German Army in WW2

[nitroz]

The German Army definitely was possibly the most powerful back then, but they played with fire and got tag team raped in the end.

 

[rightwinger]

Seems like a whole bunch of people here need to do a whole lot of research....... which they have yet to do.......

Yea....some People just ain't got the book learnin of you and me

 

[Ringel05]

Seems like a whole bunch of people here need to do a whole lot of research....... which they have yet to do.......

Yea....some People just ain't got the book learnin of you and me

What's that thar book learnin' yu talkin' up?

 

[rightwinger]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

 

[ginscpy]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

Didn't think the winter clothing would be needed.

The media and the miltary "experts" were almost unanimous in their belief that the Soviets would be totally defeated in a matter of a few months - at most.

 

[rightwinger]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

Didn't think the winter clothing would be needed.

The media and the miltary "experts" were almost unanimous in their belief that the Soviets would be totally defeated in a matter of a few months - at most.

It highlights Hitlers philosophy of wanting the ultimate super weapon at the expense of the basic necessities his troops needed

To not have a contingency in place when entering a hostile climate like Russia was stupidity

 

[barry1960]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

There were several cutting edge technologies that influenced WWII. Despite having the world's best scientists in the 1930's, the German record on technology is mixed at best.

1) Atomic Bomb - Germany made no serious attempt to develop this technology despite the fact that Germany had the world's leading physicists when Hitler came to power. Nazi Germany's emphasis of ideology over science destroyed their educational system and its racial policies caused the immigration of many leading scientists. One could argue that with different racial policies, Germany could have refrained from invading Poland, developed atomic bombs and dictated a peace by the mid-1940s.

2) Radar - this was an extremely important technology that was ignored by Nazi Germany. It decided the battle of Britain and was a decisive factor in the battle of the Atlantic

3) Jet planes - this may have been an important factor, but the development of the jet fighter was curiously delayed by Hitler as he initially put the ME-262 o\in production as a bomber. Employing jet fighters earlier may have made a difference.

4) Rockets - The V1 and V2 attacks were of little significance. Although important for the future course of world events, Germany could have spent its resources better than on rocket technology.

It was the more mundane items that really made a difference. WWII was a war of production and attrition. Germany weapons were not as readily changeable with interchangable parts. Germany had different manufacturers creating too many different models of weapons, rather than concentrating on a single model that could be mass produced. The Russian T-34 tank is a good example of a solid model that was mass produced effectively. Even the somewhat poor US Sherman tank could overwhelm the German Panzer of Tiger tank by shear numbers or with air support.

Another mundane item in 1941 made a big difference. The USSR and Germany had different gauges on their railroad tracks. Such a difference became critical as Germany attempted to drive deep into the USSR. The only efficient method for adequate supplies to reach the front was by rail.

Germany was simply outproduced and overwhelmed. Germany depended in a large part on horses for transport, were the US was a mechanized army and the USSR was provided a large number of trucks.

And yea, a few coats might have been nice in Russia. It is somewhat inefficient to spend all that time training soldiers only to let them become casualties of frostbite. Come to think of it, how about motor oil that didn't freeze solid in low temperatures?

 

[demiurge]

Hey Barry, good analysis, one thing wrong though. It was the Japanese that didn't have radar, and that was a big problem for them, though until the US rolled it out working with the British, the Japanese were far superior at night fighting because they trained expert spotters specifically for that role. The battles around Guadalcanal highlighted Japanese superiority in night fighting until the US built a technological advantage.

The Germans on the other hand INVENTED radar, and used it with great impact. The success of the Luftwaffe at intercepting Bomber Command caused the British to switch over to night fighting, for example. In the initial stages of the war, radar was really only of defensive use in the air war. Neither side had effective EW capabilities that allowed for radar usage over enemy territory. So the British radar was a huge defensive advantage in the Battle of Britain - but that was based on the original German designs in the early to mid 30s. The Brits then upgraded to the 'Dowding System', which provided greater accuracy in detection and worked with sophisticated command and control routines. The Germans had a very advanced radio navigation system. When the Brits went on the offensive, the Germans savaged them with effective interception, and then later with night fighters that employed radar on the plane itself.

