Gibson Guitars Settles With DoJ...

[IGetItAlready]

That's Gibson's claim. The government's claim is they were were importing rare and exotic wood without an import license. So they settled, and Gibson claimed they didn't really break any law. How hard is it? When you import exotic and rare wood, you need a license, and the only licenses granted are to countries that have sustainable harvesting. Nothing to me seems unreasonable about that.

In this country we have this quaint way of doing things that says you are innocent until you are proven guilty. There were no criminal charges filed, there was no court case, no one was proven guilty, and no one admitted guilt.All of that can be summed up in 4 words, Gibson broke no law. You can quote anyone you want that says otherwise, they are all blowing smoke.

Gibson admitted it violated the Lacey Act. They pleaded guilty. They paid the fine, community service contribution, and agreed to forfeit the wood. What part of that don't you get?

Simply wrong Dick. Gibson's CEO is on record stating their wood was obtained legally. The settlement was agreed to because the feds were threatening to shut down their Indian imports if Gibson didn't play ball with them.

There was no "guilty plea" as there were no charges filed.

The ONLY time the wood was "forfeited" was when the armed agents busted in to take it. As per the settlement, the feds are now required to return the wood.

This is a beautiful example of Obama's bulldogs in the DoJ tying up private funds that might otherwise have been donated to "the opposition". Not so hard to understand if you want to.

 

[JoeB131]

It's fucking wood, who CARES? plant another tree for God's sake. Oh that's right it's a special tree, that the POOR folks in Madigascar want to sell. So libtards who do you care for more, the poor or the envirocrazies......tick tock tick tock!

Except those trees are endangered, you can't simply "plant" another one.

Madegascar has one of the most endangered ecosystems on the planet. It's not just the trees, it's all the animals that depend on the trees.

 

[Dick Tuck]

In this country we have this quaint way of doing things that says you are innocent until you are proven guilty. There were no criminal charges filed, there was no court case, no one was proven guilty, and no one admitted guilt.All of that can be summed up in 4 words, Gibson broke no law. You can quote anyone you want that says otherwise, they are all blowing smoke.

Gibson admitted it violated the Lacey Act. They pleaded guilty. They paid the fine, community service contribution, and agreed to forfeit the wood. What part of that don't you get?

No, the government insists they did, Gibson doesn't have enough money to fight the case in court. There is a difference, learn it.

Gibson didn't have the money to fight the case? So they agreed to a $300,000 fine, a $50,000 public service penalty, and forfeited $261,844 in product, because they couldn't afford to fight the case? What bullshit. Do you realize how illogical your claim is?

In any case, what we have is Gibson signing a document that admits it violated the Lacey Act, and stipulating to the fact that they were warned by an employee that the importation of unfinished ebony product from Madagascar was a violation of their law, and they did so anyway.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's fucking wood, who CARES? plant another tree for God's sake. Oh that's right it's a special tree, that the POOR folks in Madigascar want to sell. So libtards who do you care for more, the poor or the envirocrazies......tick tock tick tock!

Except those trees are endangered, you can't simply "plant" another one.

Madegascar has one of the most endangered ecosystems on the planet. It's not just the trees, it's all the animals that depend on the trees.

Except you can. Madagascar has strict regulations regarding harvesting of wood, and Gibson was buying the wood from a government approved vendor. The US government got involved because some environmentalists here in the US, who are distinguished by the fact that they have never set foot in Madagascar or India, argued that Madagascar is not doing enough to ensure that the vendors they approve are protecting the forests. Now Gibson has to go to the expense of certifying the source of the wood themselves instead of relying on the due diligence of a foreign government.

I do thank you for jumping into a thread you know nothing about and demonstrating your ignorance though, it amuses me.

 

[JoeB131]

It's fucking wood, who CARES? plant another tree for God's sake. Oh that's right it's a special tree, that the POOR folks in Madigascar want to sell. So libtards who do you care for more, the poor or the envirocrazies......tick tock tick tock!

Except those trees are endangered, you can't simply "plant" another one.

