Geothermal Energy for the Future?

[Old Rocks]

Tiny town takes geothermal lead « Daily Journal of Commerce

The southern Oregon city of Paisley, best known for its annual mosquito festival, could soon add another distinction: the site of the state’s first commercial geothermal electricity plant. The federal Department of Energy awarded the project a $2 million grant.

Lake County is flush with underground hot water. Sometimes, it bubbles to the surface, as it does at the Summer Lake Hot Springs resort.
Other times, farmers tap into it when drilling irrigation wells. That happened on the property of Mark and Erin Douglas, where the power plant would be built.

“We drilled it in 1980-81,” Erin Douglas said, “My grandpa did, and he talked to people then” about using the water for a power plant.

“It wasn’t hot enough or enough flow to make sense then,” she said.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oregon campus seeks global first on geothermal power - North America - Renewable energy news - Recharge - wind, solar, biofuels, wave/tidal/hydro and geothermal

Oregon campus seeks global first on geothermal power
By yearend, Oregon Institute of Technology (OIT) aims to become the world’s first campus entirely powered from a geothermal energy source on its property, officials say.

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Pratt & Whitney Power Systems, a unit of United Technologies, has delivered an emissions-free PureCycle power system that will harness heat from geothermal hot water to generate electricity.

That system will produce 20% of the institute’s campus electricity demand, saving the school about $100,000 annually. It will be the first geothermal power production facility in Oregon.

Pratt & Whitney officials say the PureCycle unit can operate with water at temperatures as low as 195 degrees Fahrenheit to generate electrical power around the clock.

Klamath Falls, where OIT is located, has extensive geothermal resources.

Pratt & Whitney is expected to provide additional power systems to bring the campus to a “NetZero” energy user by yearend.

The school offers a degree in Renewable Energy Engineering and will use the geothermal power plant as a teaching tool and hands-on laboratory for OIT students.

"This is an important addition to our campus academic programs that will better prepare our students to perform in the real world," says John Lund, director of Geo-Heat Center at the Institute.

 

[Old Rocks]

City of Klamath Falls :: Geothermal Utility

Geothermal Utility

The City of Klamath Falls Geothermal Utility provides cost effective heating services utilizing a renewable, non-polluting "green" resource. The City of Klamath Falls is located in a Known Geothermal Resource Area (KGRA). Utilizing geothermal water supplied from wells producing 200-220 degree water, the City operates a geothermal utility system which provides heating services to commercial and government buildings throughout the downtown core area as well as geothermal sidewalk and bridge snow melt systems. The sidewalk and bridge snow melt systems provide safety and convenience throughout the winter months that would not be obtainable without low cost geothermal energy.

A significant benefit of geothermal heating is the reduced energy costs compared to alternate heating sources. As other heating sources continue to experience substantial cost increases, the cost of providing geothermal heat remains low along with providing a much higher heating efficiency than other heat sources.

Contact Information

 

[mdn2000]

City of Klamath Falls :: Geothermal Utility

Geothermal Utility

The City of Klamath Falls Geothermal Utility provides cost effective heating services utilizing a renewable, non-polluting "green" resource. The City of Klamath Falls is located in a Known Geothermal Resource Area (KGRA). Utilizing geothermal water supplied from wells producing 200-220 degree water, the City operates a geothermal utility system which provides heating services to commercial and government buildings throughout the downtown core area as well as geothermal sidewalk and bridge snow melt systems. The sidewalk and bridge snow melt systems provide safety and convenience throughout the winter months that would not be obtainable without low cost geothermal energy.

A significant benefit of geothermal heating is the reduced energy costs compared to alternate heating sources. As other heating sources continue to experience substantial cost increases, the cost of providing geothermal heat remains low along with providing a much higher heating efficiency than other heat sources.

Contact Information

Another press release Old Crock, how much does this project cost, how much is the total spent so far so that 20,000 people can have subsidized energy.

so once again we are expected to prove Old Crock's endless useless links as invalid.

another press release.

As near as I can tell with some quick searches this is 99% funded by a Tax grab

Well over $55,000,000, thats a massive amount of money to give to such a tiny population.

 

[mdn2000]

What nerve, what gall, prick, A university is going to save 100k by spending millions of dollars.