The Germans were also the first to use radar onboard ships - the Graf Spee did so to hunt merchanment for example. The Brits got the idea from them. It isn't a prominent part of WWII lore simply because the Germans didn't have much of a surface navy. But it was one of the reasons German ships were very accurate - they also used it as range finders.

If you are interested, there's more at radarworld.org under 'germany.' I'd post the link but there's a rule that prohibits me to do so until I make more posts on this site.

 

[demiurge]

Seems like a whole bunch of people here need to do a whole lot of research....... which they have yet to do.......

That's one of the reasons I enjoy discussion boards. Sometimes because of well researched and reasoned points by others.

But often because I feel something is not quite right and I end up doing my own research on the subject. I've learned a hell of a lot just by questioning assumptions and fact checking.

 

[barry1960]

Hey Barry, good analysis, one thing wrong though. It was the Japanese that didn't have radar, and that was a big problem for them, though until the US rolled it out working with the British, the Japanese were far superior at night fighting because they trained expert spotters specifically for that role. The battles around Guadalcanal highlighted Japanese superiority in night fighting until the US built a technological advantage.

The Germans on the other hand INVENTED radar, and used it with great impact. The success of the Luftwaffe at intercepting Bomber Command caused the British to switch over to night fighting, for example. In the initial stages of the war, radar was really only of defensive use in the air war. Neither side had effective EW capabilities that allowed for radar usage over enemy territory. So the British radar was a huge defensive advantage in the Battle of Britain - but that was based on the original German designs in the early to mid 30s. The Brits then upgraded to the 'Dowding System', which provided greater accuracy in detection and worked with sophisticated command and control routines. The Germans had a very advanced radio navigation system. When the Brits went on the offensive, the Germans savaged them with effective interception, and then later with night fighters that employed radar on the plane itself.

The Germans were also the first to use radar onboard ships - the Graf Spee did so to hunt merchanment for example. The Brits got the idea from them. It isn't a prominent part of WWII lore simply because the Germans didn't have much of a surface navy. But it was one of the reasons German ships were very accurate - they also used it as range finders.

If you are interested, there's more at radarworld.org under 'germany.' I'd post the link but there's a rule that prohibits me to do so until I make more posts on this site.

The use of the word "ignored" was poor. Germany did invent radar, but did not deploy it to the effect it could have or concentrate on developing it.

Good analysis on radar.

 

[rightwinger]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

There were several cutting edge technologies that influenced WWII. Despite having the world's best scientists in the 1930's, the German record on technology is mixed at best.

1) Atomic Bomb - Germany made no serious attempt to develop this technology despite the fact that Germany had the world's leading physicists when Hitler came to power. Nazi Germany's emphasis of ideology over science destroyed their educational system and its racial policies caused the immigration of many leading scientists. One could argue that with different racial policies, Germany could have refrained from invading Poland, developed atomic bombs and dictated a peace by the mid-1940s.

2) Radar - this was an extremely important technology that was ignored by Nazi Germany. It decided the battle of Britain and was a decisive factor in the battle of the Atlantic

3) Jet planes - this may have been an important factor, but the development of the jet fighter was curiously delayed by Hitler as he initially put the ME-262 o\in production as a bomber. Employing jet fighters earlier may have made a difference.

4) Rockets - The V1 and V2 attacks were of little significance. Although important for the future course of world events, Germany could have spent its resources better than on rocket technology.

It was the more mundane items that really made a difference. WWII was a war of production and attrition. Germany weapons were not as readily changeable with interchangable parts. Germany had different manufacturers creating too many different models of weapons, rather than concentrating on a single model that could be mass produced. The Russian T-34 tank is a good example of a solid model that was mass produced effectively. Even the somewhat poor US Sherman tank could overwhelm the German Panzer of Tiger tank by shear numbers or with air support.