Madegascar has one of the most endangered ecosystems on the planet. It's not just the trees, it's all the animals that depend on the trees.

Except you can. Madagascar has strict regulations regarding harvesting of wood, and Gibson was buying the wood from a government approved vendor. The US government got involved because some environmentalists here in the US, who are distinguished by the fact that they have never set foot in Madagascar or India, argued that Madagascar is not doing enough to ensure that the vendors they approve are protecting the forests. Now Gibson has to go to the expense of certifying the source of the wood themselves instead of relying on the due diligence of a foreign government.

I do thank you for jumping into a thread you know nothing about and demonstrating your ignorance though, it amuses me.

Guy, your boys at Gibson KNUCKLED UNDER. They lost. They gave up. They paid the fine...

They are done... all your whining about the big mean old gummit picking on them, and they scampered off with their tails between their legs...

 

[tjvh]

Gibson had two licenses from two Central American countries for those woods. This was poached wood. Like it or not, importing exotic woods requires a license. Not that you give a rats ass about a limited and rare commodity. I bet you'd buy blood diamonds.

Then boycott them, or is that only if they're against gay marriage? So does the country in question have a right to sell their natural resources?

Can't see myself buying a new guitar. I'm happy with my collection. A cheap Les Paul would have been fun to own, but I'm not going out to buy a new one or a classic model. The imports from the country in question, i.e. Madagascar, has a big problem with poaching exotic and rare woods. Gibson had no import license for that country, nor evidence that they were legally purchased. Gibson's initial response was it was a contractor's fault. Bullshit.

So kick down their doors and goosestep inside with your guns drawn... Um...OK.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gibson admitted it violated the Lacey Act. They pleaded guilty. They paid the fine, community service contribution, and agreed to forfeit the wood. What part of that don't you get?

No, the government insists they did, Gibson doesn't have enough money to fight the case in court. There is a difference, learn it.

Gibson didn't have the money to fight the case? So they agreed to a $300,000 fine, a $50,000 public service penalty, and forfeited $261,844 in product, because they couldn't afford to fight the case? What bullshit. Do you realize how illogical your claim is?

In any case, what we have is Gibson signing a document that admits it violated the Lacey Act, and stipulating to the fact that they were warned by an employee that the importation of unfinished ebony product from Madagascar was a violation of their law, and they did so anyway.

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

 

[JoeB131]

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

 

[Dick Tuck]

In this country we have this quaint way of doing things that says you are innocent until you are proven guilty. There were no criminal charges filed, there was no court case, no one was proven guilty, and no one admitted guilt.All of that can be summed up in 4 words, Gibson broke no law. You can quote anyone you want that says otherwise, they are all blowing smoke.

Gibson admitted it violated the Lacey Act. They pleaded guilty. They paid the fine, community service contribution, and agreed to forfeit the wood. What part of that don't you get?

Simply wrong Dick. Gibson's CEO is on record stating their wood was obtained legally. The settlement was agreed to because the feds were threatening to shut down their Indian imports if Gibson didn't play ball with them.

There was no "guilty plea" as there were no charges filed.

The ONLY time the wood was "forfeited" was when the armed agents busted in to take it. As per the settlement, the feds are now required to return the wood.

This is a beautiful example of Obama's bulldogs in the DoJ tying up private funds that might otherwise have been donated to "the opposition". Not so hard to understand if you want to.

I don't care as much about what some suit tells the public. He signed an admission that he violated the Lacey act. You're also wrong about the forfeiture of the illegally obtained ebony.

But if you want to pretend that Fish & Wildlife investigators are Obama's secret black helicopters, enjoy yourself. You ought to start your own shortwave radio show.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except those trees are endangered, you can't simply "plant" another one.

Madegascar has one of the most endangered ecosystems on the planet. It's not just the trees, it's all the animals that depend on the trees.

Except you can. Madagascar has strict regulations regarding harvesting of wood, and Gibson was buying the wood from a government approved vendor. The US government got involved because some environmentalists here in the US, who are distinguished by the fact that they have never set foot in Madagascar or India, argued that Madagascar is not doing enough to ensure that the vendors they approve are protecting the forests. Now Gibson has to go to the expense of certifying the source of the wood themselves instead of relying on the due diligence of a foreign government.