So many hidden costs. During the summer of 1983 the following research was all done with taxpayer money, this cost is not included, it is one of the hidden costs.

http://www.osti.gov/geothermal/servlets/purl/894594-rfHKLm/894594.pdf

During the summer of 1983, investigators from several institutions collaborated in an intensive study
of the geothermal resource at Klamath Falls. Funded largely by grants from the U.S. Department of
Energy (DOE), scientists from Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (LBL), Stanford University, and the
Oregon Institute of Technology (OIT) were co-investigators under the terms of a proposal submitted
to DOE by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). Participation by USGS personnel was funded by
the USGS Geothermal Research Program.
The work included tracer studies by Stanford University, a pumping and injection test by LBL,
temperature studies and collection of aquifer-discharge and use data by OIT, and sampling for
chemical analysis by USGS.
The principal objectives of the investigation, as stated in the proposal to DOE, was to acquire "from
the shallow geothermal reservoir at Klamath Falls... chemical and hydraulic data on which to base
predictions of reservoir performance, and an evaluation of potential for development." The major
purpose "is to provide interested parties in Klamath Falls with scientific data to be used to evaluate
alterative for the future of the geothermal resource; a second purpose is to assess potential impacts
of possible alternatives." It is also expected that "knowledge gained in the investigation can be used
to aid in the evaluation of other fault-controlled geothermal systems." Clearly, it is not the purpose
of this study to recommend specific courses of action regarding the development of the geothermal
resource at Klamath Falls; but rather, to provide the scientific data that will be required for decisionmaking
by agencies and citizens in Klamath Falls.
Data

Oregon's budget deficits growing big-time - KTVZ.com Central Oregons News, Weather and Sports Leader -

Oregon's budget deficits growing big-time

Posted: Feb 20, 2009 01:48 PM PST
Oregon's lawmakers, governor got clearer picture Friday of revenue gap - and it wasn't pretty
Governor, lawmakers weigh in on latest bleak figures
From The Associated Press and KTVZ.COM news sources

SALEM (AP) - State Economist Tom Potiowsky says the Oregon budget deficit has grown to $850 million for the current biennium and will top $2.5 billion for 2009-11, forcing even deeper cuts than anticipated.

There is a price to be paid by us in all the other states for Oregon's piss poor energy policy, as you can take Old Crock's word billions of our tax money is going into Oregon's pockets so a university can play in its geothermal puddle, so that Oregon's environuts can have wind farms, all on our dime.

Hope you like the change, the change that is all thats left of your hard earned money.

 

[Randy Mott]

This discussion on geothermal energy does not appear to reflect any professional input.

The inter-personal trash talk is not a very good substitute for knowledge or research.

Using about $1900 per kW for capex, the latest US geothermal generators are among the cheapest renewable sources. No renewable technology at this point can compete with coal or natural gas, but the longer term price situation will definitely narrow the gap.

Google - "power generation options for off-grid, mini-grid" Bigger facilities are also covered.

Go to slide 5 and you can see 2015 projections in relative cost by type of generation capacity.

This gels with our experience in pricing geothermal and biogas in Central Europe.

Randy Mott
CEERES Sp. z o.o.
Warsaw, Poland
(American-owned renewable energy company)

 

[Randy Mott]

Most renewables get competitive at 12 cents/kW. We will see those prices in the future IMO in the commercial market. Places in Europe already are there.

Randy

 

[mdn2000]

This discussion on geothermal energy does not appear to reflect any professional input.


(American-owned renewable energy company)

Actually your comment are way off base, I work in Geothermal plants and have provided hard facts that still stand.

Maybe if your so smart you can actually point out which comment I posted is false.

The idiots and you are one ignore the truth, you calmly wait and post opinion nothing more.

Geothermal is the most expensive energy to produce because its impact on environment is devestating, the amount of materials it takes to keep geothermal plants running is what drives up the cost.

Read all the posts, point out something you can prove wrong.

You simply show yourself to be a hack by ignoring all I have posted in this thread

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are all missing the obvious small scale use of geothermal.

The ground source heat pump is one of the best ways to heat and cool buildings.

If implemented on a large scale, our heating fuel usage could be virtually eliminated and our electrical cooling costs would be slashed.

Just a few feet below the surface, the earth is a constant temperature, between 50 and 75 degrees F, using this one can heat and cool a home.

The only drawback is the compressor used might increase electrical costs slightly but the heat from the compressor can be captured to be used for heating water. And the reduction of heating fuel costs more than makes up for the increased electrical costs.