Another mundane item in 1941 made a big difference. The USSR and Germany had different gauges on their railroad tracks. Such a difference became critical as Germany attempted to drive deep into the USSR. The only efficient method for adequate supplies to reach the front was by rail.

Germany was simply outproduced and overwhelmed. Germany depended in a large part on horses for transport, were the US was a mechanized army and the USSR was provided a large number of trucks.

And yea, a few coats might have been nice in Russia. It is somewhat inefficient to spend all that time training soldiers only to let them become casualties of frostbite. Come to think of it, how about motor oil that didn't freeze solid in low temperatures?

Great points

Another area where Germany was weak was intelligence. They did develop the Enigma machine but were unable to adapt it or tell that it had been compromised. They were repeatedly tricked by the British on the effectiveness of their bombing and rockets. Most importantly, they misread the strength of Soviet forces and the location of the D Day Invasion. They actually thought Patton had an Army

 

[Ringel05]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

There were multiple allied assassination plans for doing away with Hitler, most were nixed because his control of the Wehrmacht was doing more to help the allied war effort than the German war effort.
Even with his control, what the Heer and Waffen SS were able to accomplish is nothing short of amazing. In many cases, especially towards the end, even many of his SS generals disobeyed his orders and did what they were taught to do as soldiers and leaders. If you look at the whole scope, if the field command staff had followed his orders to the letter the war would have been over 6 to 8 months earlier. Much of what the Wehrmacht taught was a loose command hold over troops, specifically allowing great flexibility all the way down to the lowest private to recognize and take the initiative to exploit opportunities.
The great success of the so-called Blitzkrieg were the innovators like Heinz Guderian and Erwin Rommel who grasped the concept of combined unit mobile warfare while the great powers were still trapped in a WWI mindset of waging war though much of the German High Command were also still thinking in WWI terms.
In many cases it was pure luck that the Germans did what they did against Poland, England and France given the fact that the Wehrmacht was still working out the kinks and the interference by some in the General Staff served to slow down the advance because they did not understand mobile warfare and were too cautious.
If one looks at all the early assault plans the General Staff used, from Poland thru Barbarossa, they were all essentially The Schlieffen Plan with some modifications, not a true Blitzkrieg as envisioned by Guderian and other young officers.

 

[Ringel05]

The German Army would have done better in WWII if Hitler had invested in warm winter clothing instead of jets

There were several cutting edge technologies that influenced WWII. Despite having the world's best scientists in the 1930's, the German record on technology is mixed at best.

1) Atomic Bomb - Germany made no serious attempt to develop this technology despite the fact that Germany had the world's leading physicists when Hitler came to power. Nazi Germany's emphasis of ideology over science destroyed their educational system and its racial policies caused the immigration of many leading scientists. One could argue that with different racial policies, Germany could have refrained from invading Poland, developed atomic bombs and dictated a peace by the mid-1940s.

2) Radar - this was an extremely important technology that was ignored by Nazi Germany. It decided the battle of Britain and was a decisive factor in the battle of the Atlantic

3) Jet planes - this may have been an important factor, but the development of the jet fighter was curiously delayed by Hitler as he initially put the ME-262 o\in production as a bomber. Employing jet fighters earlier may have made a difference.

4) Rockets - The V1 and V2 attacks were of little significance. Although important for the future course of world events, Germany could have spent its resources better than on rocket technology.

It was the more mundane items that really made a difference. WWII was a war of production and attrition. Germany weapons were not as readily changeable with interchangable parts. Germany had different manufacturers creating too many different models of weapons, rather than concentrating on a single model that could be mass produced. The Russian T-34 tank is a good example of a solid model that was mass produced effectively. Even the somewhat poor US Sherman tank could overwhelm the German Panzer of Tiger tank by shear numbers or with air support.

Another mundane item in 1941 made a big difference. The USSR and Germany had different gauges on their railroad tracks. Such a difference became critical as Germany attempted to drive deep into the USSR. The only efficient method for adequate supplies to reach the front was by rail.

