past, its the mileage as we race to oblivion, as all cultures before us have done. I just didn't think we would see it in my lifetime.

Thank you for the kind words,

Robert

Again the misconception here is that social programs have caused all of our problems. That's simply not true. When you had the Jeep etc... your income was part of a HUGE Middle Class that had significant buying power because as you pointed out, you could use a lot of disposable income.
Over the last 30 years, the top 1% has gone from receiving about 10% of our nation's total income to almost ONE FOURTH of the total income of the country. The Romneys of the world i.e. the Top 1% of the top 1% have TRIPLED their income.
And the Middle Class has seen virtually no increase in income. There are 400 people in this country who make more than the lower 50% of all wage-earners combined.
So we have fewer people with all the money. Those people and corporations are paying a lower effective tax rate than they have in a half century. The rest haven't seen their income keep up with even a nominal inflation rate and they pay on average, a higher effective rate.
And they don't have the disposable income needed to sustain the economy or even basic social services.
It used to be Big American Corporations would contribute to our country's greatness. not anymore. There ARE no Big American Corporations anymore.
There IS a solution for this but nearly 40% of our country is so brain-washed by party & ideology, they refuse to even acknowledge the basics of the problem. They have become so polarized, they would rather hate "the muslim in the white house" and nearly half of the country, than admit the experiment that started under Reagan (Gasp! Did he just criticize Reagan?!?!? And btw, that was my first & 2nd presidential vote), is exactly the source of the problem we now face.
So they will vote our Middle Class out of existence when it could have been saved.

Wow, Independent, you are back and you have not left. I thought perhaps you had started your long trip with your main squeeze and were off for awhile. Great to see your dissenting post. Welcome then.

Ok, your retort is of the classic and now popular "Libertarian" view and has its merits, though flawed in that the entire real point is missed:

At this point, no matter what we are and what we stand for in the policital realm, me, you, the lefties, it matters not now. Why?

We are -$15,600,540,700,000 in debt and growing at $80,000.000 per hour. The cutoff methematically is $20,000,000,000,000., since that is the cutoff for never being able of paying off this debt in any fashion. Put another way, if government were to stop everything at that stage, and concentrate all tax revenue to paying down and absolving this amount as debt, it could not be done. At that stage, it is self perpetuating.

It is part 4, number 13, of the demise of all great cultures in the past, and why they faded into oblivion, without exception, over the last 5000 years. Step 13, item 4 is Unmitigated Debt. And that cut off date is about 30 months off, or the beginning of the 2nd year of Obama's 2nd term.

That fact, is NOT subject to debate and is the actual issue no matter how me, you, or everyone else laments on other topics, otherwise.

Consider.

Robert

Um yeah er. Lovely book knowledge and complete dodge of all relevant points - including the cause of the debt.
Sorry Robert. Zero credibility in this post becuase you've addressed nothing and guess what? Of all the stuff I learned in college, about 5 - 10% actually applied in real life. Put the book away. Try to address points directly. Just a thought.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Um yeah er. Lovely book knowledge and complete dodge of all relevant points - including the cause of the debt.
Sorry Robert. Zero credibility in this post becuase you've addressed nothing and guess what? Of all the stuff I learned in college, about 5 - 10% actually applied in real life. Put the book away. Try to address points directly. Just a thought.

Interesting and horribly flawed comeback. A surprise, you devoted Libertarian you. That was part of my Mastorial Thesis. Still holds since it is playing itself out verbatim. Even after 12 years since I wrote it and at the time, we had a "Surplus" under a very radical democrat and his lefty women, Bill Clinton.

I answered succintly, to the point. Its truth remains.

We are doomed as a culture unless we absolve our debt. No exceptions.

Education is good. A Trident Sub is better.

Robert

 

[candycorn]

Give me your opinion. Explain to me.

Well OK. You asked for it.

My opinion is based on your thought? that a Muslim is in the White House.

And my opinion is; you are stupid.

If you will write a couple more sentences, you could offer proof of my opinion.

Fuck, man that was surgical!

 

[francoHFW]

Jeebus. Pub dupes. BAD CITIZENS...

 

[Crackerjack]

Free gubmint stuff? Wtf you talking about? Where do I get it? Is this one of those guvmint auctions where I can buy a drug dealers Corvette for a 100 dollars? I'm in.

Cobo Hall!

[youtube]YfGLB8LO1aM[/youtube]

Clearly we need to re-elect Obama to make sure all these fine people get the gubmint money they want.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Barry may be many things, but he is not a Muslim. Was he raised in a Muslin nation at some point in his life? Yep, but I'm not here to say that he is Muslim. As an AMERICAN, religion is something that is personal and it is a sacred right. So, even if he was, I can't say that it would make one bit of difference. And it shouldn't... to anyone. Just like it shouldn't matter to anyone that Mitt Romney is a Mormon. When it comes to religion, it isn't any of your business (so long as it isn't illegal or involves the use of hookers as acolytes). Yes, it gives you an insight into the person's convictions, but short of that "Freedom of Religion" is not just some advertising slogan for me.

I am an evangelical Christian conservative. I believe that the Bible is the word of God. Barry may or Barry may not, I cannot look into his heart. All I can tell is what he does...

I believe that Barrack Hussein Obama is a President on the order of James Earl Carter and should be replaced for that exact reason. I believe that he is one of the most DEVISIVE Presidents ever to sit in that oval office and I believe that it is his mouth that made that divide wider... not his heart.

Reading through all the posts in this good thread, I seized on yours for the most accurate, fair and erudite. Well put and posted.