Couple a large scale use of these systems with a new source of nuclear electricity and we could eliminate the use of fossil fuels for home heating and use emission free electricity for cooling. And the cost of installing a GSHP system in new construction is negligibly more expensive than a traditional gas or oil fired system but the savings in the first few years alone can exceed the cost difference.

One of the problems I see here is that no one thinks about energy and new technologies, not that ground source heat pumps are new, on other than the mega scale projects that would be nearly impossible to implement without billions of dollars.

This combined with new, or in most cases not so new just not utilized construction techniques such as the use of structural insulated panels rather than standard stick frame construction would not only result in stronger, safer buildings and homes but would increase the insulation factor in residential and small to mid sized commercial building from an average of R7 or 9 to R 25 to 40. thereby reducing even further the size and cost of heating and cooling GSHP systems.

Energy Savers: Types of Geothermal Heat Pump Systems

What is Thermocore

It is the simple solutions that will give us the most bang for our bucks here, not the large scale federal projects that will do nothing but cost us trillions of dollars and be plagued with corruption and waste.

 

[Old Rocks]

This discussion on geothermal energy does not appear to reflect any professional input.


(American-owned renewable energy company)

Actually your comment are way off base, I work in Geothermal plants and have provided hard facts that still stand.

Maybe if your so smart you can actually point out which comment I posted is false.

The idiots and you are one ignore the truth, you calmly wait and post opinion nothing more.

Geothermal is the most expensive energy to produce because its impact on environment is devestating, the amount of materials it takes to keep geothermal plants running is what drives up the cost.

Read all the posts, point out something you can prove wrong.

You simply show yourself to be a hack by ignoring all I have posted in this thread

mds, why should anyone answer you? You have proven yourself to be a liar on this and many other subjects.

Geothermal Energy

Economics of Geothermal Energy

Geothermal power plants can produce electricity as cheaply as some conventional power plants. It costs 4.5 to seven cents per kWh to produce electricity from hydrothermal systems. In comparison, new coal-fired plants produce electricity at about four cents per kWh.

Initial construction costs for geothermal power plants are high because geothermal wells and power plants must be constructed at the same time.

But the cost of producing electricity over time is lower because the price and availability of the fuel is stable and predictable. The fuel does not have to be imported or transported to the power plant. The power plant literally sits on top of its fuel source.

Geothermal power plants are also excellent sources of baseload power. Baseload power is power that electric utility companies must deliver all day long. Baseload geothermal plants sell electricity all the time, not only during peakuse times when the demand for electricity is high.

Until recently, utilities were required to buy the least-cost electricity, without regard to environmental impacts. Federal and state energy and environmental agencies are studying ways to give preference to nonpolluting energy sources such as geothermal energy.

 

[Old Rocks]

You are all missing the obvious small scale use of geothermal.

The ground source heat pump is one of the best ways to heat and cool buildings.

If implemented on a large scale, our heating fuel usage could be virtually eliminated and our electrical cooling costs would be slashed.

Just a few feet below the surface, the earth is a constant temperature, between 50 and 75 degrees F, using this one can heat and cool a home.

The only drawback is the compressor used might increase electrical costs slightly but the heat from the compressor can be captured to be used for heating water. And the reduction of heating fuel costs more than makes up for the increased electrical costs.

Couple a large scale use of these systems with a new source of nuclear electricity and we could eliminate the use of fossil fuels for home heating and use emission free electricity for cooling. And the cost of installing a GSHP system in new construction is negligibly more expensive than a traditional gas or oil fired system but the savings in the first few years alone can exceed the cost difference.

One of the problems I see here is that no one thinks about energy and new technologies, not that ground source heat pumps are new, on other than the mega scale projects that would be nearly impossible to implement without billions of dollars.

This combined with new, or in most cases not so new just not utilized construction techniques such as the use of structural insulated panels rather than standard stick frame construction would not only result in stronger, safer buildings and homes but would increase the insulation factor in residential and small to mid sized commercial building from an average of R7 or 9 to R 25 to 40. thereby reducing even further the size and cost of heating and cooling GSHP systems.

Energy Savers: Types of Geothermal Heat Pump Systems

What is Thermocore

It is the simple solutions that will give us the most bang for our bucks here, not the large scale federal projects that will do nothing but cost us trillions of dollars and be plagued with corruption and waste.