I do thank you for jumping into a thread you know nothing about and demonstrating your ignorance though, it amuses me.

Guy, your boys at Gibson KNUCKLED UNDER. They lost. They gave up. They paid the fine...

They are done... all your whining about the big mean old gummit picking on them, and they scampered off with their tails between their legs...

Yes, they lost. That does not make it right, does it? If me pointing out the government is wrong makes me a whiner than I will gladly wear that label. It makes far more sense to whine about the government than to let them knock down your door and shoot you.

On the other hand, if you prefer being a cog in the machine that destroys people simply because you don't want people to think you are whiner, you are pathetic.

 

[IGetItAlready]

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

Maybe they thought that being in compliance with the laws was enough to spare them all the abuse...they clearly thought wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

The government raided their plant a year ago, why didn't they do something before now?

 

[tjvh]

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

The government raided their plant a year ago, why didn't they do something before now?

They have been fighting it ever since.

 

[Dick Tuck]

No, the government insists they did, Gibson doesn't have enough money to fight the case in court. There is a difference, learn it.

Gibson didn't have the money to fight the case? So they agreed to a $300,000 fine, a $50,000 public service penalty, and forfeited $261,844 in product, because they couldn't afford to fight the case? What bullshit. Do you realize how illogical your claim is?

In any case, what we have is Gibson signing a document that admits it violated the Lacey Act, and stipulating to the fact that they were warned by an employee that the importation of unfinished ebony product from Madagascar was a violation of their law, and they did so anyway.

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Pure speculation. They signed a settlement agreement admitting to the violation of the Lacey Act. That's a fact. If their case was as cut and dry as you claim, it wouldn't be all that hard to get a quick decision. It's not like Gibson is some nickel and dime organizations. They're one of the largest, if not the largest, musical instrument manufacturers in the world.

Gibson Guitar Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gibson also owns and makes instruments under such brands as Baldwin,[2] Epiphone,[13] Kalamazoo,[citation needed] Kramer,[14] Maestro,[15] Slingerland,[2] Steinberger,[16] Tobias,[17] Valley Arts[citation needed] and Wurlitzer.[2]
Gibson purchased Garrison Guitars in 2007.[18]

That doesn't even include the numerous knock-off licenses they hold.

 

[JoeB131]

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

The government raided their plant a year ago, why didn't they do something before now?

They have been fighting it ever since.

Again, why drag this out for a year... when they knew they were going to lose...

 

[Dick Tuck]

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

The government raided their plant a year ago, why didn't they do something before now?

They have been fighting it ever since.

They settled, agreeing that they violated the Lacey Act and along with fines and penalties, forfeited the illegally imported wood.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

Maybe they thought that being in compliance with the laws was enough to spare them all the abuse...they clearly thought wrong.

However, they admitted to not being in compliance with the Lacey Act. Dude, you just got tea bagged.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Let me show you some numbers. Gibson essentially paid $611,844 dollars to avoid a long court battle that would have easily drained 10 times that much from their profits every year. Which do you think makes more sense?

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

The government raided their plant a year ago, why didn't they do something before now?

Why didn't Gibson sue? Ask them. They did admit to violating the Lacey Act and paid a fine, penalty, and forfeited property.

 

[tjvh]

The government raided their plant a year ago, why didn't they do something before now?

They have been fighting it ever since.

Again, why drag this out for a year... when they knew they were going to lose...

How did you conclude they thought they were going to lose?

 

[IGetItAlready]

Then why didn't they just do that to start with?

Maybe they thought that being in compliance with the laws was enough to spare them all the abuse...they clearly thought wrong.

However, they admitted to not being in compliance with the Lacey Act. Dude, you just got tea bagged.

Where is this admission?
Can I see a link or a copy because if there is such an admission it would stand in stark contrast to statements made by those willing to discuss the settlement, ie: Gibson.