Further, thank you for serving.

My experience after traveling with work in 132 of the 155 Nation States of the Earth over these nearly 40 years, has been the Islamic states are a world of fun. They are ultra conservative to the point of subjegatng their women in heinous suppression, very very myopic in their wolrd view, totally fascinated with the USA and me, and will give you the last crumb of life, so you can eat another day.

With that said, to have a muslim or another ilk in our Whitehouse is inconsequential. As you pointed out, he simply needs to be replaced ASAP.

The main reason for this in my view is that he has:

no economic sense
cannot fathom the needs and hopes of Everyman
continues to emrbace unwarranted adventurism in far off lands
does not understand high school math
embraes notions of oligarchy
has never stated in a speech we are a "Republic"
uses always the metaphor, "me". rather than the fact of saying "we".

His time is over.

Hat is tipped,

Robert

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yes, I do take issue with that.

LOL

Explain why the greatest government tit suckers live in red states, and why those who contribute the most and get back the least live in blue states. Could it be because conservatives are dumber than shit phonies?

i dont know Dick....there are a lot of Tit suckers in California....and some aint even Americans.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Mass demonstration in AFghanistan after the incident where the Sgt. massacred those folks.
Ten thousand Muslims in the streets with poles and Obama dolls burning.
"Down with Obama"
Sure, Obama is a Muslim. Right.

thats what i say Gad.....those fuckers hate him more than Bush...Obama is about as Muslim as Dean is a Republican.....

 

[g5000]

I am just preplexed as to how there are people out there in society that still support this muslim in our white house. After all he has done against the american people and their livelyhoods, how can they still support him? It really puzzles me.
What do you think causes them to still support him. Do they honestly like the way obama is trying to transform our country and our lives?
Are they so controlled by the democrat party they believe what is fed to them. I just don't understand anyone wanting our rights and freedoms taken from us, and our finances a well. Can anyone explain it.

You lost me at muslim.

Even though I detest Obama, I refuse to be a bedfellow of a non-critical thinker.

 

[Harry Dresden]

oh yes, an illiterate society is your final solution? years ago many Americans could not read or write, education is the basis for a greater society, govt. funded schooling is not the best, but neither is private education.

Oh please. Everyone should be taught to read and write. Years ago parents couldn't read and write to teach their children. As things evolve we (as in Americans) have a tendency to over simplify for the "good of all". Government funded schooling has dumbed down our society to the extent that everyone should advance at the same pace. Not everyone is capable of receiving a college degree yet we are now saying it's necessary to get one. So we dumb down the HS graduation requirements then scream further education is necessary and should be paid for by taxpayers.

Yeah.....we've forgotten all-about those good, ol' fashioned concepts like hard-work....

.....for those who can't afford.....
(....Or, shouldn't be entitled-to.....)

.....advanced-education!!!!

which one is you Shithead?.....

 

[auditor0007]

I am just preplexed as to how there are people out there in society that still support this muslim in our white house. After all he has done against the american people and their livelyhoods, how can they still support him? It really puzzles me.
What do you think causes them to still support him. Do they honestly like the way obama is trying to transform our country and our lives?
Are they so controlled by the democrat party they believe what is fed to them. I just don't understand anyone wanting our rights and freedoms taken from us, and our finances a well. Can anyone explain it.

Yay, another troll.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Note to self: If you ant to get rid of some ignernt right winger, like Sniper Fire, just ask them to explain their rabid nonsense. POOF!! They're gone.

seen many a Left Winger do the same thing.....you being one of them.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Jeebus. Pub dupes. BAD CITIZENS...

the only Dupe here is you Frankie....and your probably just as bad of a citizen......

 

[ecinicola]

well, i see where everyones train of thought is and how the mentality runs. Obama himself admits he is a Muslim, yet they refuse to even believe Obama. Does that tell you anything?
On the news today, Obama wants to now tax the money you pay into soc sec for your retirement. Obama has dung himself a hole and the american people and now wants us to pay for his mistakes and hisi spending. He wants IRS to be in every aspect of your life, such as you must buy into his obamacare, or IRS will fine you 700.00 The Obamacare is the most uncontitutional thing I have ever heard of, and I hope the supreme court throws it out. Obama could care less about the constitution. He also wants to avoid congress and make all the decisions and make this country communistic He has given our tax money to Europe and other countries, while this country is in a economic crisis. And I could go on and on.
VOTE HIM OUT!!

 

[Harry Dresden]

well, i see where everyones train of thought is and how the mentality runs. Obama himself admits he is a Muslim, yet they refuse to even believe Obama. Does that tell you anything?

so you say.....lets see him saying it,not you....got a link....got a quote....something with it coming from his mouth?....

 

[Robert_Stephens]

well, i see where everyones train of thought is and how the mentality runs. Obama himself admits he is a Muslim, yet they refuse to even believe Obama. Does that tell you anything?
On the news today, Obama wants to now tax the money you pay into soc sec for your retirement. Obama has dung himself a hole and the american people and now wants us to pay for his mistakes and hisi spending. He wants IRS to be in every aspect of your life, such as you must buy into his obamacare, or IRS will fine you 700.00 The Obamacare is the most uncontitutional thing I have ever heard of, and I hope the supreme court throws it out. Obama could care less about the constitution. He also wants to avoid congress and make all the decisions and make this country communistic He has given our tax money to Europe and other countries, while this country is in a economic crisis. And I could go on and on.
VOTE HIM OUT!!

The rattle here is nonsense, et al. The issue is your last line and you are correct.

Vote him out. Period!

Robert