Your point concerning the use of geo-systems for heating and cooling buildings is well taken.

However, your point concerning the government spending trillions for geothermal electrical generation is way off base. While the government does give subsidies to alternative energy projects, they have yet to match the subsidies given to the fossil fuel industry. And the alternative energy projects are being built by private investment, companies like Northwestern Wind Power.

In Southeastern Oregon, we have an area of several thousand square miles, very sparsely inhabited, that has high potential for wind, solar, thermal solar, and geothermal. One grid line to pick up all of that.

 

[mdn2000]

Old Crock goes off half cocked, you are a big joke. You really fucked up with your posts and your easily proven lack of understanding of your own material.

The article you site does not state that geothermal is cheaper, its the headline you cherry picked that is misleading. Read the whole article fool.

Just three sites that show your cherry picking of that article to be incorrect. As the Scientific American article stated, Geothermal is the biggest untapped resource we have at present.

If I read the Scientific America article its easy to see you did not read the article, just the headline. Lets look at who Scientific America uses as a source. Within this paragraph on the second page is a link to a 2005 paper.

Other sources dispute this number—Glitnir bank, a financier of geothermal in Iceland and elsewhere, claims that geothermal plants are operational up to 95 percent of the time, and a 2005 paper (pdf) by academics in the field claims that in aggregate, geothermal plants in the U.S. produce power about 80 percent of the time

Here is the title of the paper with its authors:

The United States of America Country Update
John W. Lund1, R. Gordon Bloomquist2, Tonya L. Boyd1, Joel Renner3
1Geo-Heat Center, Oregon Institute of Technology, Klamath Falls, OR
2Washington State University Energy Program, Olympia, WA
3Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory, Idaho Falls, ID

If you go to the Bibliography of the GEA report and look at the very first source we find its Gordon Bloomquist.

So who is incorrect, who is going off half cocked. Tell us how Bloomquist proves Bloomquist is incorrect.

This is why I call people morons, its because some people are morons.

This report is the result of a long research project that involved many geothermal stakeholders and industry experts. These persons helped explain how various and complex parameters affecting the cost of geothermal power development and production may be. I specially want to thank:
Gordon Bloomquist for the collaboration, data sharing, advice and comments he provided throughout several research phases.

Old Crock has yet to prove anyone a liar, Old Crock simply calls people liars, in this very thread I used Old Crocks own source to show that Geothermal is a weak, inexpensive, polluting source of power.

Anyone care to dispute anything I posted by quoting and having a discussion.

 

[mdn2000]

Doodeee, you are the one that mentioned the 'China Sydrone', not I. I realize that you are not up to speed on the Gen 3 nukes. They are incapable of the 'China Syndrone'.

The problem is that we are seeing the huge cost overruns that we saw in the 70s and 80s. At $3500 per kw. you are well above the present prices for wind and geo-thermal.

But Old Crock, in this thread your source states geothermal is too expensive, are you ignoring your own source, you know, the MIT study

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1680144

Yet Old Criock attempted to discredit the Article and link I posted, Old Crock has yet to go my source and show us what Old Crock is refering to.



So Old Crock, you must agree the cost of Geothermal is too high, will result in higher electrical rates, that tax payer money will be given to corporations to make a profit. That costs will have to be hidden to even make Geothermal look feasible. All Old Crocks sources say this.

Old Crock all your source say exactly what I say, I went to the MIT study, again you did not read it. Let me cut and paste from Old Crocks sources.

Read the report than read aritcles quoting the report, the media is cherry picking and OLD CROCK IS CHERRY PICKING THE CHERRY PICKERS.

http://geothermal.inel.gov/publications/future_of_geothermal_energy.pdf



All Old Crock is doing is proving that to sell Geothermal to the public the environuts must cherry pick source and count on people to be stupid, lazy, and ignorant. As long as people are stupid enough to believe Geothermal is good and as long as people are lazy enough not to read the studies the environuts source, than people will remain ingnorant.

So once again, for the third time, Old Crock has cherry picked a source.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are all missing the obvious small scale use of geothermal.

The ground source heat pump is one of the best ways to heat and cool buildings.

If implemented on a large scale, our heating fuel usage could be virtually eliminated and our electrical cooling costs would be slashed.

Just a few feet below the surface, the earth is a constant temperature, between 50 and 75 degrees F, using this one can heat and cool a home.