Germany was simply outproduced and overwhelmed. Germany depended in a large part on horses for transport, were the US was a mechanized army and the USSR was provided a large number of trucks.

And yea, a few coats might have been nice in Russia. It is somewhat inefficient to spend all that time training soldiers only to let them become casualties of frostbite. Come to think of it, how about motor oil that didn't freeze solid in low temperatures?

Great points

Another area where Germany was weak was intelligence. They did develop the Enigma machine but were unable to adapt it or tell that it had been compromised. They were repeatedly tricked by the British on the effectiveness of their bombing and rockets. Most importantly, they misread the strength of Soviet forces and the location of the D Day Invasion. They actually thought Patton had an Army

I some areas, mostly "locally", the Germans managed to compromise British intelligence/underground efforts for years.
Kind of off subject a little but you mentioned logistics, have you read Supplying War, Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton by Martin Van Creveld? Another one: by the same author, Command in War. Excellent books.

 

[High_Gravity]

Best ever

If they were the best ever they wouldn't have lost you stupid faggot.

 

[GHook93]

they were outnumbered and outgunned severely in france, and defeated France

Quarkers could defeat FranceQ!

and Britain.

Without America they would have been!

then they were even more outnumbered in Russia and nearly took Moscow.

they were impressive.

The USSR lost between 24-26 mil people. It was a tough win to swallow!

 

[Ringel05]

Best ever

If they were the best ever they wouldn't have lost you stupid faggot.

In tactics and training the Germans were the best, by leaps and bounds. Where they lost was in logistics and sheer numbers, not to mention that Bohemian Corporal's personal control, he lacked any real grasp of modern battlefield tactics which relied on mobility, command initiative and proper selection of defensive locations when the need arose.
Not saying the Germans could have won in Russia, that debate still rages, but it's entirely possible they could have forced a settled armistice with Stalin if Hitler had left tactical control in the hands of his generals. One things for sure, Stalingrad would have never happened, the generals didn't want it, they wanted to by-pass it, it had no real tactical significance.

 

[rightwinger]

Best ever

If they were the best ever they wouldn't have lost you stupid faggot.

In tactics and training the Germans were the best, by leaps and bounds. Where they lost was in logistics and sheer numbers, not to mention that Bohemian Corporal's personal control, he lacked any real grasp of modern battlefield tactics which relied on mobility, command initiative and proper selection of defensive locations when the need arose.
Not saying the Germans could have won in Russia, that debate still rages, but it's entirely possible they could have forced a settled armistice with Stalin if Hitler had left tactical control in the hands of his generals. One things for sure, Stalingrad would have never happened, the generals didn't want it, they wanted to by-pass it, it had no real tactical significance.

The real question was what would have happened if he never attacked the Soviets. He would have been hard to dislodge from western Europe, Scandinavia and North Africa

 

[Ringel05]

If they were the best ever they wouldn't have lost you stupid faggot.

In tactics and training the Germans were the best, by leaps and bounds. Where they lost was in logistics and sheer numbers, not to mention that Bohemian Corporal's personal control, he lacked any real grasp of modern battlefield tactics which relied on mobility, command initiative and proper selection of defensive locations when the need arose.
Not saying the Germans could have won in Russia, that debate still rages, but it's entirely possible they could have forced a settled armistice with Stalin if Hitler had left tactical control in the hands of his generals. One things for sure, Stalingrad would have never happened, the generals didn't want it, they wanted to by-pass it, it had no real tactical significance.

The real question was what would have happened if he never attacked the Soviets. He would have been hard to dislodge from western Europe, Scandinavia and North Africa

Hell, imagine what would have happened if Rommel had been properly supplied and supported, as it was, using what he had, he came so close to Cairo and Alexandria that people in both cities were panicking, trying to get out as fast as they could. North Africa and the Middle East would probably have been in German hands making the Mediterranean a "German" sea, a major catastrophe for the allied cause.