The only drawback is the compressor used might increase electrical costs slightly but the heat from the compressor can be captured to be used for heating water. And the reduction of heating fuel costs more than makes up for the increased electrical costs.

Couple a large scale use of these systems with a new source of nuclear electricity and we could eliminate the use of fossil fuels for home heating and use emission free electricity for cooling. And the cost of installing a GSHP system in new construction is negligibly more expensive than a traditional gas or oil fired system but the savings in the first few years alone can exceed the cost difference.

One of the problems I see here is that no one thinks about energy and new technologies, not that ground source heat pumps are new, on other than the mega scale projects that would be nearly impossible to implement without billions of dollars.

This combined with new, or in most cases not so new just not utilized construction techniques such as the use of structural insulated panels rather than standard stick frame construction would not only result in stronger, safer buildings and homes but would increase the insulation factor in residential and small to mid sized commercial building from an average of R7 or 9 to R 25 to 40. thereby reducing even further the size and cost of heating and cooling GSHP systems.

Energy Savers: Types of Geothermal Heat Pump Systems

What is Thermocore

It is the simple solutions that will give us the most bang for our bucks here, not the large scale federal projects that will do nothing but cost us trillions of dollars and be plagued with corruption and waste.

Your point concerning the use of geo-systems for heating and cooling buildings is well taken.

However, your point concerning the government spending trillions for geothermal electrical generation is way off base. While the government does give subsidies to alternative energy projects, they have yet to match the subsidies given to the fossil fuel industry. And the alternative energy projects are being built by private investment, companies like Northwestern Wind Power.

In Southeastern Oregon, we have an area of several thousand square miles, very sparsely inhabited, that has high potential for wind, solar, thermal solar, and geothermal. One grid line to pick up all of that.

Wind and solar are two of the most inefficient ways to produce electricity. A PV solar panel is only 10-15% efficient in real world application

There will be nothing but higher electric rates if we plan on using solar on a large scale. We have a clean ready to use source of electricity with proven safe technology that can be buried underground and be out of the way but we refuse to use it now in lieu of pie in the sky multi-acre solar and wind plants that will be naught but an eyesore while wasting potentially usable acreage.

Do you really want to see acres and acres of windmills and solar panels everywhere you look? So much for America the beautiful.

 

[mdn2000]

Skull Pilot, you are right, I have a friend that uses a heat pump and he says it works great.

People like Old Crock do care about little heat pumps though, Old Crock is part of a greater people on the Left Coast who know what is best for everyone else, the Left Coast wants to turn the USA into a third world country, Old Crock wants everyone to pay extremely high electric bills, Old Crock believes you people deserve to lose your job, Old Crock believes the USA needs to punished.

Its a shame, alternative energy only makes the rich richer and the poor poorer the government more powerful.

Geothermal on a commercial scale is a weak power source that is extremely expensive and extremely polluting.

I re--read all I posted here, its all fact that I post, Old Crock hides from the facts and than calls others liars from under Old Crock's rock.

In California electrical rates have already more than doubled and now water rates are doubling. Most the electricity in California goes to pumping water hence the more expensive polluting alternative energy used the more expensive it costs to drink water, that is unless your an illegal alien who crossed the mexican border, the illegal aliens get their water for free, they are on welfare, illegal aliens dont buy the food they eat, the water they drink, or the electricity they use, its all free, or at least its taken from me and you and given to them.

Alternative energy policies is a good example of this, tax the middle class, raise our electrical rates, raise our water cost.

Oregon is one of the most subsidized states in the entire nation. Oregon imports electricity from the coal producers to the east and than uses Federal tax money taken out of our pockets to build the polluting wind farms, the politicians in Oregon than make political speeches claiming they are green and clean, nothing but liars. Using coal power from outside the state while pontificating the virtues of the tax payer subsidized weak green power sources such as wind and geothermal.

The Left Coast believe the earth would be better off if you were dead, they write books with this theme.

Everyone is bad except Old Crock and his friends.

 

[mdn2000]

Seems like Old Crock wants to talk about Geothermal at the same time he ignores Geothermal.

 

[Old Rocks]

mdn, old sot, have you not noticed that we have a few big dams in Oregon? A little outfit called BPA? As far as the federal money is concerned, we are one of two states that get one dollar back for every dollar we send. Unlike most red states, we pay our own way.